Meet our demands, else we'll convert to Islam, say UP Dalits

[AshishDelhi]

1. That's a long discussion and I don't really have the patience to repeat what has been said many number of times.

2. No, You don't. Those who did not wanted to live have left and those who decided to stay belong to this land and this land belongs to them...

If you are original inhabitants, so are we. It doesn't matter whether we converted or not. In your loony swamy's own words, our ancestors were Hindus/Buddhists and they converted. So you giving examples of Americas is misplaced. My question is quite simple... How is it justified that Hindus SC/ST/OBC can enjoy reservation(Even a developed group like Marathas get reservation) but when it comes backwards among muslims, you suddenly develop a cold feet...

Well I have a similar case to say, yes one should get reservation based on one's financial background regardless of his religion/caste.... But if backwards of Hindu religion can get reservation then why should backwards of muslims/Christians not get it....? And please don't come back with, muslims don't have caste system. Yes muslims don't have caste system and that is the reason they are not differentiated when they enter mosques, they can lead prayers, worship side by side(Yes there is no discrimination in religion but their financial status doesn't change with their change of religion). So when it comes to citizen rights, it is Government's responsibility to look after its citizens...

I agree some what. There are 2 things here. Economic backwardness and social backwardness. Muslims can and do get benefits if they are economically poor. Since they do not have any caste so Indian govt cannot create castes in Islam. That will be interfering in religion. What do you suggest? Should Muslims be identified as different castes..obc, creamy layer, sc, st etc.

 

[The_Showstopper]

I agree some what. There are 2 things here. Economic backwardness and social backwardness. Muslims can and do get benefits if they are economically poor. Since they do not have any caste so Indian govt cannot create castes in Islam. That will be interfering in religion. What do you suggest? Should Muslims be identified as different castes..obc, creamy layer, sc, st etc.

Obviously not, I don't want Caste system neither in Hindus nor in muslims, reservation should only depend on one's financial status irrespective of which caste/religion one belongs to. But my point is, if Hindus are getting it based on caste(may be because the Govt. finds it easier to differentiate), why leave out backward muslims, christians etc out...

 

[Bombermanx1]

1. That's a long discussion and I don't really have the patience to repeat what has been said many number of times.

2. No, You don't. Those who did not wanted to live have left and those who decided to stay belong to this land and this land belongs to them...

If you are original inhabitants, so are we. It doesn't matter whether we converted or not. In your loony swamy's own words, our ancestors were Hindus/Buddhists and they converted. So you giving examples of Americas is misplaced. My question is quite simple... How is it justified that Hindus SC/ST/OBC can enjoy reservation(Even a developed group like Marathas get reservation) but when it comes backwards among muslims, you suddenly develop a cold feet...

Well I have a similar case to say, yes one should get reservation based on one's financial background regardless of his religion/caste.... But if backwards of Hindu religion can get reservation then why should backwards of muslims/Christians not get it....? And please don't come back with, muslims don't have caste system. Yes muslims don't have caste system and that is the reason they are not differentiated when they enter mosques, they can lead prayers, worship side by side(Yes there is no discrimination in religion but their financial status doesn't change with their change of religion). So when it comes to citizen rights, it is Government's responsibility to look after its citizens...

1) Ok we can talk later as you wish.
2) YES,WE DO.We have a unbroken civilization and continuity,those who were meek converted at sword, while we always fought and we still retain that unbroken civilization, infact even Iranis(Parsis) came running to us to escape conversion by sword!
So don't tell me we don't own this land, This is our land and your's too, if you don't feel different from us ,rest i will always call you always as my Brother and sisters. .
3)I gave my explanation in my post read it well, why don't you answer my question?\ What happened to honest work and fighting it out in Merit as everyone else?You are not physically Handicapped ?

 

[AshishDelhi]

Obviously not, I don't want Caste system neither in Hindus nor in muslims, reservation should only depend on one's financial status irrespective of which caste/religion one belongs to. But my point is, if Hindus are getting it based on caste(may be because the Govt. finds it easier to differentiate), why leave out backward muslims, christians etc out...

See as I said you do have a point but IMHO it should not be given. Aim should be to remove slowly for all..even for poor. Reservation based on caste was initially given based on good thoughts and I some what agree to it though in general I will prefer reservations for spl abled only. I hope with time this is what happens.

 

[Hindustani78]

Hope VHP/BJP has already meeting them as i write this post after all it was Dalits who along with jats fought with jihadis in recent riots in western u.p and sent them to rehab camps.

In reality riots took place in that parliamentary constituency which was won by BSP candidate and even BSP leader was shot dead by some unidentified men in Muzaffarnagar on 16th Aug 2014.

Vinod Kumar BSP leader

What was my question and what did you answer?? If Hindu SC/ST can get it, then why not muslims backwards...

And speaking of your post, Let me make one thing quite clear, Hindus don't own the Indian sub-continent that they gave away a piece of land as charity to muslims. Ancestors of Indian muslims chose India as their motherland, no one has a right to take that away from them...

In reality people from backward communities be there from any religion do get help from state and central government in education and bank loans but there is a process for that.

 

[Ranndhawa]

In reality riots took place in that parliamentary constituency which was won by BSP candidate and even BSP leader was shot dead by some unidentified men in Muzaffarnagar on 16th Aug 2014.

Vinod Kumar BSP leader

Muzzafarnagar riots was not limited to the muzzafarnagar dist only but incidents also took place in nearby dist like bagpat and saharanpur and shamali where Dalits were saved by jats and gujars.

 

[Hindustani78]

Muzzafarnagar riots was not limited to the muzzafarnagar dist only but incidents also took place in nearby dist like bagpat and saharanpur and shamali where Dalits were saved by jats and gujars.

People from all the communities have saved each other in Muzaffarnagar riots but we cant deny the number of rape victims were high in Muslim community. Here only it was failure of the UP Government.

The unsung heroes of Muzaffarnagar- an untold story
On September 8, 350 Muslims were given shelter in a building owned by the pradhan and food was cooked right there for them. Similar arrangements were made for them in four houses owned by jats.

 

[The_Showstopper]

See as I said you do have a point but IMHO it should not be given. Aim should be to remove slowly for all..even for poor. Reservation based on caste was initially given based on good thoughts and I some what agree to it though in general I will prefer reservations for spl abled only. I hope with time this is what happens.

I second that....

 

[Ranndhawa]

People from all the communities have saved each other in Muzaffarnagar riots but we cant deny the number of rape victims were high in Muslim community. Here only it was failure of the UP Government.

[rticle/india/the-unsung-heroes-of-muzaffarnagar-an-untold-story-446726"]The unsung heroes of Muzaffarnagar- an untold story[/url]
On September 8, 350 Muslims were given shelter in a building owned by the pradhan and food was cooked right there for them. Similar arrangements were made for them in four houses owned by jats.

Yes may be that's because Muslims are minority in villages. only in urban areas they are in good no.


second reason of rape incident could be that the reason of riots was to save the honour (daughter) of community as there were many cases where girls were harassed by minority boys before the riots.

 

[Hindustani78]

Yes may be that's because Muslims are minority in villages. only in urban areas they are in good no.


second reason of rape incident could be that the reason of riots was to save the honour (daughter) of community as there were many cases where girls were harassed by minority boys before the riots.

Here only the problem lies , If anyone harassed any girl be there from any community then police is there to take care but the gang rapes are not the answer. The sad reality is this that those are all Indian females.

 

[Ranndhawa]

Here only the problem lies , If anyone harassed any girl be there from any community then police is there to take care but the gang rapes are not the answer. The sad reality is this that those are all Indian females.

yes but for police to do their job professionally some environment has to be create at political level which unfortunately is not present in India Atleast in states like U.P

 

[Hindustani78]

yes but for police to do their job professionally some environment has to be create at political level which unfortunately is not present in India Atleast in states like U.P

These are all excuses which we say to ourselves always. Protecting lives of fellow Indians should be above politics and here police should do its work.

Whatever happened in Muzaffarnagar has showed something that communal riots can occur and the State Government cant stop it. It was like Gujarat riots which occurred the same like the communal riots in UP. But why Gujarat CM was blamed for the riots and why the UP CM was not ?

 

[Ranndhawa]

These are all excuses which we say to ourselves always. Protecting lives of fellow Indians should be above politics and here police should do its work.

Whatever happened in Muzaffarnagar has showed something that communal riots can occur and the State Government cant stop it. It was like Gujarat riots which occurred the same like the communal riots in UP. But why Gujarat CM was blamed for the riots and why the UP CM was not ?

Who said C.M of U.P was not blamed i think result of parliament has made it clear and provided a good opportunity to citizens to express their anger.


secondly "blame modi"is just a propaganda as there was not a single riot took place in Gujrat under except the Godhra which again was a action against reaction.

 

[Hindustani78]

Who said C.M of U.P was not blamed i think result of parliament has made it clear and provided a good opportunity to express its anger.

There was not much criticism of UP Government compare to the Gujarat Government.

secondly "blame modi"is just a propaganda as there was not a single riot took place in Gujrat under except the Godhra which again was a action against reaction.

In reality you are right because it was L K Advani behind the Rath Yatra which led to communal tensions in the country and Gujarat CM Modi came into headlines after the Gujarat riots.

 

[Ranndhawa]

There was not much criticism of UP Government compare to the Gujarat Government.




In reality you are right because it was L K Advani behind the Rath Yatra which led to communal tensions in the country and Gujarat CM Modi came into headlines after the Gujarat riots.

I don't know abt you but i think indian media is not mature nor completely free they don't want to bother their political master as they would not get the favours if they do example cheap land ,tax ,political favours etc so the media was on propaganda spree against modi during the last 10 years,but now we see the same media is becoming the biggest "fan" of modi and no body care abt gujrat riots now.



communal "tension" started in India when Hindus raising the genuine rights of majority community which were lying dormant since independence and yes older leadership of BJP played a imp role and modi was probably in Himalayas when rath yatra carried out