MCA News & Discussions

[Goodperson]

LCA doesn't work, hence the MCA is a waste of discussion. Not happening till, the Indians have low credibility in their ability to delivery on such projects.

Who said LCA does not work ? Its only delayed its still part of IAF's plan.

Nothing wrong about discussing MCA, herein mistake could be avoided.

 

[shravan]

I think LCA flies...

 

[old monk]

I'm writing this article to stop bad mouthing on MCA.....
RADAR
The quest to create stealthy aircraft began as an attempt to counter secret technology developed during WW2, RADAR (Radio Detection and Ranging). A radar works by transmitting a signal out in a direction and this transmitted signal goes out to the target and reflects off the target this reflection comes back to the radar and receiver than picks up that signal. the relative size or an signature of an object detected by radar is called its RCS(Radar Cross Section).
So how do you lower your signature?
scientists found that by controlling the angles of the panels and the edges of the panels they could totally control the amount of the energy reflected back to the radar. this was experimented in f117; the f117 has no straight edges meeting at a right angle. the Idea is to deflect radar waves away from the receiving antenna, and to absorb any stray radar waves the surface of the fighter is covered with RAM(Radar Absorbing Material) Ideally thermal plastic...
what next?
these things reduce the effective range of a radar installation creating gaps in the air defense web; thus it can slip through undetected... an on board computerized mission planning system is programmed to navigate the jet through a least threatening route.

 

[old monk]

So why did I take pain to write such a big article?
because though todays stealth aircraft seem to have a body of a cutting edge modern weapon system they only represent the earliest generations of a technology that is still in its infancy.... stealth technology is not that simple that many here think..... theres a lot to be explored on this subject and our scientists are working towards it.... They may succeed they may fail but they surely will contribute on the subject.... those subjects where our nation will be mentioned INDIA.

 

[godsavetheworld]

Also, 8-10 years is unrealistic, especially considering that the the LCA program has been going on since the 80s and is still not complete (which, incidentally, was around the time the F-22 program started). The LCA program suffered from overscheduling and overbudgeting due primarily to oversight and overengineering, therefore, you must make sure the mistakes are not repeated.

Edit

By the way, what's with the naming system? If an F-22 equivalent is a "Medium Combat Aircraft", what the heck would a "Full Combat Aircraft" look like?

Also, 8-10 years is unrealistic, especially considering that the the LCA program has been going on since the 80s and is still not complete (which, incidentally, was around the time the F-22 program started).

Not really, MCA project began in 1996, and has already ended wind tunnel testing phase succesfully. Designs, Avionics, stealth systems(like the one developed by IIT Roorkee IIT develops technology to produce stealth aircraft) have already ended planning phase and entered R&D phase 4 years ago.

Comparing the long-awaited success of LCA, to the future of MCA, is futile. LCA was India's first indigenous fighter. It went from 2nd gen to 4.5 gen all in the R&D phase, all because the technologies were being developed by India itself. With the success of LCA, most state of the art military aviation related techs, are availible, and upgrading from a 4.5 gen aircraft to a 5gen one is far easier compared to developing just one aircraft and taking it from 2nd gen to 4.5 gen in the R&D phase itself within 10 years.

India today has a far bigger knowledge and technology base than it did in 1985. Since DRDO has finally begun cooperating with world's best tech institutes like the IIT's, the job gets much simpler and far efficient. And top it with the ever increasing defence budget, seeing an MCA take to the skies is going to happen as early as 2014-15.

By the way, what's with the naming system? If an F-22 equivalent is a "Medium Combat Aircraft", what the heck would a "Full Combat Aircraft" look like

Dont worry we'll be coming up with a shitty name sooner than later. I actually would prefer it being called an MCA rather than something like 'rajdoot' 'tejas' 'prakash' 'suman' 'gaurav' 'vaibhav' or whatever.

 

[godsavetheworld]

India's DRDO intends to develop a stealthy Medium Combat Aircraft, a further extension of its LCA design, in order to replace the Jaguar and Mirage inventory beginning around 2010. Development costs are expected to be over US$2 billion.

As of mid-1997 the MCA design concept had no vertical stabilizer and employed an advanced flight control system coupled to axisymetric nozzles. The twin engined aircraft is planned to have a thrust ratio of 7:8:1, and GE, SNECMA, and Klimov have all offered to provide the engines for this aircraft.

The twin-engined Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA) is a stealthy Gen-5 combat aicraft optimised for strike missions. It will complement LCA and Su-30MKI as India's leading combat planes. If given the go-ahead, it should fly before 2015 and be inducted by 2018. The concept has been turned into an unbelievable reality.

India is currently developing LCA a light multirole attack plane. The only components common between MCA and LCA will be part of the wing, the Kaveri engine, and some systems and subsystems. MCA will be much heavier (12 ton dry weight).

The LCA has started flying in 2001 and should be inducted around 2008. MCA itself should make its first flight before 2014. It will face direct competition from China's J-12, which should come out before 2015.

Why India needs the MCA

MCA is basically envisioned as a replacement for the British Jaguar and Mirage 2000 the IAF flies, which will be phased out by 2015.

Propulsion

The State owned Gas Turbine Research Establishment [GTRE] was to indigenously develop the Kaveri engine to power the LCA and MCA. But there have been major slippages in all the milestones. GE, SNECMA, and Klimov had all offered to provide the engines for this aircraft.

The Kaveri engines in the MCA will have a slightly higher dry thrust than in the LCA engine. These engines will also have thrust-vectoring nozzles. It is unknown which company will be providing this technology, or whether it will be developed in India itself. A supercruise capability is not being sought. The twin engined aircraft is planned to have a thrust ratio of 7:8:1. The MCA will use India's own radar-absorbent material to reduce radar cross-section.

Stealth

Stealthiness will be a priority and hence the MCA will have two small, outward-canted fins and the external fuel tanks will be mounted above the wings. Absence of a vertical fin improves stealth. However, not all weapons will be internal and hence will compromize the stealth.

If all progresses according to plan, MCA will become first military fighter that has no tail - at all. USA is the only country to have seriously pursued such aircraft. It experimented with tail-less design in X-36. F-16X concept is another tail-less concept.

Tail-less design has been seen in Flying Wings, but these represent a separate class of aeroplanes. To realize the MCA, India will have to develop cutting edge technology. US help in this area is obviously expected.

 

[Merilion]

India today has a far bigger knowledge and technology base than it did in 1985. Since DRDO has finally begun cooperating with world's best tech institutes like the IIT's, the job gets much simpler and far efficient. And top it with the ever increasing defence budget, seeing an MCA take to the skies is going to happen as early as 2014-15.

Not trying to pour cold water here but "over-optimistic" too often or too much ppl call it boasting.

 

[PAFAce]

Good stuff! MCA sounds like a wonderful project. Will definitely propel India much further in the defence aviation industry. However, it is a little comical sometimes to read the unrealistic claims here.

Wind tunnel testing cannot be completed before the designs have been narrowed down to the finals (could be as much as three different designs). You know when they finished wind-tunnel testing the F-22? after Engineering and Manufacturing Design well into the 1990s, 15 years after the ATF project began. So there is no way the wind-tunnel testing has been completed. Also, it is way too early to be saying things about the design of the plane. Indian engineers are smart, they will not restrict themselves to a design at this early stage. At the most they may have converged on the requirements and the types of approaches. If they've began design phase, most likely they are still in the early design stages. An acceleration will be seen, surely, once the LCA project is finally completed.

Lastly, I did not say the MCA will suffer from the same problems as the LCA. My point was, hopefully you have learned your lessons and will not repeat past mistakes. That is the whole point of engineering.

Other than that. Good luck! I can't wait to be writing on the "J-XX vs MCA" thread that is sure to follow in a few years time.

 

[godsavetheworld]

Not trying to pour cold water here but "over-optimistic" too often or too much ppl call it boasting.

If you call the truth boasting, then what would you call when I actually start making up BS? Get a life!

 

[Merilion]

The LCA has started flying in 2001 and should be inducted around 2008. MCA itself should make its first flight before 2014. It will face direct competition from China's J-12, which should come out before 2015.

This year is already year 2009.
And, J12 was a fighter developed in 1960s and never inducted in PLAAF since then.
China's 5th gen fighter estimated time is around 2020 and cannot even fully match with F22 even by that time.

 

[Rajkumar]

It would be great if you provide some more information on subject... though triangular-shaped crystals have been used before as Radar absorbent beneath the exterior, bouncing the signal around until death.

Materials scientists at the Indian Institute of Technology in Roorkee (IIT-R) have developed microwave absorbing nanocomposite coatings that could make aircraft almost invisible to radar.

The technology for building invisible, or stealth aircraft, is a closely guarded secret of developed countries and a handful of laboratories in India are doing research in this area.

Radars that emit pulses of microwave radiation identify flying aircraft by detecting the radiation reflected by the aircraft's metallic body.

The nanocomposite coatings developed by Rahul Sharma, RC Agarwala and Vijaya Agarwala at IIT-R absorb most of the incident radiation and reflect very little.

Sharma, who revealed his team's work at an international nanomaterials conference held recently at the Indian Institute of Science in Bangalore, believes their nano-product is a significant step in developing a technology to enable aircraft escape radar surveillance and protect its equipment from electronic "jamming".

Nanoparticles - so called because of their very small size - are known to exhibit unique physical and chemical properties. The IIT team found that crystals of "barium hexaferrite" with particle size of 10-15 nanometres have the ability to absorb microwaves. (Human hair, for comparison, is 100,000 nanometres thick).

They developed special processes for synthesising the nanopowder and formulating it as a coating.

Sharma said that the nanocomposite coating on the aluminium sheet absorbed 89 per cent of incident microwaves at 15 giga hertz - the frequency normally used by radars - reflecting only 11 per cent. A stealth aircraft should ideally absorb all the incident radiation and reflect nothing.


IIT develops technology to produce stealth aircraft- Hindustan Times

i hope this will we under further research. i have seen few more project related to defense going to iit. i worked on one of the mini project also.

 

[zombie:-)]

a really optimistic estimate of the MCA first flight as a technology demonstrator will be some where near 2019-2021

@ merlion its not called boasting ..its pure fanboism

@ GSTW man please be patient its not a small thing ..itll take lots of time ...airframe designing starts from basic wind tunel model ...according to size and weight specifications ....will develope into computerized modeling of the interior of the aircraft ....then comes resource identification....fabrication of parts .....building .......extensive tests ......for possible weak links in the structure ......together this a possible engine to power it ,whose development must go on alongside the airframe design and manufacture

let me give an example ....even after building a full scale aircraft it should be tested for temperature variation on the ground itself ...crew safety.....landing gear sturdiness..... then comes the actual flying AS A TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATOR ...later putting avionics engine and other stuff will take a long time .....so lets keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best and prepare for the worst

if there is russian help ..the timeline might get reduced by 1-1.5 years
...and all the above words are really optimistic....hope there is no hiccups from the babus and the air force this time .......all the best for the people working or going to work on this ambitious project

 

[Contrarian]

I don't disagree with you but if the Russians get involved in it then yes they can do it, Its just going to be like our Project JF-17 Chinese and Pakistani brains put togather and it worked out well. Russians want such a fighter for them selves they expressed this project last year and HAL jumped into it russians have a reputation of getting things faster than anyone in the world I am sure a lot of money is needed and India will be contributing a large sum. This design was not made by the Indians it was made by russians.

The MCA project doesnt involve Russians, Sir. That is the FGFA project. It is a heavy class fighter, of the type of F-22. The design of that project is frozen, Sukhoi is leading this project. The design is totally Russian, however there will be two versions of this plane. The one with Indian specs is supposed to be different and incorporates some minor changes in design apart from massive changes in other components like the MKI is to a regular Su-30.

The MCA(Medium Combat Aircraft) project which apparently has been given the go-ahead is different one. It is supposed to be a medium weight plane. This one will be Indian completely, design and development et all. It is also the logical continuation of the LCA-Light Combat Aircraft.This one will be attempted alone.

Thus there should now be two 5th generation fighter programmes running in parallel. One is completely Indian(MCA) and the other one is in collaboration with Russia(FGFA).

 

[Screaming Skull]

Ok guys here are some more details about the MCA project. The expected specs n all.

India details plans for indigenous medium combat aircraft​

India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has begun talks with the Indian air force to involve the service in the design for its proposed medium combat aircraft (MCA), and hopes to put forward a plan in a few years to secure government funding for detailed studies.

"In India, we have a fighter aircraft design team that comprises officials from various departments. It was formed to work on the Tejas light combat aircraft, and it makes sense for them to move on to a new fighter design after completing that," says P S Subramanyam, programme director (combat aircraft) at the ADA, which oversees design and development of the Tejas. "We are engaging the air force on the MCA and finding out about their requirements." tup: Good move! Something that was absent with the LCA program.)

The agency, which displayed a windtunnel testing model of the MCA at the Aero India 2009 show in Bangalore in February, believes it will take 10 years to develop the aircraft. It also released further details on the twin-engine design, which will incorporate stealth features.

Primarily, the MCA will have air-to-ground and air-to-air capabilities and be able to perform suppression of enemy air defence, precision strike and close combat missions, the ADA says. The 20t design will also have a low radar cross-section, "serpentine-shaped" air intakes, internal weapons bays and advanced radomes to increase its stealth features. Radar-absorbing composites and paints will supplement the design, and there will also be an on-board micro-electro-mechanical system.

The MCA will use an advanced version of the indigenous Gas Turbine Research Establishment Kaveri engine, which is still under development, and is projected to deliver "supercruise" performance, thrust-vectoring control and low infrared capabilities, and a projected top speed of Mach 1.6.

It will also include integrated modular architecture avionics and data fusion sensor capabilities, plus a decision support system, advanced sensors, flush/body conformal antennas and pods, and advanced communication and net-centric warfare capabilities, the ADA adds.

The aircraft will further have the capability for internal weapon release in supersonic flight, high asymmetry control, and a reconfigurable flight-control system.

Subramanyam says that the MCA will not compete with the fighter that India selects for its medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition. New Delhi is holding a tender to select 126 fighters for the requirement, with a selection projected to take place in 2010 and deliveries scheduled to begin from 2013. Contenders are the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16, RSK MiG-35 and Saab Gripen.

"The MMRCA aircraft are fourth-generation fighters that are already in production and incorporating technology that is already available. The MCA will replace the air force's existing MiG-29s and [Dassault] Mirages when those are retired over a decade from now," Subramanyam says. "It is being conceptualised now to use technology that will be available only 10 years from now, and so will be very different and have superior capabilities to the current generation of fighters."

 

[PAFAce]

Thus there should now be two 5th generation fighter programmes running in parallel. One is completely Indian(MCA) and the other one is in collaboration with Russia(FGFA).

This is exactly what I was talking about. There is no such thing as "completely Indian" in the aviation industry. Even the most advanced countries these days have joint projects. I guarantee there will be foreign help. I just don't see what is wrong with admitting it? We all know you're not going to try to reinvent the wheel, so why claim so?