MBT 3000/ Al Haider reviews, etc.

[Arsalan]

Thank you for the detailed reply however i would like to point towards a few issues.

In my opinion J-10 is not going to be part of PAF or PN because there are other options i.e F-16's & F-15's available. Those would be enough for the time leading to the F-31, TFX and KFX to become available.

We are NEVER going to get F-15, be sure about that. Also please note that whether you though PAF will get J-10 or not is different thing, the point is that it was being REPORTED that PAF is going for J-10 and also the other platforms mentioned in above posts but that never actually happened.

PAF is also considering to get the T-50 which could also provide enough support to the existing F-16's along with JF-17's. This would end the speculation on getting the L-15's or an upgraded K-8's.

F-16 and JF-17, Yes, T-50 to support them,, highly unlikely. If there is ANY chance PAF will accquire T-50 (currently there seem no chance at all) that will be only for next generation trainer platform, not to support F-16 and JF-17.

Though a few days back one of the ministers or the adviser to the PM stated that Pakistan has other aircraft which have been placed at strategic locations. Now this could indicate that the J-10's were purchased in 2010 but have been placed in China. The same could be said about the QING class of submarines.

That minister is a nutcase, this statement do not makes any sense at all. It is quite impossible that there is anything actual happening like this. You can never trust these government ministers.

As far as the U-214's are concerned the deal was initially deferred till the time funds were available or just because people might not say that PN is procuring Subs where as that money should be spent on disaster relief after the Earth Quake. If I remember correctly a few years back PN was also looking to purchase used Agosta 90's, it is rumored that the French were not interested in selling the used ones. Later on PN spent money to install AIP in the existing fleet and also upgraded them.

Again, it was confirmed in the first place and than nothing happened, that is what the point was.

As far as the increase in Army is concerned Al- Khalid / Al-Khalid 1 are being produced but the required numbers is grater because the older tanks need replacement. Though Al-Zarar is also available but that is not a new tank but an old tank which is upgraded so the numbers available for Pakistan Army are limited.
Considering these requirements of the existing fleet Al - Haider is being tested. This tank would also take time to induct and come to a suitable production rate approximately in 5 years from the date of mass production.

If two new armor corps are to be raised parallel to the existing procurement then Pakistan Army would require to procure Tanks from some other source. These tanks should be compatible to the existing technologies as you have already mentioned. It is highly likely that the Turkish Tank Altay with a Ukrainian Diesel engine would be the top most contender. More over Saudi Arabia is also considering Altay and if Pakistan Army is going to send troops to protect them or to train them then they would have to have the same technology.

You mean that PA will buy Altay from Turkey?? made in Turkey? that means no technological gain and increase in knowledge base. Furthermore, what about the requirement of Turkish armed forces? PA looked quite interested in T-129 but it was mainly the delayed time line for delivery that was counted as a negative point (along with American components). The exact same will happen with the tank. Turkey is not Russia or Ukraine with years of experience in manufacturing these things, limited internal needs to be immediately addressed to so they provide you with ready equipment. The only way we will go for a new system (between Al Khalid and Haider) is when it gives a significant technological gain to our engineers and is manufactured at home. By the logic of slow production (that is totally true) a new system will complicate things even more.

Though I agree with what you are saying in 3rd and 4th paragraphs regarding Pakistani tanks and the future up-gradations. The only difference is on the rate of production which in my opinion is slow.

Well Arab's never considered a common Pakistani as a brother. They only treated the the Government officials as brothers. Saudi Arabia / GCC countries are puppets of USA, Pakistan used to be one and hence paid a big price in doing so.

I could not agree more with this.

Today Pakistan has realized that this relationship is much more stronger then before but in the eyes of the common citizen it is no more a love affair. Hence till the time the citizens of Pakistan forget and forgive the current relation ship with USA is not going to be a simple one. USA does not like this and hence started to exert pressure through various sources on the Government where as it has started initiatives and direct dealings with people of Pakistan.

The name would be Al-Khalid II it would have a more powerful engine and higher protection. All this is mentioned over the years

Their is no such thing as AK-II that supposed AK-II is basically AK-1 as for J-10 I think it would be part of PAF. Yes Pakistan needs to in coming years massively increase Army and place at least 20000 in Saudi Arabia and increase it further as economy improves and defence budged increases.

Screw SA, our army is for us and is paid to look after our national interests. When our national interests call for its deployment in SA we will do so until then the Sheiks need to protect there own harams!

 

[Zarvan]

Thank you for the detailed reply however i would like to point towards a few issues.


We are NEVER going to get F-15, be sure about that. Also please note that whether you though PAF will get J-10 or not is different thing, the point is that it was being REPORTED that PAF is going for J-10 and also the other platforms mentioned in above posts but that never actually happened.


F-16 and JF-17, Yes, T-50 to support them,, highly unlikely. If there is ANY chance PAF will accquire T-50 (currently there seem no chance at all) that will be only for next generation trainer platform, not to support F-16 and JF-17.


That minister is a nutcase, this statement do not makes any sense at all. It is quite impossible that there is anything actual happening like this. You can never trust these government ministers.


Again, it was confirmed in the first place and than nothing happened, that is what the point was.


You mean that PA will buy Altay from Turkey?? made in Turkey? that means no technological gain and increase in knowledge base. Furthermore, what about the requirement of Turkish armed forces? PA looked quite interested in T-129 but it was mainly the delayed time line for delivery that was counted as a negative point (along with American components). The exact same will happen with the tank. Turkey is not Russia or Ukraine with years of experience in manufacturing these things, limited internal needs to be immediately addressed to so they provide you with ready equipment. The only way we will go for a new system (between Al Khalid and Haider) is when it gives a significant technological gain to our engineers and is manufactured at home. By the logic of slow production (that is totally true) a new system will complicate things even more.

Though I agree with what you are saying in 3rd and 4th paragraphs regarding Pakistani tanks and the future up-gradations. The only difference is on the rate of production which in my opinion is slow.


I could not agree more with this.

Today Pakistan has realized that this relationship is much more stronger then before but in the eyes of the common citizen it is no more a love affair. Hence till the time the citizens of Pakistan forget and forgive the current relation ship with USA is not going to be a simple one. USA does not like this and hence started to exert pressure through various sources on the Government where as it has started initiatives and direct dealings with people of Pakistan.

The name would be Al-Khalid II it would have a more powerful engine and higher protection. All this is mentioned over the years



Screw SA, our army is for us and is paid to look after our national interests. When our national interests call for its deployment in SA we will do so until then the Sheiks need to protect there own harams!

Our biggest national interest is war doesn't enter KSA other wise entire Pakistan and Muslim world will be on fire and you can't wait for that to happen than do something until than it would be too late.

 

[Arsalan]

Our biggest national interest is war doesn't enter KSA other wise entire Pakistan and Muslim world will be on fire and you can't wait for that to happen than do something until than it would be too late.

Zarvan our biggest national interest is that the war that have already entered our OWN COUNTRY and already set us on fire, being fueled by our brothers and enemies alike is ended and won first. Anything and everything else is of secondary importance.
Also the have good masters in Americans and European who will take care of them and in the mean time we should address our problems.

 

[kaonalpha]

Any news on MBT 3000. There was that one guy who uploaded a picture. But he did not reveal the location. Plus i have tried contacting my sources but unfortunately they have been posted out of Taxila.

So again any new info?

 

[Tameem]

So again any new info?

After MBT-3000 there will be soon MBT-4000

 

[kaonalpha]

yes now coming back to reality

After MBT-3000 there will be soon MBT-4000

 

[Tipu7]

I am sure you are aware that Pakistan and Turkey are going to sign different defence related deals soon. An interesting development : Army acquisitions !

Today the geopolitical situation of Pakistan has changed and it is going to take a dynamic approach. Pakistan is going to face not just India but also Afghanistan and Iran once Gawadar is fully operational. At present the tank force of Pakistan army is enough with 2 Attack corps but we would have to increase the numbers by 2 more, so that one can protect against the Western borders.

Ideally a rapid deployment force could also be added so that it can be transported to protect Muslim Sacred Sights be it in Pakistan or else where in the World.

The Turkish Tanks and other equipment is designed to be transported on C-130's and on Western Helicopters which can be easily transported even by friendly nations giving a quicker response time.

The Korean's are having problem in production costs for their military equipment and hence are willing to produce them in other countries which have cheaper labor. In this regards they are willing to develop the infrastructure and facilities. They have already shown interest in Shipbuilding and Aircraft which can further increase into heavy industries. Trains and Cruise liners along with other non military related projects would also be seen.

Moreover both Turkey and South Korea treat Pakistan as a brother because they can not forget the time when they were in need Pakistan helped them and now they have to repay.

How South Korea ??? We supported Turks on several occasions but when South Koreans??

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

How South Korea ?

In 60's and early 70's Pakistan gave the Koreans all the development modules that Pakistan was following to become a prosperous country.

Turkey sent South Korea troops and munition during the Korean War.

 

[Asian.Century]

NEXT GENERATION 'HAIDER TANK' PROJECT | Errymath

Norinco VT-4 MBT (Al Haider) at IDEAS 2014

NEXT GENERATION 'HAIDER TANK' PROJECT

 

[Asian.Century]

 

[yunfei chen]

 

[Spectre]

I wish some would go into merits of tanks and other armored vehicles in case of war b/w two countries having a modernized and effective air defense systems and air force. In such a case air superiority can't be achieved and as such the armored units are susceptible to drones and gunships.

 

[yunfei chen]

I wish some would go into merits of tanks and other armored vehicles in case of war b/w two countries having a modernized and effective air defense systems and air force. In such a case air superiority can't be achieved and as such the armored units are susceptible to drones and gunships.

The war of the future is not just weapons, but the comprehensive national strength

 

[ali_raza]

i once meet a brigadier sahib.he was retired from HIT.he told me that ukrainian tanks were not actually bought to fight with.they were actually to copy some components for al khalid and to sweeten the deal for engines.as they say there is many ways to skin the cat.so maybe to go further upgrade we need to look inside things by buying them.u never know

 

[Tipu7]

i once meet a brigadier sahib.he was retired from HIT.he told me that ukrainian tanks were not actually bought to fight with.they were actually to copy some components for al khalid and to sweeten the deal for engines.as they say there is many ways to skin the cat.so maybe to go further upgrade we need to look inside things by buying them.u never know

320 tanks for just copying purpose??? Copying may be tertiary purpose but their primary purpose it to punch holes in Indian Tanks....... that's it