MBT 3000/ Al Haider reviews, etc.

[kaonalpha]

Based on what? Like i said you make a lot of claims but never back anything up or are often proven wrong. Also what does a fire control system have to do with cramped interiors?

yeah im intended to know when they are going to be on sale

plus RT Was reporting that the t14 is going to get additional upgrading ?




Again, what do you base your proof on? You're making claims you can not back. I can throw the same claims out about Pakistan, China or pretty much anyone. Can you give me any specifics about Russian datalinks or even Pakistani? I did not think so. Like i said i can play the same game of making empty claims. Russia has proven it can built anything it wants and compete with the best. So far the only one that claims otherwise is you despite no hard facts to back up your big talk.

Tell everyone is the battlefield management system on the Al-Khalid a V-ban integrated processing unit which is slaved to MhGs secure lines? Can you give some specifics about scan particle process rejection in IF mode/rejection standards process control and filter mode?












Oh wise one please tell everyone what the classified T-90 armor is since you were bragging about somehow knowing what it is. Please break down the specifics, such as elements and how it's layered.










Congratulations you can post pictures of interiors, can i give you a coloring book and some crayons? If i wanted to talk about how comfortable or stylish interiors are i would have said so, yet i did not which proves you are desperately trying to change the subject. Thus far you have avoided answering every claim you have ever made about the T-90. Your tactic, make a vague claims with no proof then avoid answering questions. Then switch to a different topic such as interiors, then keep tap dancing.

I also find it funny that you think the Al-Khalid has a larger interior when there is virtually no noticeable difference. But like it even matters, you only posted shots of the interiors to divert attention away from your claims because you know that you can not answer the questions. You keep digging yourself a deeper hole with each post.














How about you post a link describing these T-90s not being able to fire Ajeyas ammo. I won't hold my breath knowing your reputation of dodging facts and lying. The one thing i do know is that Pakistan has no defense industry, and is really not good at anything, that is pathetic. Education, engineering, science, ect are really none existent in Pakistan and you have the nerve to call Russia pathetic?


Lets see some of that fine Pakistani engineering, that carried over to the Al-Khalid



View attachment 222124





How can Russia ever compete with the Nissan mickey mouse.


All we have is this:



View attachment 222129

We are truly screwed. Now i know why you are always bragging about how pathetic Russian engineering is and how great Pakistan is. Please do continue bashing Russian fire and control units and data-links i will pass the word on to Russian engineers since they obviously don't know what they are doing i mean how backwards do Russians need to be to make a gun that surpasses the Rehinmetall in performance or integrate active defense onto a tank, and who puts AESA radars on a tank? Those Russians are pretty dumb, they must have stole AESA technology from Pakistan as well as hard kill active defense systems...oh wait Pakistan is not capable of producing either.

 

[Zarvan]

Most systems are classified, only snippets are know or basic details that tell you little of the true capabilities. I have no bone to pick with the Al-Khalid, i just want some answers to claims made about the T-90.

But to keep the thread from being derailed, i will try to keep the T-90 out of it as long as others don't keep dragging it in to the topic.

Most are not they are pretty much known.

 

[JPMM]

You have 14 Armoured Regiments / Armoured Reconnaissance Regiments running on T59MII & T69IIMP, 3 are or will be receiving the Al-Khalid from the last batch (110 tanks), the rest need to be replaced by new tanks. These regiments are operating in Punjab and on the two XI & XII corps, you should choose the B1 Centauro for these last units and go for a Heavy Tank for Punjab. I dont now if the Al-Haider is the best choice. Its designed for a desert role and you already have the T80UD/Al-Khalid/T85IIAP there, now need to spend your muny that way. This morning i had my breakfast watching a program about your women asking for education on the Swat area, you better spend your money in that!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

You have 14 Armoured Regiments / Armoured Reconnaissance Regiments running on T59MII & T69IIMP, 3 are or will be receiving the Al-Khalid from the last batch (110 tanks), the rest need to be replaced by new tanks. These regiments are operating in Punjab and on the two XI & XII corps, you should choose the B1 Centauro for these last units and go for a Heavy Tank for Punjab. I dont now if the Al-Haider is the best choice. Its designed for a desert role and you already have the T80UD/Al-Khalid/T85IIAP there, now need to spend your muny that way. This morning i had my breakfast watching a program about your women asking for education on the Swat area, you better spend your money in that!

Pakistan is going for Al-Haider to supplement the Al-Khalid. Where as the T59's & T69's will be replaced by T-80 & T-85 Al -Zarar.

Though later on Pakistan may be interested in Turkish or South Korean tank's because they are similar in designs to the Al-Khalid.

 

[Arsalan]

Pakistan is going for Al-Haider to supplement the Al-Khalid. Where as the T59's & T69's will be replaced by T-80 & T-85 Al -Zarar.

Though later on Pakistan may be interested in Turkish or South Korean tank's because they are similar in designs to the Al-Khalid.

dont think so,,, Pakistan have established a good base in tank manufacturing and the only sensible way from here is more and more self reliance in this field.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

[QUOTE="Arsalan, post: 7167507, member: 11327"]dont think so,,, Pakistan have established a good base in tank manufacturing and the only sensible way from here is more and more self reliance in this field.[/QUOTE]
Which part?

 

[Arsalan]

Which part?

This one:

Though later on Pakistan may be interested in Turkish or South Korean tank's because they are similar in designs to the Al-Khalid

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

This one:

I am sure you are aware that Pakistan and Turkey are going to sign different defence related deals soon. An interesting development : Army acquisitions !

Today the geopolitical situation of Pakistan has changed and it is going to take a dynamic approach. Pakistan is going to face not just India but also Afghanistan and Iran once Gawadar is fully operational. At present the tank force of Pakistan army is enough with 2 Attack corps but we would have to increase the numbers by 2 more, so that one can protect against the Western borders.

Ideally a rapid deployment force could also be added so that it can be transported to protect Muslim Sacred Sights be it in Pakistan or else where in the World.

The Turkish Tanks and other equipment is designed to be transported on C-130's and on Western Helicopters which can be easily transported even by friendly nations giving a quicker response time.

The Korean's are having problem in production costs for their military equipment and hence are willing to produce them in other countries which have cheaper labor. In this regards they are willing to develop the infrastructure and facilities. They have already shown interest in Shipbuilding and Aircraft which can further increase into heavy industries. Trains and Cruise liners along with other non military related projects would also be seen.

Moreover both Turkey and South Korea treat Pakistan as a brother because they can not forget the time when they were in need Pakistan helped them and now they have to repay.

 

[Arsalan]

I am sure you are aware that Pakistan and Turkey are going to sign different defence related deals soon. An interesting development : Army acquisitions !

Today the geopolitical situation of Pakistan has changed and it is going to take a dynamic approach. Pakistan is going to face not just India but also Afghanistan and Iran once Gawadar is fully operational. At present the tank force of Pakistan army is enough with 2 Attack corps but we would have to increase the numbers by 2 more, so that one can protect against the Western borders.

Ideally a rapid deployment force could also be added so that it can be transported to protect Muslim Sacred Sights be it in Pakistan or else where in the World.

The Turkish Tanks and other equipment is designed to be transported on C-130's and on Western Helicopters which can be easily transported even by friendly nations giving a quicker response time.

The Korean's are having problem in production costs for their military equipment and hence are willing to produce them in other countries which have cheaper labor. In this regards they are willing to develop the infrastructure and facilities. They have already shown interest in Shipbuilding and Aircraft which can further increase into heavy industries. Trains and Cruise liners along with other non military related projects would also be seen.

Moreover both Turkey and South Korea treat Pakistan as a brother because they can not forget the time when they were in need Pakistan helped them and now they have to repay.

Yes i am aware of the prospects but that is all they are at the moment,, PROSPECTS, just like PAF getting J-10 in 2010, PN getting U214 in 2008 i guess, then QING class subs in 2012 if i remember.
Can't say i BELIEVE it unless we do go for it.

You mention the need to raising two armored corps but that do not implies that these must or would be of Turkish or Korean origin. Specially considering that PA is TOTALLY satisfied with the Al-Khalid performance, we already have the upgraded AK-I and there are talks of AK-II and even a new MBT Haider based heavily of Al Khalid and borrowing many improvements from MBT-3000. System commonality will be the game of future,,, you must have studied ARMATA concept, have you noticed what is one of THE MOST STRIKING feature? the system commonality, they are using the same machine as a tank, and APC, IFV, Unit Air Defense system and many other roles,, the same main system will be used mounted with different offensive/defensive weaponry to make it a different machine for a particular role. This is the future PA seem to be going for. This was the reason that it is being massively reported that the new rumored Al Haider. while inspired on MBT-300 will share many key features with Al Khalid - I for that sub component commonality. That keeps the costs of induction down and the costs of maintenance in control.

Keeping all this in mind, the future seem to be further refinement of the already existing design concepts. More and more ingenious input. Me may take an idea of two,, a sub component here and there from Turkey/Korea but real hardcore collaboration in a new tank design is not very likely and also do not makes much sense specially when we already have a base that is working fine and can be refined further.

Inducting an entirely new system only makes sense if your existing one is totally obsolete or have totally let you down. AK do not fits any of these,,, FORTUNATELY


Oh and regarding the brotherly relation, same was said about Pakistan and Arab world and look what different stance on Yemen is doing to that relation. I am happy you think like thins about the Turkish and Korean,, i am utmost respect for both these nations and consider our relations to be very close and friendly, brotherly as you said, but then again,, in relation of countries there are no friendships,, all that matter is your national interest.

 

[Asian.Century]

Any big updates coming on our next generation tank AL HAIDER mbt.? hows the trails going ?

 

[Zarvan]

Any big updates coming on our next generation tank AL HAIDER mbt.? hows the trails going ?

No not yet for past few years Pakistan is getting way more secretive both AL KHALID 1 and MBT-3000 are being kept a secret and also other defence projects.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Yes i am aware of the prospects but that is all they are at the moment,, PROSPECTS, just like PAF getting J-10 in 2010, PN getting U214 in 2008 i guess, then QING class subs in 2012 if i remember.
Can't say i BELIEVE it unless we do go for it.

You mention the need to raising two armored corps but that do not implies that these must or would be of Turkish or Korean origin. Specially considering that PA is TOTALLY satisfied with the Al-Khalid performance, we already have the upgraded AK-I and there are talks of AK-II and even a new MBT Haider based heavily of Al Khalid and borrowing many improvements from MBT-3000. System commonality will be the game of future,,, you must have studied ARMATA concept, have you noticed what is one of THE MOST STRIKING feature? the system commonality, they are using the same machine as a tank, and APC, IFV, Unit Air Defense system and many other roles,, the same main system will be used mounted with different offensive/defensive weaponry to make it a different machine for a particular role. This is the future PA seem to be going for. This was the reason that it is being massively reported that the new rumored Al Haider. while inspired on MBT-300 will share many key features with Al Khalid - I for that sub component commonality. That keeps the costs of induction down and the costs of maintenance in control.

Keeping all this in mind, the future seem to be further refinement of the already existing design concepts. More and more ingenious input. Me may take an idea of two,, a sub component here and there from Turkey/Korea but real hardcore collaboration in a new tank design is not very likely and also do not makes much sense specially when we already have a base that is working fine and can be refined further.

Inducting an entirely new system only makes sense if your existing one is totally obsolete or have totally let you down. AK do not fits any of these,,, FORTUNATELY


Oh and regarding the brotherly relation, same was said about Pakistan and Arab world and look what different stance on Yemen is doing to that relation. I am happy you think like thins about the Turkish and Korean,, i am utmost respect for both these nations and consider our relations to be very close and friendly, brotherly as you said, but then again,, in relation of countries there are no friendships,, all that matter is your national interest.

In my opinion J-10 is not going to be part of PAF or PN because there are other options i.e F-16's & F-15's available. Those would be enough for the time leading to the F-31, TFX and KFX to become available. PAF is also considering to get the T-50 which could also provide enough support to the existing F-16's along with JF-17's. This would end the speculation on getting the L-15's or an upgraded K-8's.

Though a few days back one of the ministers or the adviser to the PM stated that Pakistan has other aircraft which have been placed at strategic locations. Now this could indicate that the J-10's were purchased in 2010 but have been placed in China. The same could be said about the QING class of submarines.

As far as the U-214's are concerned the deal was initially deferred till the time funds were available or just because people might not say that PN is procuring Subs where as that money should be spent on disaster relief after the Earth Quake. If I remember correctly a few years back PN was also looking to purchase used Agosta 90's, it is rumored that the French were not interested in selling the used ones. Later on PN spent money to install AIP in the existing fleet and also upgraded them.

As far as the increase in Army is concerned Al- Khalid / Al-Khalid 1 are being produced but the required numbers is grater because the older tanks need replacement. Though Al-Zarar is also available but that is not a new tank but an old tank which is upgraded so the numbers available for Pakistan Army are limited.
Considering these requirements of the existing fleet Al - Haider is being tested. This tank would also take time to induct and come to a suitable production rate approximately in 5 years from the date of mass production.

If two new armor corps are to be raised parallel to the existing procurement then Pakistan Army would require to procure Tanks from some other source. These tanks should be compatible to the existing technologies as you have already mentioned. It is highly likely that the Turkish Tank Altay with a Ukrainian Diesel engine would be the top most contender. More over Saudi Arabia is also considering Altay and if Pakistan Army is going to send troops to protect them or to train them then they would have to have the same technology.

Though I agree with what you are saying in 3rd and 4th paragraphs regarding Pakistani tanks and the future up-gradations. The only difference is on the rate of production which in my opinion is slow.

Well Arab's never considered a common Pakistani as a brother. They only treated the the Government officials as brothers. Saudi Arabia / GCC countries are puppets of USA, Pakistan used to be one and hence paid a big price in doing so. Today Pakistan has realized that this relationship is much more stronger then before but in the eyes of the common citizen it is no more a love affair. Hence till the time the citizens of Pakistan forget and forgive the current relation ship with USA is not going to be a simple one. USA does not like this and hence started to exert pressure through various sources on the Government where as it has started initiatives and direct dealings with people of Pakistan.

No not yet for past few years Pakistan is getting way more secretive both AL KHALID 1 and MBT-3000 are being kept a secret and also other defence projects.

The name would be Al-Khalid II it would have a more powerful engine and higher protection. All this is mentioned over the years.

 

[Zarvan]

In my opinion J-10 is not going to be part of PAF or PN because there are other options i.e F-16's & F-15's available. Those would be enough for the time leading to the F-31, TFX and KFX to become available. PAF is also considering to get the T-50 which could also provide enough support to the existing F-16's along with JF-17's. This would end the speculation on getting the L-15's or an upgraded K-8's.

Though a few days back one of the ministers or the adviser to the PM stated that Pakistan has other aircraft which have been placed at strategic locations. Now this could indicate that the J-10's were purchased in 2010 but have been placed in China. The same could be said about the QING class of submarines.

As far as the U-214's are concerned the deal was initially deferred till the time funds were available or just because people might not say that PN is procuring Subs where as that money should be spent on disaster relief after the Earth Quake. If I remember correctly a few years back PN was also looking to purchase used Agosta 90's, it is rumored that the French were not interested in selling the used ones. Later on PN spent money to install AIP in the existing fleet and also upgraded them.

As far as the increase in Army is concerned Al- Khalid / Al-Khalid 1 are being produced but the required numbers is grater because the older tanks need replacement. Though Al-Zarar is also available but that is not a new tank but an old tank which is upgraded so the numbers available for Pakistan Army are limited.
Considering these requirements of the existing fleet Al - Haider is being tested. This tank would also take time to induct and come to a suitable production rate approximately in 5 years from the date of mass production.

If two new armor corps are to be raised parallel to the existing procurement then Pakistan Army would require to procure Tanks from some other source. These tanks should be compatible to the existing technologies as you have already mentioned. It is highly likely that the Turkish Tank Altay with a Ukrainian Diesel engine would be the top most contender. More over Saudi Arabia is also considering Altay and if Pakistan Army is going to send troops to protect them or to train them then they would have to have the same technology.

Though I agree with what you are saying in 3rd and 4th paragraphs regarding Pakistani tanks and the future up-gradations. The only difference is on the rate of production which in my opinion is slow.

Well Arab's never considered a common Pakistani as a brother. They only treated the the Government officials as brothers. Saudi Arabia / GCC countries are puppets of USA, Pakistan used to be one and hence paid a big price in doing so. Today Pakistan has realized that this relationship is much more stronger then before but in the eyes of the common citizen it is no more a love affair. Hence till the time the citizens of Pakistan forget and forgive the current relation ship with USA is not going to be a simple one. USA does not like this and hence started to exert pressure through various sources on the Government where as it has started initiatives and direct dealings with people of Pakistan.


The name would be Al-Khalid II it would have a more powerful engine and higher protection. All this is mentioned over the years.

Their is no such thing as AK-II that supposed AK-II is basically AK-1 as for J-10 I think it would be part of PAF. Yes Pakistan needs to in coming years massively increase Army and place at least 20000 in Saudi Arabia and increase it further as economy improves and defence budged increases.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Their is no such thing as AK-II that supposed AK-II is basically AK-1 as for J-10 I think it would be part of PAF. Yes Pakistan needs to in coming years massively increase Army and place at least 20000 in Saudi Arabia and increase it further as economy improves and defence budged increases.

Well the present situation is we have to bring the Army to strength because we have lost many in the war. According to Army personals Al - Khalid was the initial designed tank that was produced in 2006. This was upgraded in 2009, this upgraded one was called Al-Khalid 1. Today all Al-Khalid are Al-Khalid 1's. (I think the deference was relating to the sight and digital imagery)

If you may recall at the same time the Turkish were going to research on a new tank (ALTAY) in 2008 and the South Korea had started to produce K2 Black Panther in 2009.

In Ideas 2014 it was rumored that a new tank would be brought which would be Al-Khalid II but what was shown was Al-Khalid 1 with the name Al-Khalid. Now it is not clear if the Al-Khalid was supposed to have all the features that Al-Khalid 1 has from the start and were not incorporated in time hence they continue to call it Al-Khalid.

Al-Khalid II would have many other features but I have only stated the ones that are most talked of.

 

[Shabi1]

What is confirmed so far is that AK-2 is supposed to be a heavier tank with 1500hp power plant. I suspect it could be Pakistani version of the Chinese T-99. Rumored specs are way too close.