Meanwhile in China and India...

[GHALIB]

I think which exam is toughest should not be the defining criteria - it's a competitive exam, always relative marks will come into play. I think as society we should remove the fear of maths from many students, make STEM more interesting. The countries which make STEM more interesting and have more graduates will ultimately lead technologically and economically.
In India we have been producing a fair number of STEM grads but most of the cream have been going out and not contributing much to the nation.d from minds of

we should let the fear of exams shed from minds of students .

 

[magra]

upsc is not toughest , because a single exam tests students from all subjects . on the other hand in IIT all students are tested on common and toughest platform.

We can agree to disagree. I feel UPSC is tougher because of multiple reasons
1. Much wider syllabus
2. You not only need to know stuff but you also need to interpret things your own way and answer
3. Many more candidates giving the exam and far fewer selected, so the success ratio is even less
4. Interview round in UPSC. So someone who is good in writing, but poor in speaking will not get selected.

 

[Goenitz]

Do you know what my profit margins are? I get 100 Rs for 1 dollar I make. I can hire 12 more teams if I want.

Above all, you treat your own self, and your fellows with dignity and respect

If you ask me what you need to solve these problem is to:
1) Improve work ethics.
2) offer on-job training to the employees. (continuous professional development)

And more internships availability for FSc/BSc students. Technically, focus on math has no part in it. As every creative thing will improve your problem solving/analysis powers. @peagle

I know one company (my brother in law works there). They just conduct workshops with some lecture and making Lego structures, to complete a task. This simple exercise increases the productivity, critical thinking and performance of the workforce.

The company charge 20k £ per session. So its no joke. I will find the website and post the link.
Edit: https://www.enhanceltd.com/playnpd/

 

[peagle]

If you ask me what you need to solve these problem is to:
1) Improve work ethics.
2) offer on-job training to the employees. (continuous professional development)

And more internships availability for FSc/BSc students. Technically, focus on math has no part in it. As every creative thing will improve your problem solving/analysis powers. @peagle

I know one company (my brother in law works there). They just conduct workshops with some lecture and making Lego structures, to complete a task. This simple exercise increases the productivity, critical thinking and performance of the workforce.

The company charge 20k £ per session. So its no joke. I will find the website and post the link.
Edit: https://www.enhanceltd.com/playnpd/

This sounds like the German model of education, they seem to follow an academic and vocational route, that's interchangeable I believe and seems to have delivered for them very well. Although the Koreans and the Japanese have a purely academic model with little scope for vocational training and they have done rather well.

Perhaps it is about finding the right mix for your cultural understanding. Hard labour isn't something to be ashamed of in Europe, it's honest hard work of skilled labour. But in Asian societies, which have not followed the gradual developmental path of the Europeans, have jumped straight into the modern world, they still view hard labour differently, and less desirable, perhaps the vocational aspect has less space in which it can operate.

It might be different in Pakistan, so might work, although we have a similar mindset as Japanese in terms of social standards, so hard to say.
Maths is also something that has to be done right from an early age, and @Bilal Khan (Quwa) had some interesting ideas regarding that.

I think if the government can set aside a budget, in partnership with the private sector,

1. We could open a few boarding schools for the gifted, fees would depend on capacity.
2. We establish 3 institutions near each other, so they feed off each other's capabilities.
3. A university that acts as a centre for reverse engineering, so the tax structure and industrial space within the city would work in an ecosystem, where we become fully capable of absorbing existing technologies. (Faisalabad)
4. A university that specialises in modern and future sciences. (Sargodha)
5. A university for pure research, particularly theoretical sciences. (Jahurabad)

The three locations are fairly close to each other, they would work separately, and in a single ecosystem, where suitable facilities would be provided within a policy framework, helping the universities and business to work with and feed off each other. Such a step will also work as a target focal point for students around the country, very soon the quality of students would improve, purely from the sheer numbers who would be trying their hardest to get in, and in reverse, these universities would go around the country, talent hunting.

 

[Goenitz]

his sounds like the German model of education, they seem to follow an academic and vocational route, that's interchangeable I believe and seems to have delivered for them very well. Although the Koreans and the Japanese have a purely academic model with little scope for vocational training and they have done rather well.

Kaya baat ha bhai..
But it will take time for us to understand.
check this.. the mom tore the son's degree as he couldn't repair the fan., which an electricians did in 15 minutes.

Mother Tears Son's Electrical Engineering Degree After He Failed To Repair Fan

Among them, a mom recently raised the bar further when his son, who is an electrical engineer, wasnt able to repair fan.

www.digitalphablet.com

 

[Thorough Pro]

Mostly our education system is rotten, starting with teachers, anyone who can't find any other means of employment, becomes a teacher and ruins the lives of their students as well. the syllabus never changes, its the same thing repeated over an dover again as the people in-charge were also the people who became teachers out of compulsion. Then the system of examination, you get notes from teachers and if you don't reproduce the same thing word for word, you don't get any marks, so there is neither any challenge to the students nor any reward for thinking on their own.

The only thing we need to change is instead of "teaching", the students should be introduced to the idea, concept or thought and encouraged to "think" and express their own original thoughts in their own words.

While we fret over closing schools, and syllabus being too difficult for children, the world is recognizing India and China for the difficulty of their maths tests:

Having studied from the Sindh Textbook Board in Matric and Intermediate, I can testify that these particular questions employ concepts that are taught in grade 12. But, those concepts are not combined in complicated ways like in Chinese/Indian tests. Instead, questions from the textbook are replicated verbatim during final exams. We are not challenging our students into applying the concepts they learn in new and complicated scenarios. And thus, we are creating generation upon generation of mental slaves. This needs to be dealt with on a crisis basis. A national emergency needs to declared to lift the level of our education across the entire country.

DISCLAIMER: My experience of Sindh Textbook Board dates almost a quarter of a century in the past. I have no idea if things have become even worse since then.

 

[Goenitz]

I think if the government can set aside a budget, in partnership with the private sector,

Actually, I am allergic to such system. These are the old ways, but yes beneficial to our types of environment, especially in India. Where quota/socio-economic parity means we need govt funds for talented students.

All we need is to improve our primary system. As we have already a lot of teachers. For universities we need professors.
Anyway, then we need to train those teachers about critical training, how to design assessments, vocational training, how to encourage students, how to model projects/problems etc. Like UK emphasises mainly on primary education. They leave HE to pvt sector, but with tight quality control.

I know focusing primary, will not lead to scientific community, else SriLanka would have been a leader in sciences. So yes, in the end we need HE institutions. However, we need to create quality in our students life as early as possible so from kindergarten to Metric, should be the target.

ts the same thing repeated over an dover again as the people in-charge were also the people who became teachers out of compulsion

In Pakistan, if you cannot find a job, then "chalo yar teacher hi lag jaty hain, bari kaamai ha es ma, aur izzat bhi"

 

[peagle]

Actually, I am allergic to such system. These are the old ways, but yes beneficial to our types of environment, especially in India. Where quota/socio-economic parity means we need govt funds for talented students.

All we need is to improve our primary system. As we have already a lot of teachers. For universities we need professors.
Anyway, then we need to train those teachers about critical training, how to design assessments, vocational training, how to encourage students, how to model projects/problems etc. Like UK emphasises mainly on primary education. They leave HE to pvt sector, but with tight quality control.

I know focusing primary, will not lead to scientific community, else SriLanka would have been a leader in sciences. So yes, in the end we need HE institutions. However, we need to create quality in our students life as early as possible so from kindergarten to Metric, should be the target.


In Pakistan, if you cannot find a job, then "chalo yar teacher hi lag jaty hain, bari kaamai ha es ma, aur izzat bhi"

I would be interested as to why you are allergic to such a system.

The rest, I certainly agree with you, but I'm not sure if we have the time for a full on structured approach, we might need to approach everything at once.

Having a centre of excellence strategy pays dividend in the long term because it creates a brand to which people are attracted. In education, it will differently but will have the same effect, most gain from the least effort.

Once those institutions are established the rest of the country will follow right along.

 

[Goenitz]

Once those institutions are established the rest of the country will follow right along

I agree, that we need 'models' system. So that when we go through such system, it can make a reference/standard for us. but I still think if we focus more on primary education and less on Unis, still in the end we can get great scientists in the end.

I would be interested as to why you are allergic to such a system.

Our mindset. as the British have move forward but we are stick to their system of colonial era.

Let us imagine, we have a 16 story building but the lift is available only from 10th to 16th floor. So anyone, own his own, if can reach to 10th floor then he can avail the facility. Now imagine, if the lift is installed from say first to 7th. I think then people can go easily to the 16th.

 

[CriticalThought]

Those folks are all products of farm-type education. Sadly, even the IT and technology sectors have moved into farming workers for the reasons you described above.

That all being said, individuals aren't amazing at everything, but they're usually amazing at a few things. We need an education system that can identify those aptitudes (apparent or latent), and amplify them with an education experienced suited to that individual.

There's nothing wrong with deep-diving into the areas you're really good at, but have an opportunity to still learn other areas without climbing a mountain.

TLDR: Everyone should have deep knowledge in a field they're good at, but there are layers to how far each individual can go. Limited persons should still have avenues to grow.

Once you have delved deep into mathematics, you will find that other areas of study open up to you and you can easily delve deep into them without much trouble.

 

[peagle]

I agree, that we need 'models' system. So that when we go through such system, it can make a reference/standard for us. but I still think if we focus more on primary education and less on Unis, still in the end we can get great scientists in the end.

Our mindset. as the British have move forward but we are stick to their system of colonial era.

Let us imagine, we have a 16 story building but the lift is available only from 10th to 16th floor. So anyone, own his own, if can reach to 10th floor then he can avail the facility. Now imagine, if the lift is installed from say first to 7th. I think then people can go easily to the 16th.

Well, I agree totally.
I had misunderstood your allergy to be regarding public-private partnerships.

Once you have delved deep into mathematics, you will find that other areas of study open up to you and you can easily delve deep into them without much trouble.

I always wanted to give mathematics another try, not for practical purposes but for personal growth. What would be your advice?

 

[CriticalThought]

Well, I agree totally.
I had misunderstood your allergy to be regarding public-private partnerships.


I always wanted to give mathematics another try, not for practical purposes but for personal growth. What would be your advice?

Use Discrete Mathematics, or at least the logic part of it as preliminary.

Start with analysis: Advanced Calculus, Vector Calculus, Multi-Dimensional Calculus, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, Topology, Measure Theory. Later you can solidify your understanding by perusing a book on Abstract Algebra. This entire arc will open up a world of learning to you.

With this grounding, study Stochastic Processes and Random Variables, and linear regression. This will be your entry into Machine Learning, AI, and statistical modelling.

Then look at Differential Geometry and Tensors as well. These are very advanced topics that you will need for General Relativity. But the first two arcs will open up a lot to you.

EDIT: @peagle I added Discrete Mathematics and Topology to the mix.

 

[Goenitz]

@CriticalThought
Later in the video ( How to maintain our Demographic Dividend? ), you will find some of the answers...

@peagle
Just follow simple, Khan academy, and choose topics from O/A level. Like any other language, Math is a language which need practice.. you cannot memorise it.. so prepare yourself, filling registers/journals...

 

[Goenitz]

With this grounding, study Stochastic Processes and Random Variables, and linear regression. This will be your entry into Machine Learning, AI, and statistical modelling.

Statistics has its own merit and yes, very important in AI.. My sister developed a program to determine tress by taking picture of a leaf.

 

[Itachi]

View attachment 724547
List of countries by medal count at International Mathematical Olympiad

Lmao....winning at Math Olympiads isn't a good way to judge anything...

China has 10 times the population of Russia but less than twice the amount of gold....Russia has more Silver and Bronze....so does the US. China has 3x the population of the US.


And you thought you're helping China by posting this image?

Even tiny Hong Kong got 11 gold and more silver and bronze than mighty China.