Mathematical Analysis of Indian Poverty

[DaRk WaVe]

can u tell me how many ppl earn 1 dollar a day

Yesterday it was 2$ per day now your discussion has become how many earn 1$ per day.

what if some one gets a 'fever' come tell me medical facilites are free every where in India

according to the Constitution of India, all citizens are entitled to free medical care. With incomplete statistics, India established 22,000 primary health centres, 11,000 hospitals, 27,000 clinics and more than 2,000 community medical center. These forming a broad coverage of the health care network.

These government hospitals opened their doors to all patients. All services are all free, including the register, surgical and drugs, even health care, for example, massage.

Regarding free schools
Almost each Indian city has a government school which has minimal fees apart from institutes which are run by NGOs. Apart from these there are institutions like AMU where the education is minimal. In AMU the cost of getting a MBBS costs about just 15000/- and you can get educational loan against it.


Almost Half of Indian Children Suffer from Malnutrition
Almost Half of Indian Children Suffer from Malnutrition

Indian children suffer more malnutrition than in Ethiopia
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1421393.ece

keeping this in view, ur anaylsis become flawed, don''t show ur Blind patriotism, things are not this simple, it if would have been so simple this world wud have been a Heaven, but unfortunately its not...


As you said giving analysis is very easy but living the life is a different perspective. We Indians live with these people and have to interact with these people everyday one way or the other.

Blind patriotism,
It has nothing to do with patriotism it is the simple analysis that if you have 1$ you will not die hungry in India. No one denies that you cannot have luxuries of life but having luxuries is totally a different story.

I repeat we cant feel the pain of those ppl, any one who tries to justify a poverty coz u can get enough bread to be alive is a A** hole & look at the 'face' u made at the end of post, that was sick man...U & RAW do one thing, start living on two dollars....
I come from the same background where i was grown with no warm clothes for winter and my body was warmed with hands to keep me alive in winters. That was my scene 20 years back. So I think I have seen all this far closely then you can expect.

point remains ur justifying that so what ppl in India earn 2 dollar they are at least alive they dont die, very cool, there are Constitutions every where i as Skeptic defined that are many projects, its the implementation that matters, now if u say that these health units are all free then sorry man u need to wake up & moreover can u see the poplutaion vs health unit Ratio & btw the health care 'massage' is HILARIOUS & stupid at the same time , now coming to education the schools u qouted how many(number) students get admissions here & u think some one earning $2 can afford 15.000, suppose this money falls from heavens, Getting admission is another problem consider the Children which get their ed. from good 'Private Schools' & one those who go thru some BS school, to give same admission admission tests, i know there are exception but there is a thing called 'base of students',I willl give u an example of ur India I have a UAE based Indian Friend she is one hell of a Genius but she didnt got Admission in IIT, meaning a student with a good base can be left out coz there is extreme kinda competition there here those ppl with two dollar cant compete (removing exceptions)

Life isn't a simple Mathematical Equation

Its an equation every one cant solve and this Equation has Infinite variables, not 10 or 20,....
Humans every where are same or u ppl live with angels in India, even if i accept that no one dies of hunger, is Hunger the only God damn Thing left for a person to think about, Plz man don't do this, Plz...
saying that in other countries ppl die but in ours they dont is really just..... U know... Its like saying my evil is smaller

I think I must repeat this...
Before French Revolution, a Princess saw ppl wailing & protesting about their poverty, she asked Guards whats wrong them...
Guard:" they say they don't get enough Bread to eat"
Princess:" So what, say them to eat Pastries"

 

[Skeptic]

btw the health care 'massage' is HILARIOUS & stupid at the same time , now coming to education the schools u qouted how many students get admissions here & u think some one earning $2 can afford 15.000, suppose this money falls from heavens, Getting admission is another problem consider the Children which get their ed. from good 'Private Schools' & one those who go thru some BS school, to give same admission admission tests, i know there are exception but there is a thing called 'base of students',

Beg to differ here - Health Care is infact cheap and heavily subsidized. A person needs to pay Rs 2 to Rs. 5 to get a prescription in Govt hospitals and yes even the medication are provided at very subsidized rates / free.

Regarding Schools, If anyone does get admission to any of the medical / engg colleges, yes there is a way out. He can avail educational loans upto 7 Lacks without presenting any collateral. Yes the condition in some of the govt. school is pity full with very small number of teachers and I have always wondered - what has prevented filling up those seats when we have such a huge buffer of unemployed graduates / post Graduates who will give an arm and an eye for any govt. Job.

Even the Govt. Schools in cities are not problematic, infact children of some senior govt officials (specially who are transferred frequently) study in govt. schools. But the main problem is we completely forget about the rural areas in development. They are the one's lacking
amenities and there is where about 65% of Indian population lives.

To be very honest the Rural Vs Urban divide is far wider than any other in India currently.

 

[duhastmish]

life sucks for the poor of india and pakistan.

2 $ is average - and then there are people like me - who spend 25-30$ a day on their car fuel alone.

there are too many poor here - when i came back to india after many years my last visit was 8 yrs back.
i was in delhi for most of the time - had the india shining picture in front of me.

after 5-6 months i visited - MP (state) , i was having my food and threw the left over - two kids - totally naked came and picked it up and ate it.

----- i saw people running in small piece of cloth - because they dont have much to wear. after that my view changed-

people here die because of cold - in winter ( no cloths)

due to heat - in summer

due to flood - in rain

rest of the time they die due to poveryt , hunger , no madicine , lack of roof and other basics.

------------------------------

u cant live on bread and shelter - even a pig - spend his life like that - eat and crap .

these stats prove nothing - life is horrible here. just go out and ask.

i gave my maid a sum of about 50$ , i.e 2500 rupee, because her house or that thing - she call house was blown due to - sand storm ,
that amount for her was enough to have a temp. roof. -- but i wont call it a house.
--------------------------------


anyways that 2$ life :

i wont call that living - that life is worst than death- you are suffering life in those conditions. trying pass this disease called living given to you by almighty

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Beg to differ here - Health Care is infact cheap and heavily subsidized. A person needs to pay Rs 2 to Rs. 5 to get a prescription in Govt hospitals and yes even the medication are provided at very subsidized rates / free.

Regarding Schools, If anyone does get admission to any of the medical / engg colleges, yes there is a way out. He can avail educational loans upto 7 Lacks without presenting any collateral. Yes the condition in some of the govt. school is pity full with very small number of teachers and I have always wondered - what has prevented filling up those seats when we have such a huge buffer of unemployed graduates / post Graduates who will give an arm and an eye for any govt. Job.

Even the Govt. Schools in cities are not problematic, infact children of some senior govt officials (specially who are transferred frequently) study in govt. schools. But the main problem is we completely forget about the rural areas in development. They are the one's lacking
amenities and there is where about 65% of Indian population lives.

To be very honest the Rural Vs Urban divide is far wider than any other in India currently.

Thanks for correcting, the problem remains how many ppl Live in rural & urban areas

 

[advaita]

@ Skeptic -
All the estimations are taking dollar on face value where as in PPP terms the value would be much lower than the 100 rupees per capita.

Advaita : IMO (correct me if I am wrong)
Indian GDP 1 tril current USD = 2.5 tril PPP
Indian GDP 1 USD = 2.5 USD PPP.

@emo_girl -
& ONE MORE THING
will u start living on one dollar, of course u wont, poverty is a curse EVERY WHERE(well it be Pak, India or what ever), only ppl who go thru it know it, most of the ppl here on this forum have almost all the 'luxuries' of life we cannot feel the pain ppl suffer & things they do to make themselves rich, but we can very easily justify that u can live on "$1" wow man, hats for u

Advaita : Madam really doubt if R.W.A is trying to justify poverty
Also poverty is not a curse. Misery is. IMO Both quite different.
Also poverty was the natural state of pretty much everybody all through history.
Also most Indians in the forum have seen poverty if not themselves then in their families.
Also you are citing one Indian in UAE who was a Genius level. You fail to realise we have a ton here all going about there lives working away for a better common future for everybody.

For the rest of the members esp Indian: Analysis not good enough though, India has 20% plus pop below poverty line. That means they do not get 2500 cals per day. That is misery. Mehnat karo phal waise bhi tumahre haat main kabhi nahin thaa.

This should help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gini_Coefficient_World_Human_Development_Report_2007-2008.png

 

[DaRk WaVe]

life sucks for the poor of india and pakistan.

2 $ is average - and then there are people like me - who spend 25-30$ a day on their car fuel alone.

there are too many poor here - when i came back to india after many years my last visit was 8 yrs back.
i was in delhi for most of the time - had the india shining picture in front of me.

after 5-6 months i visited - MP (state) , i was having my food and threw the left over - two kids - totally naked came and picked it up and ate it.

----- i saw people running in small piece of cloth - because they dont have much to wear. after that my view changed-

people here die because of cold - in winter ( no cloths)

due to heat - in summer

due to flood - in rain

rest of the time they die due to poveryt , hunger , no madicine , lack of roof and other basics.

------------------------------

u cant live on bread and shelter - even a pig - spend his life like that - eat and crap .

these stats prove nothing - life is horrible here. just go out and ask.

i gave my maid a sum of about 50$ , i.e 2500 rupee, because her house or that thing - she call house was blown due to - sand storm ,
that amount for her was enough to have a temp. roof. -- but i wont call it a house.
--------------------------------


anyways that 2$ life :

i wont call that living - that life is worst than death- you are suffering life in those conditions. trying pass this disease called living given to you by almighty

Thank u very much for this post

specially for this....

anyways that 2$ life :

i wont call that living - that life is worst than death- you are suffering life in those conditions. trying pass this disease called living given to you by almighty

 

[R.A.W.]

point remains ur justifying that so what ppl in India earn 2 dollar they are at least alive they dont die, very cool, there are Constitutions every where i as Skeptic defined that are many projects, its the implementation that matters, now if u say that these health units are all free then sorry man u need to wake up & moreover can u see the poplutaion vs health unit Ratio & btw the health care 'massage' is HILARIOUS & stupid at the same time , now coming to education the schools u qouted how many(number) students get admissions here & u think some one earning $2 can afford 15.000, suppose this money falls from heavens, Getting admission is another problem consider the Children which get their ed. from good 'Private Schools' & one those who go thru some BS school, to give same admission admission tests, i know there are exception but there is a thing called 'base of students',I willl give u an example of ur India I have a UAE based Indian Friend she is one hell of a Genius but she didnt got Admission in IIT, meaning a student with a good base can be left out coz there is extreme kinda competition there here those ppl with two dollar cant compete (removing exceptions)

Life isn't a simple Mathematical Equation

Its an equation every one cant solve and this Equation has not Infinite variables, not 10 or 20,....
Humans every where are same or u ppl live with angels in India, even if i accept that no one dies of hunger, is Hunger the only God damn Thing left for a person to think about, Plz man don't do this, Plz...
saying that in other countries ppl die but in ours they dont is really just..... U know... Its like saying my evil is smaller

I think I must repeat this...
Before French Revolution, a Princess saw ppl wailing & protesting about their poverty, she asked Guards whats wrong them...
Guard:" they say they don't get enough Bread to eat"
Princess:" So what, say them to eat Pastries"

IS it really hard for you to understand that no one is justfying poverty here. It is as simple as if you have 2$ you can survive very well in India

The main reason for children not attending the schools are as follows
1. Parents are ignorant and they want to earn more.
2. The child himself is the sole earner in the family.
3. Or in case the condition is really bad for them.

Now when we calculate the 42% of population below poverty line we on the basis of 2$ mark we equally divide the amount among all. there are certain people who dont earn at all. but the amount is the average to these 42%.

And affording Rs. 15 comes from the logic of a nuclear family.

And no one is claiming to the educational uplift with the same amount of money in hands of people. No one said that the same student would be of the stature of IIT and IIM.

You need to understand the context which I am saying. I repeat it again for you

"If you have 2$ per head within a nuclear family you do not have sleep empty stomach in India" To elaborate you can have elementary education not the IIT level, you can elementary consultation of doctor not the bypass surgery, you can have vegetable chappati not lobsters with french wine.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

@ Skeptic -

@emo_girl -
& ONE MORE THING
will u start living on one dollar, of course u wont, poverty is a curse EVERY WHERE(well it be Pak, India or what ever), only ppl who go thru it know it, most of the ppl here on this forum have almost all the 'luxuries' of life we cannot feel the pain ppl suffer & things they do to make themselves rich, but we can very easily justify that u can live on "$1" wow man, hats for u

Advaita : Madam really doubt if R.W.A is trying to justify poverty
Also poverty is not a curse. Misery is. IMO Both quite different.
Also poverty was the natural state of pretty much everybody all through history.
Also most Indians in the forum have seen poverty if not themselves then in their families.

Was defining a simple point,
Poverty is a CURSE, u want to see what poverty can make ppl do, I made a thread about it, have a look...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/34021-what-poverty-can-make-people-do.html


@ R.A.W
I never said that, Read post by Skeptic & my first post again, Evil is evil well it a small or Big & read the last lines Dhutmaish, thats what i m trying to say....

 

[Ruag]

First of all get your facts right. Overall India's Average Per Capita Income is 38000 which includes you Ambanis, Tatas and Birlas. And this adds upto approximately 3000 per month. The discussion was supposed to be about the poor who are earning less than $2 Purchasing Power Parity.
Refer to: Purchasing power parity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the poor class (between 28.5 to 50 &#37 the average income would be closer to Rs. 30-40 per day. And yes they are poor and yes we need to do more about them. There is no point in plain chest thumping while sharing the pedestal with 60 crore people who earn less than 35 rupees per day.

Rs. 100 / 90 per day is a fictitious number with no logical reasoning. Yes there are a huge number of poor people in India and I think this is an attempt to underplay their plight.

Just stop arguing for the sake of arguing. Nobody here, especially me, tried to undermine the plight of Indians. I, of all the people, am well aware of the fact that ~33% of Indians live on less than $1/day (WB 2007).

Next time if you care to reply to my comment, make an effort to read it properly.

And if you are so concerned about getting facts right, also bother about mentioning your sources. The per capita income nominal for India is $1,016 (IMF 2008) and $2,762 PPP (IMF 2008). For PPP, Indian per capita income in 2009 exchange rates is closer to Rs. 135,000/year. Wonder from where did the Rs. 38,000/year PPP figure came?

Anyways...

 

[duhastmish]

btw - guys do u know patatoes - i was told by someone their cost have gone up to - a $ per kg, and electricity is i think 1 unit for - 5 rupees .

a lpg -gas cylender ( they still use those red - lpg bomb in india-lol ) - cost about 10$ ,

petrol is about a 1$ per ltr.

nowwhat about cloths , your festivals , your custom or ritual , your gifts , marriage of a daughter ( thats the biggest pain in the bottom of a south asian parent ), their education , their madicine , their house hold stuff like furniture etc. holdiay ???? i mean - how can one justify 2$ life style to be good enough to live.

 

[Iron_Eagle_17]

Beg to differ here - Health Care is infact cheap and heavily subsidized. A person needs to pay Rs 2 to Rs. 5 to get a prescription in Govt hospitals and yes even the medication are provided at very subsidized rates / free.

Regarding Schools, If anyone does get admission to any of the medical / engg colleges, yes there is a way out. He can avail educational loans upto 7 Lacks without presenting any collateral. Yes the condition in some of the govt. school is pity full with very small number of teachers and I have always wondered - what has prevented filling up those seats when we have such a huge buffer of unemployed graduates / post Graduates who will give an arm and an eye for any govt. Job.

Even the Govt. Schools in cities are not problematic, infact children of some senior govt officials (specially who are transferred frequently) study in govt. schools. But the main problem is we completely forget about the rural areas in development. They are the one's lacking
amenities and there is where about 65% of Indian population lives.

To be very honest the Rural Vs Urban divide is far wider than any other in India currently.

I respect your honesty man...BUT some of our INDIAN friends are having trouble digesting the facts that emo_girl just highlighted.
It is a fact that all mathematical figures and ananalysis provided by R.A.W has tooooooo many variables , if he has some doubts about it he should better try spending a day with just $2 i tel you man its like killing your self....
Also in your post talking about health cost.....it might be cheaper to get a prescription hell medication is very very cheap in pakistan.... But ....(And its a huge one)....proper medical care is independant of variables like prescription just count how many doctors are serving an area then take a ratio against the population of the area ... this will give you some idea of how little time a doctor would give to a patient if he is bound to serve all....
The fact remains and it is true for pakistan as welll.....
The normal political rants about people living on 3000 a month..,is BS...How can someone who has never seen poverty decide what and how much someone can live in......
Regards

 

[DaRk WaVe]

btw - guys do u know patatoes - i was told by someone their cost have gone up to - a $ per kg, and electricity is i think 1 unit for - 5 rupees .

a lpg -gas cylender ( they still use those red - lpg bomb in india-lol ) - cost about 10$ ,

petrol is about a 1$ per ltr.

nowwhat about cloths , your festivals , your custom or ritual , your gifts , marriage of a daughter ( thats the biggest pain in the bottom of a south asian parent ), their education , their madicine , their house hold stuff like furniture etc. holdiay ???? i mean - how can one justify 2$ life style to be good enough to live.

Life is a mathematical Equation with INFINITE variables
Thanks again

 

[Skeptic]

life sucks for the poor of india and pakistan.

2 $ is average - and then there are people like me - who spend 25-30$ a day on their car fuel alone.

there are too many poor here - when i came back to india after many years my last visit was 8 yrs back.
i was in delhi for most of the time - had the india shining picture in front of me.

after 5-6 months i visited - MP (state) , i was having my food and threw the left over - two kids - totally naked came and picked it up and ate it.

----- i saw people running in small piece of cloth - because they dont have much to wear. after that my view changed-

people here die because of cold - in winter ( no cloths)

due to heat - in summer

due to flood - in rain

rest of the time they die due to poveryt , hunger , no madicine , lack of roof and other basics.

------------------------------

u cant live on bread and shelter - even a pig - spend his life like that - eat and crap .

these stats prove nothing - life is horrible here. just go out and ask.

i gave my maid a sum of about 50$ , i.e 2500 rupee, because her house or that thing - she call house was blown due to - sand storm ,
that amount for her was enough to have a temp. roof. -- but i wont call it a house.
--------------------------------


anyways that 2$ life :

i wont call that living - that life is worst than death- you are suffering life in those conditions. trying pass this disease called living given to you by almighty

Very close to my sentiments. What are we feeding to these poors Statistics. We tell then okay we only have 26.86% poors down from 27.5 last year. That is simply pityful.

I am never ashamed of accepting the poverty which exists around us but I feel ashamed of their living condition, which we are yet to achieve after 62 years of freedom.

As Rajeev Gandhi pointed out that hardly 16 paise of one rupee spent reaches the destination. Now it seems the numbers have dwindles to some 5 paisa from a rupee. We have a pathetic distribution network where govt coffers are full with grains and people are dying of malnutrition. Sad. True and very sad.

@advitva - I have already pointed out the issue with PPP

 

[R.A.W.]

Was defing a simple point,
Poverty is a CURSE, u want to see what poverty can make ppl do, I made a thread about it, have a look...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/34021-what-poverty-can-make-people-do.html


@ R.A.W
I never said that, Read post by Skeptic & my first post again, Evil is evil well it a small or Big & read the last lines Dhutmaish, thats what i m trying to say....

offffffffffffffffffff GUYS TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


I m not saying people are not dying of hunger. I am not denying skeptic. Neither I am saying that people are happy about it.

What I am saying is that if you have 2$ you can live........... Thats it.......................... You dont have to be hungry at the end of the day.


Yaar all you guys are taking it for wrong. I meant it something else and you guys are taking it for something else.

 

[Iron_Eagle_17]

Very close to my sentiments. What are we feeding to these poors Statistics. We tell then okay we only have 26.86% poors down from 27.5 last year. That is simply pityful.

I am never ashamed of accepting the poverty which exists around us but I feel ashamed of their living condition, which we are yet to achieve after 62 years of freedom.

As Rajeev Gandhi pointed out that hardly 16 paise of one rupee spent reaches the destination. Now it seems the numbers have dwindles to some 5 paisa from a rupee. We have a pathetic distribution network where govt coffers are full with grains and people are dying of malnutrition. Sad. True and very sad.

@advitva - I have already pointed out the issue with PPP

You are very right a statistician can play with number he can change results the mere drop in percentage might please some kids but break this cypher code and reality is MILLIONS living in poverty.