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Marines issue: Italy may recall ambassador to India

Didn't Italy recently captured some Indians off their coast? This is gonna get ugly.


yes, we captured 18 indian sailors and hold them in prison. The ship they served on did hold drugs. We only arrested the indian crew members so far. The investigation will take a very long time...a veryy long time.

First you cant just make a person a diplomat. To get diplomatic immunity, you have to present your credentials to the indian foreign office and then if they accept it you get the diplomatic status, which i have a feeling they wont give.

How can this ever be low profile? If the marine is returned to italy then then india will would have surrendered, and modi will pay a heavy political price or the marine will be sent to jail and the indo-italian relation will pay the price.

Keeping it low profile is impossible....


Italy is in the positive situation to have two voices in all international organisations. As the italian republic and as the holy see. So you actually can make a person a diplomat. Italy would present the credentials to the vatican and the holy see would accept it. In italy the holy see and our "worldly government" are deeply connected. Things like this were already done in the past and you can see how much the vatican influences this entire case already.
 
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First you cant just make a person a diplomat. To get diplomatic immunity, you have to present your credentials to the indian foreign office and then if they accept it you get the diplomatic status, which i have a feeling they wont give.

How can this ever be low profile? If the marine is returned to italy then then india will would have surrendered, and modi will pay a heavy political price or the marine will be sent to jail and the indo-italian relation will pay the price.

Keeping it low profile is impossible....

Diplomatic immunity is mutual.....two way street as agreed by the Vienna convention. It is not up to India to decide.......if India refuses diplomatic recognition and immunity then Italy can do the same as well.
 
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How many times does
Markus need to tell you that Italy, and any none Indians frankly, do not recognize the Indian Supreme Court. They have no authority to decide the fate of the Italian marines.

The incident took place inside Indian waters and the fishermen were Indian national and this is the reason the trail has to be taken place in Supreme court of India.

yes, we captured 18 indian sailors and hold them in prison. The ship they served on did hold drugs. We only arrested the indian crew members so far. The investigation will take a very long time...a veryy long time..

When this incident took place , can you give some source ?

Italian Marine undergoes heart surgery in Italy, days before return | Zee News
Monday, January 5, 2015

Rome: One of the two Italian marines, accused of killing two Indian fishermen in 2012, underwent a heart surgery on Monday in Milan to correct a cardiac anomaly, days before his scheduled return to India.

Massimiliano Latorre underwent heart surgery this morning in Milan to correct a cardiac anomaly that had "a positive outcome", Italian news agency ANSA quoted sources at the Policlinico di San Donato hospital as saying.

Latorre was hospitalised on Friday. He has been in Italy after India's Supreme Court allowed him to go to his home country on September 12 for four months for medical treatment and recovery following a stroke he suffered in India on August 31.

Latorre then sought an extension of his stay citing his heart surgery.

The Supreme Court last month refused the pleas of murder accused Latorre seeking extension of his stay in Italy on health grounds and his fellow marine co-accused Marine Salvatore Girone the permission to travel there for Christmas, saying they cannot get such a "leeway".

The two Italian marines, accused of killing two fishermen off Kerala in 2012, maintain that they fired at them after mistaking them for pirates while guarding an Italian oil tanker.

The marines had been living in the Italian embassy in New Delhi since then waiting to be tried, and were not supposed to leave the country.

The situation has led to tense relations between India and Italy, which says that India has no jurisdiction in the case.

PTI
 
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Latorre will not leave italy. That was already made clear. He just had a surgery and will not fly around the world. This nonsense ends now.
 
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Latorre will not leave italy. That was already made clear. He just had a surgery and will not fly around the world. This nonsense ends now.

Italian Government has given assurances that Italian marines will return back to India to stand trial.

By the way , can you give source for the 18 Indians arrested in Italy ?
 
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Italian Government has given assurances that Italian marines will return back to India to stand trial.

By the way , can you give source for the 18 Indians arrested in Italy ?

no i can not, Im on my phone, All i know is it happened in june in strait of sicily. Beside that latorre had a surgery on his heart. He will not fly 13 hours to face a comedy court. That was already made clear. It is better to have an end with terror than terror without end. Italy played long enough nice in this muppet theatre.
 
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UN won't get involved with Italian marines facing trial in India

United Nations, Jan 6, 2015 (IANS)
451869_thump.jpg

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon's spokesman refused Monday to be drawn into the controversy surrounding the two Italian marines facing trial in India over the killing of two fisherman off the Kerala coast amid reports that the Italian prime minister has asserted that a "direct channel" had been opened with New Delhi raising hopes of a settlement.

Asked by a reporter if Ban had recently taken any initiative in the issue or if he still considered it a bilateral matter between India and Italy, the spokesman, Stephane Dujarric, said, tersely, "I have nothing to add to what he's already said on the issue."

Despite several high-level requests by the Italians to intervene, Ban has maintained that "it's better for the question to be addressed bilaterally, rather than with the involvement of the UN," according to reports in the Italian media.

Ban's statement made in February last year was similar to comments made on his behalf by spokesmen in 2013 and last year.

Reports from Rome said Prime Minister Matteo Renzi told a year-end press conference last week that a "direct channel" had been opened with India and that it has raised the the possibility of resolving the almost three-year-old issue.

The Italian news agency, ANSA, reported that Italian Premier Matteo Renzi said, "India, a friend and ally of Italy, has in recent hours opened a direct channel of discussion, with statements that we've appreciated."

ANSA added that according to Renzi India's statements about the case may indicate a new opening for resolution.

Although he did not give further details about the statements, ANSA reported, "Diplomatic sources said that he was evidently (referring to) remarks by Indian Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj, who said shortly before Christmas that New Delhi was 'studying' an Italian proposal for a consensual solution to the dispute."

The agency added that Italian Ambassador to India, Daniele Mancini, was recently in Italy for two weeks of consultations.

The two marines, Chef Master Sgt. Massimiliano Latorre and Sgt. Salvatore Girone are accused of killing two fisherman off the Kerala coast in February 2012 while they were guarding an Italian tanker, Enrica Lexie, traveling from Singapore to Egypt. The Marines said they thought the fishermen were pirates.

Italy asserts that the incident took place in international waters and, therefore, the Marines should be tried in Italy or in an international court. India, however, maintains that it can try them because it says the killings happened in coastal waters under Indian jurisdiction and the victims were Indians.

Latorre and Girone have been out on bail and allowed to stay in the Italian embassy in New Delhi while awaiting progress in their case.

ANSA also reported that Latore, who was permitted by Indian Supreme Court to visit Italy for medical treatment, "was successfully operated on to plug a small hole in his heart, a condition that is quite common and easily fixed with non-invasive heart surgery" last week according to doctors at a Milan hospital.

At his press conference, Renzi had urged Italian media and politicians to stay calm and not prvoke a confrontation.

ANSA quoted him as saying, "In order to resolve this issue it will be useful to maintain the tone appropriate to legitimate diplomatic and legal channels, without unnecessary displays or useless political initiatives - like some I have seen (undertaken) by ministers of preceding governments, which beggared belief."

Renzi of the Democratic Paty, who became prime minister last February has appealed directly to Prime Minister Narendra Modi to help resolve the issue.

no i can not, Im on my phone, All i know is it happened in june in strait of sicily. Beside that latorre had a surgery on his heart. He will not fly 13 hours to face a comedy court. That was already made clear. It is better to have an end with terror than terror without end. Italy played long enough nice in this muppet theatre.

I have checked after you said about the arrest of Indians by Italy forces but was not able to find any source. Kindly try to post the source.

Italian marines have to face trail in India and on this basis only both the marines were granted bail and were allowed to travel back to Italy.
 
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Italian marines case: Latorre moves SC for extension of stay in Italy | Zee News
Wednesday, January 7, 2015 - 16:44

New Delhi: Massimiliano Latorre, one of the two Italian marines accused of killing two Indian fishermen off the Kerala coast in 2012, Wednesday, moved the Supreme Court seeking extension of his stay in Italy on grounds of undergoing a heart surgery on January 5.

The bench comprising Chief Justice HL Dattu and Justice AK Sikri, which had earlier refused to grant the extension to Latorre, agreed to hear his plea on Monday.

Senior advocate KTS Tulsi, appearing for Latorre, mentioned the fresh plea and sought urgent hearing saying that the marine, whose surgery was scheduled on January 8 in Italy, had to get it advanced due to medical urgency.

The case against marines pertains to the killing of two Indian fishermen allegedly by Latorre and Girone on board ship 'Enrica Lexie' off Kerala coast on February 15, 2012.

Earlier, the court had refused the plea of Latorre seeking extension of his stay in Italy on health grounds.

It had also rejected the plea of co-accused Marine Salvatore Girone who had sought the apex court's nod to go to Italy to celebrate Christmas saying they cannot get such "leeway".

Latorre was allowed by the apex court to go to Italy on September 12, last year for four months for medical treatment and recovery after he suffered a stroke here on August 31.

Later, Latorre had sought extension on the ground of scheduled heart surgery on January 8, which was denied.

"Please ask him (Latorre) to come back. He has to come back. We cannot say that he should undergo surgery here. By now he should have got the surgery done. One more medical certificate, one more heart surgery... Victim also has a right. You can not get the leeway. It can't happen like that," the court had said.

Earlier on September 12, the apex court had allowed Lattore to travel to his country for his "more rapid and complete recovery" after he had suffered brain stroke on August 31.

The complaint was lodged by Freddy, the owner of the fishing boat 'St Antony', in which the two Indian fishermen were killed when the marines started firing on them allegedly under the misconception that they were pirates.
 
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no i can not, Im on my phone, All i know is it happened in june in strait of sicily. Beside that latorre had a surgery on his heart. He will not fly 13 hours to face a comedy court. That was already made clear. It is better to have an end with terror than terror without end. Italy played long enough nice in this muppet theatre.
You know your words are all hot air, your marines will come and take part in the court proceedings, you can throw tantrums around but eventually they have to come around, as this is a criminal case, you can arrest Indian sailors for smuggling drugs on a ship and if it is found that they were arrested as vendetta, then all Italian ships passing through the Malacca straits and Indian ocean will be arrested on charges of supplying illegal weapons and drugs, and they will be put in Indian jails for a very, very long time.
Two can play this game.
It is upto your nation how far it wants to go. Already they botched up before when the Italy said, Marines won't return back, then our Supreme court ordered to arrest your Ambassador who gave assurance to the court that marines will return back, in the end your nation had to eat their own words and send back those marines, or have your Ambassador arrested for contempt of the court.
You can only hope the other marine won't return, but in the end he will have to come and face the court there is no escaping from this case.

UN won't get involved with Italian marines facing trial in India

United Nations, Jan 6, 2015 (IANS)
451869_thump.jpg

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon's spokesman refused Monday to be drawn into the controversy surrounding the two Italian marines facing trial in India over the killing of two fisherman off the Kerala coast amid reports that the Italian prime minister has asserted that a "direct channel" had been opened with New Delhi raising hopes of a settlement.

Asked by a reporter if Ban had recently taken any initiative in the issue or if he still considered it a bilateral matter between India and Italy, the spokesman, Stephane Dujarric, said, tersely, "I have nothing to add to what he's already said on the issue."

Despite several high-level requests by the Italians to intervene, Ban has maintained that "it's better for the question to be addressed bilaterally, rather than with the involvement of the UN," according to reports in the Italian media.

Ban's statement made in February last year was similar to comments made on his behalf by spokesmen in 2013 and last year.

Reports from Rome said Prime Minister Matteo Renzi told a year-end press conference last week that a "direct channel" had been opened with India and that it has raised the the possibility of resolving the almost three-year-old issue.

The Italian news agency, ANSA, reported that Italian Premier Matteo Renzi said, "India, a friend and ally of Italy, has in recent hours opened a direct channel of discussion, with statements that we've appreciated."

ANSA added that according to Renzi India's statements about the case may indicate a new opening for resolution.

Although he did not give further details about the statements, ANSA reported, "Diplomatic sources said that he was evidently (referring to) remarks by Indian Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj, who said shortly before Christmas that New Delhi was 'studying' an Italian proposal for a consensual solution to the dispute."

The agency added that Italian Ambassador to India, Daniele Mancini, was recently in Italy for two weeks of consultations.

The two marines, Chef Master Sgt. Massimiliano Latorre and Sgt. Salvatore Girone are accused of killing two fisherman off the Kerala coast in February 2012 while they were guarding an Italian tanker, Enrica Lexie, traveling from Singapore to Egypt. The Marines said they thought the fishermen were pirates.

Italy asserts that the incident took place in international waters and, therefore, the Marines should be tried in Italy or in an international court. India, however, maintains that it can try them because it says the killings happened in coastal waters under Indian jurisdiction and the victims were Indians.

Latorre and Girone have been out on bail and allowed to stay in the Italian embassy in New Delhi while awaiting progress in their case.

ANSA also reported that Latore, who was permitted by Indian Supreme Court to visit Italy for medical treatment, "was successfully operated on to plug a small hole in his heart, a condition that is quite common and easily fixed with non-invasive heart surgery" last week according to doctors at a Milan hospital.

At his press conference, Renzi had urged Italian media and politicians to stay calm and not prvoke a confrontation.

ANSA quoted him as saying, "In order to resolve this issue it will be useful to maintain the tone appropriate to legitimate diplomatic and legal channels, without unnecessary displays or useless political initiatives - like some I have seen (undertaken) by ministers of preceding governments, which beggared belief."

Renzi of the Democratic Paty, who became prime minister last February has appealed directly to Prime Minister Narendra Modi to help resolve the issue.



I have checked after you said about the arrest of Indians by Italy forces but was not able to find any source. Kindly try to post the source.

Italian marines have to face trail in India and on this basis only both the marines were granted bail and were allowed to travel back to Italy.
This guy is all hot air, he thinks his nation is so great that they can get away with murder,apparently not, the court wont let him without facing a trial.
If the vatican intervenes, as he says in this matter then it will risk antagonizing the christians in India. It will throw a massive spanner in Vatican and Evangelist drive to harvest souls for christianity and Vatican knows it, it won't interfere to save two Italian marines and risk losing thousands of converts, if it does, it will give a big platform to Nationalists on Media and elsewhere, where they will use it to blast Vatican policies and how it interferes in Indian matters ,considers Indian Christians as second class christians when compared to Italian christians and further stall and stop the missonary conversions.They are our citizens after all,Also use it as beating stick to beat Italian Sonia Gandhi and Congress as they let this fiasco happen, Congress will dented further and lose its face in public. All of this will blowback big time on Italy and Vatican.
trust me that is very counter productive.

As evident from the UN general , Ban-ki-Moon's message who didn't want to be drawn into this issue.UN won't interfere and even EU won't as they have bigger problems like Ukraine,PUTIN,Greece being kicked out of EU etc.
This kind of blackmail by Italy wont work long, they have to eventually return and face the court,they cannot escape it.
 
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This guy is all hot air, he thinks his nation is so great that they can get away with murder,apparently not, the court wont let him without facing a trial.
If the vatican intervenes, as he says in this matter then it will risk antagonizing the christians in India. It will throw a massive spanner in Vatican and Evangelist drive to harvest souls for christianity and Vatican knows it, it won't interfere to save two Italian marines and risk losing thousands of converts, if it does, it will give a big platform to Nationalists on Media and elsewhere, where they will use it to blast Vatican policies and how it interferes in Indian matters ,considers Indian Christians as second class christians when compared to Italian christians and further stall and stop the missonary conversions.They are our citizens after all,Also use it as beating stick to beat Italian Sonia Gandhi and Congress as they let this fiasco happen, Congress will dented further and lose its face in public. All of this will blowback big time on Italy and Vatican.
trust me that is very counter productive.

As evident from the UN general , Ban-ki-Moon's message who didn't want to be drawn into this issue.UN won't interfere and even EU won't as they have bigger problems like Ukraine,PUTIN,Greece being kicked out of EU etc.
This kind of blackmail by Italy wont work long, they have to eventually return and face the court,they cannot escape it.

With time Italian marines will return back to India and face trail because relations with India important not only for Italy but even for EU and NATO.
 
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With time Italian marines will return back to India and face trail because relations with important not only for Italy but even for EU and NATO.
Yeah that's obvious in the end.
But this guy was blowing hot air inflating his ego trying to show how a superpower Italy could bully India.
This is not the Colonial India as he thinks,this is a Independent India and we don't give a shite to anyone when our citizens are killed,they will face our law and court and then its upto the courts to decide.
EU nor Italy are not that foolish to spoil relations with India just for 2 Marines who are criminally charged for killing two Innocent Indian fishermen in Indian territorial waters.If they want to spoil the relations with India,they will be the biggest losers ,Threatening with economy won't work here,They will lose the opportunity to invest and reap benefits in a Huge market and fast,developing economy like India
 
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Yeah that's obvious in the end.
But this guy was blowing hot air inflating his ego trying to show how a superpower Italy could bully India.
This is not the Colonial India as he thinks,this is a Independent India and we don't give a shite to anyone when our citizens are killed,they will face our law and court and then its upto the courts to decide.
EU nor Italy are not that foolish to spoil relations with India just for 2 Marines who are criminally charged for killing two Innocent Indian fishermen in Indian territorial waters.If they want to spoil the relations with India,they will be the biggest losers ,Threatening with economy won't work here,They will lose the opportunity to invest and reap benefits in a Huge market and fast,developing economy like India



There are many cases running in International tribunal about Exclusive Economic Zones maritime boundaries and about
United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. Indian Maritime Zone exclusive economic Zone is 200 nautical miles and Indian fishermen were killed inside Indian waters and this whole case is about this only.
 
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There are many cases running in International tribunal about Exclusive Economic Zones maritime boundaries and about
United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. Indian Maritime Zone exclusive economic Zone is 200 nautical miles and Indian fishermen were killed inside Indian waters and this whole case is about this only.
Yep, and the Italians were trying to show that Indian Maritime Zone was wrong and they were killed in International waters and they should be tried in Italy and International courts,where they will be let off easily on grounds of mistaken identity and defending against a supposed pirate attack.
 
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Yep, and the Italians were trying to show that Indian Maritime Zone was wrong and they were killed in International waters and they should be tried in Italy and International courts,where they will be let off easily on grounds of mistaken identity and defending against a supposed pirate attack.

I think when this incident took place in which the Indian fishermen were killed in Indian waters that time , Italian marines who were employed by that Italian company were not aware about the status of EEZ, was it implemented or not ?
 
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I think when this incident took place in which the Indian fishermen were killed in Indian waters that time , Italian marines who were employed by that Italian company were not aware about the status of EEZ, was it implemented or not ?
Yes they were not aware of the EEZ and according to Kerala police they were drunk and shot for fun as reported in local news papers.

Italy, India Clash Over Ocean Shooting - WSJ
This will explain the case.
Italy says its a Case in International waters and therefore cannot be tried in India, While India says the Incident took place in its maritime boundary and those were private armed guards and the victims were Indians.So they have to be tried in Indian courts as per Indian law.
 
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