Meet Owj: Iran’s First Indigenous Fighter Jet Engine

[NaCon]

Iran produced that coating long before interception of RQ-170.

Any proof that iran managed to reverse engineer the stealth coating found on the RQ-170.

I still think Qaher with its wing configuration was a surprise antiship missile carrying vehicle. I think it was suppose to fly low to surface just like the flying boats (Ground Effect Vehicle) and carry passive sensors and anti ship cruise missiles beyond the 300km range of the coast. Unlike the current fleet of flying boats, this would take off from San air base and then drop to low altitude as it gets closer to its targets... But I'm just speculating with nothing to back it up. But I'm approaching it from asymmetrical doctrine of IRGC, it makes sense for this to be another antiship killing vessel.

this is the stupidest idea I have ever heard firing a 300 km cruise missile off of a speed-boat or from land is by far less costly, more stealthy effective and survivable than firing from a fighter jet. its just a waste of money and time.
It's more important to reverse engineer and improve the engine of a mig-29 or/and buy a number of Su-35s with ToT.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Any proof that iran managed to reverse engineer the stealth coating found on the RQ-170.


this is the stupidest idea I have ever heard firing a 300 km cruise missile off of a speed-boat or from land is by far less costly, more stealthy effective and survivable than firing from a fighter jet. its just a waste of money and time.
It's more important to reverse engineer and improve the engine of a mig-29 or/and buy a number of Su-35s with ToT.

Simple minded need some Propaganda hope..to Keep the power flowing... and keep the sheep in line. Basic Totalitarian Regime 101

 

[mohsen]

Any proof that iran managed to reverse engineer the stealth coating found on the RQ-170.

You mean beside of the videos of our drones flying over American ships undetected?

Iran owned this technology even before the capture of RQ170, and as our commander said today it's U.S which is trying to catch with us in stealth drones and not the otherwise.

 

[arashkamangir]

Any proof that iran managed to reverse engineer the stealth coating found on the RQ-170.


this is the stupidest idea I have ever heard firing a 300 km cruise missile off of a speed-boat or from land is by far less costly, more stealthy effective and survivable than firing from a fighter jet. its just a waste of money and time.
It's more important to reverse engineer and improve the engine of a mig-29 or/and buy a number of Su-35s with ToT.

The range of a speed boat is limited to near coastal waters. A flying boat will can extend the engagement range of the cruise missiles beyond the 300 KM limit especially in case of engaging targets beyond Oman sea. A plane that could fly efficiently at extremely low altitude, Ground Effect Vehicle, can address such problems that both high flying conventional planes would have (early detection by radar) and limited range (in speed boat) and quantity of larger vessels of current Iranian fleet.

Current fleet of Iranian flying boats are extremely cheap and can carry anti ship cruise missiles. They are cheap because of simple design and lack of requirement for taking off and landing on land. If IRGCN has evaluated that such a plane with such capabilities is feasible, then you could expect one.

 

[Arminkh]

Any proof that iran managed to reverse engineer the stealth coating found on the RQ-170.

Here are some related publicized researches:

http://en.iscanews.ir/news/563975

https://www.ijsr.in/upload/736372385 PAPER ABBASI 2.pdf
This is from "Malik Ashtar University" which is a military university.

I'm not sure if this is the same that has been used in RQ-170 but Iran has been researching these materials for a very long time.

 

[NaCon]

You mean beside of the videos of our drones flying over American ships undetected?

Iran owned this technology even before the capture of RQ170, and as our commander said today it's U.S which is trying to catch with us in stealth drones and not the otherwise.

Who said they were undetected?

Here are some related publicized researches:

http://en.iscanews.ir/news/563975

https://www.ijsr.in/upload/736372385 PAPER ABBASI 2.pdf
This is from "Malik Ashtar University" which is a military university.

I'm not sure if this is the same that has been used in RQ-170 but Iran has been researching these materials for a very long time.

anybody can write a paper. its one thing to write a paper and another to apply the technology on a usable product.
Iran right now is using composite materials like carbon fibre for stealth which is stealthy compared to aluminium steal and titanium but is nowhere near as stealthy as the coating used on RQ-170, F35, F22, etc.

 

[mohsen]

Who said they were undetected?

right, the harmless U.S navy!
fire warning shots when Iranian boats move close to them , but not afraid when an unknown drone is flying right above their ship!

 

[NaCon]

right, the harmless U.S navy!
fire warning shots when Iranian boats move close to them , but not afraid when an unknown drone is flying right above their ship!

if they're gonna shoot at every drone, ship, aircraft that comes near there ships then they would have went to war with iran, china, north korea, and Russia a long time ago.

 

[mohsen]

if they're gonna shoot at every drone, ship, aircraft that comes near there ships then they would have went to war with iran, china, north korea, and Russia a long time ago.

so that's why they didn't shoot down Hezbollah's drone "Ayoub" in the Mediterranean sea?! to avoid war with Hizbollah?!
so you mean if those boats would get closer, Americans wouldn't dare to do anything beyond warning shots? isn't it like a joke?
a drone above them doesn't even need a warning shot?!
not even whining in their media (like always)?!
so gentleman!

 

[Arminkh]

Who said they were undetected?


anybody can write a paper. its one thing to write a paper and another to apply the technology on a usable product.
Iran right now is using composite materials like carbon fibre for stealth which is stealthy compared to aluminium steal and titanium but is nowhere near as stealthy as the coating used on RQ-170, F35, F22, etc.

It is not just a paper, both of them are about fabrication of nanocomposite materials that can absorb electromagnetic waves.

How do you know what coating is used on RQ-170, F35 and F22 and whether their specs are any better than what is mentioned in these articles?

 

[VEVAK]

Any proof that iran managed to reverse engineer the stealth coating found on the RQ-170.


this is the stupidest idea I have ever heard firing a 300 km cruise missile off of a speed-boat or from land is by far less costly, more stealthy effective and survivable than firing from a fighter jet. its just a waste of money and time.
It's more important to reverse engineer and improve the engine of a mig-29 or/and buy a number of Su-35s with ToT.

The range of a speed boat is limited to near coastal waters. A flying boat will can extend the engagement range of the cruise missiles beyond the 300 KM limit especially in case of engaging targets beyond Oman sea. A plane that could fly efficiently at extremely low altitude, Ground Effect Vehicle, can address such problems that both high flying conventional planes would have (early detection by radar) and limited range (in speed boat) and quantity of larger vessels of current Iranian fleet.

Current fleet of Iranian flying boats are extremely cheap and can carry anti ship cruise missiles. They are cheap because of simple design and lack of requirement for taking off and landing on land. If IRGCN has evaluated that such a plane with such capabilities is feasible, then you could expect one.

1st off firing 300km Anti-ship cruise missile from a fighter jet extends the range of the missile beyond Iran's boarders & increases survivability not reduces it!
It's much harder to track, target & hit a high speed fighter jet from over 200km away than it is hitting a ground or sea target

2ndly Iran's Q-313 will NOT be able to carry even a 100km air launched anti ship cruise missile let alone a 300km one

Here is a 300km Ghader Cruise Missile on an F-4 (clearly a Q-313 will NOT be able to carry such a weapon)

Not even an F-5 or Saegheh would be able to carry such a large weapon let alone the Q-313 powered by a single J-85

At best Q-313 would be able to carry an Air Launched version of the Nasr or Kowsar & that means it would need to get within 30km that means even if the Q-313 was a full stealth fighter (Which it is NOT) it would be detected by early warning systems & targeted by IR & Optical sensors long before it could get within firing range so you would be better off using a UAV to do that job!

Unless produced in the 1000's the Q-313 powered by a single J-85 would be too weak to have any military application against countries that possess an Air Force!

For long range Air Launched Anti-ship cruise missiles Iran will use high speed fighters that can approach at high speeds fire & run back to a safe zone protected by Air Defense systems they will use F-4's for targets within ~600km & Su-24's for targets beyond 600km

I very much like the Q-313 design but the fact is that unless Iran makes major modifications and turns that fighter into a bigger & more powerful fighter it's military applications will be limited to anti terrorist operations or at best close air support for troops on the ground using light weapons that even UAV's can fire!

 

[AmirPatriot]

It's much harder to track, target & hit a high speed fighter jet from over 200km away than it is hitting a ground or sea target

Wrt Iran, this is wrong.

Iran's terrain makes it really easy to hide concealed launchers in caves, alcoves and man made tunnels. And these concealed launchers will be in SAM coverage.

An aircraft mounted missile grants just one major advantage and that is to increase range.

 

[arashkamangir]

1st off firing 300km Anti-ship cruise missile from a fighter jet extends the range of the missile beyond Iran's boarders & increases survivability not reduces it!
It's much harder to track, target & hit a high speed fighter jet from over 200km away than it is hitting a ground or sea target

2ndly Iran's Q-313 will NOT be able to carry even a 100km air launched anti ship cruise missile let alone a 300km one

Here is a 300km Ghader Cruise Missile on an F-4 (clearly a Q-313 will NOT be able to carry such a weapon)
View attachment 382999

Not even an F-5 or Saegheh would be able to carry such a large weapon let alone the Q-313 powered by a single J-85

At best Q-313 would be able to carry an Air Launched version of the Nasr or Kowsar & that means it would need to get within 30km that means even if the Q-313 was a full stealth fighter (Which it is NOT) it would be detected by early warning systems & targeted by IR & Optical sensors long before it could get within firing range so you would be better off using a UAV to do that job!

Unless produced in the 1000's the Q-313 powered by a single J-85 would be too weak to have any military application against countries that possess an Air Force!

For long range Air Launched Anti-ship cruise missiles Iran will use high speed fighters that can approach at high speeds fire & run back to a safe zone protected by Air Defense systems they will use F-4's for targets within ~600km & Su-24's for targets beyond 600km

I very much like the Q-313 design but the fact is that unless Iran makes major modifications and turns that fighter into a bigger & more powerful fighter it's military applications will be limited to anti terrorist operations or at best close air support for troops on the ground using light weapons that even UAV's can fire!

I too agree that at its current configuration as demonstrated in the mock up, where you cant event fit a pilot and with the small air intakes, the plane wouldn't be able to carry the mission stated above or fly without a powerful engine (we don't know much about its lift surface area) However, in any real program preliminary design flaws will change and if Qaher is a real project, we are expecting it to change... If we are to go with my speculated semi concept of operations, the engine needs to be turbo fan for efficient fuel consumption at low altitudes and we are not there yet.

 

[VEVAK]

Wrt Iran, this is wrong.

Iran's terrain makes it really easy to hide concealed launchers in caves, alcoves and man made tunnels. And these concealed launchers will be in SAM coverage.

An aircraft mounted missile grants just one major advantage and that is to increase range.

of course this is strictly for targets beyond 300km of Iranian soil!!! within 300km it makes no sense to risk a fighter jet with a heavily trained pilot! That's the last thing you would want to do! But for targets beyond 300km the safest bet is air launched from a high speed fighter!

 

[VEVAK]

I too agree that at its current configuration as demonstrated in the mock up, where you cant event fit a pilot and with the small air intakes, the plane wouldn't be able to carry the mission stated above or fly without a powerful engine (we don't know much about its lift surface area) However, in any real program preliminary design flaws will change and if Qaher is a real project, we are expecting it to change... If we are to go with my speculated semi concept of operations, the engine needs to be turbo fan for efficient fuel consumption at low altitudes and we are not there yet.

Unfortunately, the Q-313 has turned into the heroin of Iran's fighter program. It's supporters want Iran to produce it because it will make them feel good without any regard to what it's side effects will be on future Iranian fighter programs.
Iran has been producing parts for the F-5 / Saegheh for years and for Iran to fund a project to produce a fighter that's weaker & slower than the Saegheh is absurd
Fact is after the Saegheh for Iran to produce a fighter that has less than 20,000 lbf of dry thrust is not only pointless but also a mistake

Until Iran is able to produce an engine powerful enough for a real fighter they should stick to upgrading the most advanced platform they are currently able to produce

For now Saegheh & Azarakhsh are suitable platforms to work on and upgrading them would have been the correct process to go threw till they develop a more powerful engine. Instead of wasting time & money on useless project they need to develop and added

1.IRST
2.Helmot Mounted HUD
3.Air Refueling capability
4.More advanced radars & Sensors
5.Glass cockpit & MFD
6.Laser countermeasures for blinding enemy IRST & incoming IR missiles
7.More advanced weapons systems, weapons & PGM capability.
8.Optical & radar Terrain counter mapping for an internal navigation system
9. HOTAS (Hands on Throttle & Stick)
10. More advanced FOF with a more advanced data link & ability to connect to & transmit data to other aircraft & UAV's
11. Reducing cockpit & canopy RCS
12. 2D Thrust vectoring

If instead of wasting time & money on building a useless platform they were working on those upgrades on the current platform they already have they next platform they would have built would have been a formidable fighter that would have been designed around those capabilities from the start!