MHA not happy with HAL-made choppers, wants more bidders

[indian_foxhound]

The proposal to procure indigenous helicopters for paramilitary forces has run into rough weather with the home ministry (MHA) insisting that more than one vendor should take part in the bidding.

The ministry had earlier decided that state-run HAL would supply 12 ALH Dhruvs for use in medical emergencies and for operations in Jammu & Kashmir, the northeast and against Maoist extremists.

MHA officials said they were consulting the IAF but want the best chopper for paramilitary forces. The MHA position contradicts that of the defence ministry which insists on choppers manufactured by Indian companies while the armed forces prefer global vendors.

A senior MHA official said the BSF had procured the ALH and was not happy with it. “We want more manufacturers to participate so that we can buy a better product. there are recurring problems and high maintenance with ALH. In some cases, it takes more than a year for HAL to deliver the the aircraft sent for maintenance,” the official said.

The MHA wants other companies that make helicopters similar to the ALH to bid for the deal. “This will also mean we can ask for certain specifications in the aircraft to suit the operational recruitment of our forces,” he added.

The ministry decided to get choppers for paramilitary forces after they complained that they had to depend on the IAF’s services and there was little or no cooperation from the Air Force.

This was highlighted by the controversy in January when IAF personnel left behind an injured constable in a helicopter that had crash-landed in Chhattisgarh after Naxalites had fired at it.

Paramilitary choppers can also be used to ferry personnel who have to travel long distances to reach home when they get short breaks.

MHA not happy with HAL-made choppers, wants more bidders | idrw.org

 

[SR-91]

What happened to MAKE INDIAN, BUY INDIAN policy?

Tell the Home Minister that he would get One, 10 million dollar mansion for every HAL-made chopper, in a country of his choice.Wait-a-minute, i wanna sweeten-up the deal.....If the Ministry orders more than 25 choppers,ministry would get one gori-gori champa chameli ...... MOOFT MOOFT MOOFT!!!

How many orders do u guys think, HAL will get? I swear on Rahul Gandhi's life, all the so called "ISSUES" with ALH will disappear.

 

[sasi]

What happened to MAKE INDIAN, BUY INDIAN policy?

Tell the Home Minister that he would get One, 10 million dollar mansion for every HAL-made chopper, in a country of his choice.Wait-a-minute, i wanna sweeten-up the deal.....If the Ministry orders more than 25 choppers,ministry would get one gori-gori champa chameli ...... MOOFT MOOFT MOOFT!!!

How many orders do u guys think, HAL will get? I swear on Rahul Gandhi's life, all the so called "ISSUES" with ALH will disappear.

That is the problem, u see in congra$$ they always share their pie with MADAMJI!
He wants 2 mansion one for himself in switz and other for his MADAMJI in Italy.
Hal should consider opening up a BRIBE division.

 

[OrionHunter]

A senior MHA official said the BSF had procured the ALH and was not happy with it.

A fookin' excuse to make more bribe money from foreign vendors! Idiots! The choppers did a wonderful job during the recent massive evacuation operation in Uttarakhand flying hundreds of sorties without any technical problem!

And WTF does a babu sitting in the MHA know about choppers? A$$holes!

 

[SRP]

What they want is more bribe. When army and air force are more than happy with this bird, our great MHA is not happy with its performance. Pocket khali ho raha hai. Isliye they want more bribe to feed their pockets.

 

[SirHatesALot]

What they want is more bribe. When army and air force are more than happy with this bird, our great MHA is not happy with its performance. Pocket khali ho raha hai. Isliye they want more bribe to feed their pockets.

May be MHA thinks that HAL may not be able to deliver them on time considering HAL already has prior orders to fulfill the requirement of army.

 

[Manindra]

A fookin' excuse to make more bribe money from foreign vendors! Idiots! The choppers did a wonderful job during the recent massive evacuation operation in Uttarakhand flying hundreds of sorties without any technical problem!

And WTF does a babu sitting in the MHA know about choppers? A$$holes!

Other member jump to criticise MHA without knowledge but you are a senior member. The question answers in same news that why MHA is not happy with HAL. First after long waiting the delivered rotorcraft then there sale after sevice is pathetic that they took near about 1 year to deliver a rotorcraft which send to maintainence.

Try your example, you want to buy a car & you have two option either Indian or foreign. If Indian car has very long waiting after that you purchase Indian car but their sale after service is very low standard & very that they your car after 3 month which you send them for maintainence. After this experiance I think you didn't want that company's product again then you have only one option go to foreign's car.

 

[Sergi]

Wow why everybody is being RAMBO here ???

Few things
- what does "not happy about it" means ??? The bird proved its metal over the years so MHA should be more clear on what they/BSF are not happy about it.
- Maintenance - one year is freaking long. Agreed. So whats logic in instead of forcing PSU to speed up or open new maintenance point buy another "non desi" platform ( increased cost ) and their service station ( cost ) ??? You are god dam MHA stood on their head and they will listen to you not wining.
- Requirement - only air ambulance not a assault platform. so what other platform will be offering in the name of advantage and at what cost ??? Money isnt worth life agree but if ALH is doing the job and only problem being maintance just buy more or set up your own maintanince shop with the help of private player.
- I am never against our forces ( IA/IN/IAF ) demanding best of best. But least our internal forces should support home industry.
-

 

[DARKY]

Other member jump to criticise MHA without knowledge but you are a senior member. The question answers in same news that why MHA is not happy with HAL. First after long waiting the delivered rotorcraft then there sale after sevice is pathetic that they took near about 1 year to deliver a rotorcraft which send to maintainence.

Try your example, you want to buy a car & you have two option either Indian or foreign. If Indian car has very long waiting after that you purchase Indian car but their sale after service is very low standard & very that they your car after 3 month which you send them for maintainence. After this experiance I think you didn't want that company's product again then you have only one option go to foreign's car.

Why is that only MHA and Paramilitary experiences such issues and not other customers like Armed Forces or even overseas ones like Ecuador ?... which is over 10000s kms from India and in a distant land.

You can buy the Indian car or the Foreign car but you still have to know how to drive it and drive it proper and do basic maintenance you cannot go running to the service provider for every small scratch or bump you make due to rash handling... may be with the car but certainly not with the choppers you need a good maintenance wing... and pilots[proper pilots].


No pilots

â??No pilot, chopper lies idle at Raipur - Times Of India

And No proper pilot.

More than a year after a BSF chopper on anti-Naxal duty crashed near Khunti, Jharkhand, a probe by a panel of aviation experts has found that the pilots were not properly trained and their 'knowledge of the helicopter systems was inadequate'.

"The crew had limited experience and inadequate exposure to Instrument Flight Rules operations. They had also not undergone simulator training for instrument flying or handling of critical emergencies. The crew's knowledge of the helicopter systems was inadequate," the report submitted to the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) said.

BSF pilots ill-trained to fly copters: crash report - Indian Express

Now other than looking into the thing seriously and see the real motive behind the deal... you as usual like a real Babu **** sucker could not resist wagging tail in their favor... It is people like you why the real tax payers money goes in the drain and to the babu sewer.

 

[Manindra]

Why is that only MHA and Paramilitary experiences such issues and not other customers like Armed Forces or even overseas ones like Ecuador ?... which is over 10000s kms from India and in a distant land.

You can buy the Indian car or the Foreign car but you still have to know how to drive it and drive it proper and do basic maintenance you cannot go running to the service provider for every small scratch or bump you make due to rash handling... may be with the car but certainly not with the choppers you need a good maintenance wing... and pilots[proper pilots].


No pilots

â??No pilot, chopper lies idle at Raipur - Times Of India

And No proper pilot.






BSF pilots ill-trained to fly copters: crash report - Indian Express

Now other than looking into the thing seriously and see the real motive behind the deal... you as usual like a real Babu **** sucker could not resist wagging tail in their favor... It is people like you why the real tax payers money goes in the drain and to the babu sewer.

Armed forces have separate overhaulling facility which MHA lacks & same goes to training of pilots so both responsibility will done by HAL which they fail. For Ecuador HAL try to catch up Latin American market so they give them good service but they neglects domestic market.
Same MHA have Bell or Eurocopter but they have not many problem like HAL.

 

[DARKY]

Armed forces have separate overhaulling facility which MHA lacks & same goes to training of pilots so both responsibility will done by HAL which they fail. For Ecuador HAL try to catch up Latin American market so they give them good service but they neglects domestic market.
Same MHA have Bell or Eurocopter but they have not many problem like HAL.

Is there any clause for that ?

Or does your car manufacturer train you for driving the car also.

What is being considered here is a military machine with about 1400hp engine... It is so easy to get out of the safe flight envelop and do something stupid.... Unless there is a proper flying culture in MHA and BSF issues will persist and problems will occur.. It is not that they will fly these choppers only for an year or two... or would have a completely different machine in the long run.. hence the manufacturer training the pilot is absurd much like 3rd world countries and arabs who buy soviet machinery and and get training from soviets and blame them for crash and improper service due to rash handling and no maintanance department at all.

According to you even If the tax payers money is flown in drain and another scam and bribe deal goes through with some foreign vendor ending up in the deal scrapped the mid may and the vendor black listed putting an end to 100s of other deals and developmental efforts with the armed forces involving that company.

How convenient and cost effective do you think would be to get that chopper being sent for acquaintance 1000s of Km some foreign land ?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

May be MHA thinks that HAL may not be able to deliver them on time considering HAL already has prior orders to fulfill the requirement of army.

That is one reason; the HAL production line has 'bottle-necked' now. Apart from that; there are serious issues with Spares SCMS. That is the bigger reason. The IAF and IA have in-house maintenenance units at least for 1st line and 2nd line maint. The MHA and Paramilitary units have nothing and will be completely at HAL's mercy.

Apart from that it is just laughable to see the childish comments here that can see BSP, BJP, RLD, INC NCP etc etc in this matter which is simply based on technical issues!

 

[Manindra]

Is there any clause for that ?

Or does your car manufacturer train you for driving the car also.

What is being considered here is a military machine with about 1400hp engine... It is so easy to get out of the safe flight envelop and do something stupid.... Unless there is a proper flying culture in MHA and BSF issues will persist and problems will occur.. It is not that they will fly these choppers only for an year or two... or would have a completely different machine in the long run.. hence the manufacturer training the pilot is absurd much like 3rd world countries and arabs who buy soviet machinery and and get training from soviets and blame them for crash and improper service due to rash handling and no maintanance department at all.

According to you even If the tax payers money is flown in drain and another scam and bribe deal goes through with some foreign vendor ending up in the deal scrapped the mid may and the vendor black listed putting an end to 100s of other deals and developmental efforts with the armed forces involving that company.

How convenient and cost effective do you think would be to get that chopper being sent for acquaintance 1000s of Km some foreign land ?

In these kind of machines deal included with training, spare parts & limited time maintainence & warrantty, in which HAL miserably failed.