Manufacturing Details Stall Franco-Indian MMCRA Negotiations

[Tshering22]

I hate this bullying by GOI where they ensure that all the goodies go to no-good sarkari crap PSUs rather than enterprising new private sector who could outstrip them in a matter of a decade provided there is even competition.

Sarkaris know that private firms are far better than the quota/reservation-based PSUs and with level-playing technological assistance to both, they will be outstripped in a matter of years.

I really hope this doesn't delay Rafale's joining date. We are virtually out of planes.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

This deal will be done mid next year,but more than just 18 initial fighters will be manufactured in france to speed up acquisition as HAL doesn't have infrastructure or ability to manufacture whole plane in india itself.And also becasue its production lines are already packed with MKis,and newer ones are only being opened.

 

[newdelhinsa]

How deals with Russia goes well but with others get stalled. No one knew when we bought Sukhoi of the shelf and then started manufacturing them at home ? ? ? ?

 

[perplexed]

How deals with Russia goes well but with others get stalled. No one knew when we bought Sukhoi of the shelf and then started manufacturing them at home ? ? ? ?

because they accepted our terms right away !!

 

[Sergi]

because they accepted our terms right away !!

And screw us later

How deals with Russia goes well but with others get stalled. No one knew when we bought Sukhoi of the shelf and then started manufacturing them at home ? ? ? ?

Indo Russian relations go decades back. We have good understanding and trust. Russians aren't protective if their tech as much as the Europe or US.

 

[Sergi]

This deal will be done mid next year,but more than just 18 initial fighters will be manufactured in france to speed up acquisition as HAL doesn't have infrastructure or ability to manufacture whole plane in india itself.And also becasue its production lines are already packed with MKis,and newer ones are only being opened.

Everybody from both sides is saying they will wrap up the deal this finatial year. So expect it before April,2013

 

[Sergi]

I hate this bullying by GOI where they ensure that all the goodies go to no-good sarkari crap PSUs rather than enterprising new private sector who could outstrip them in a matter of a decade provided there is even competition.

Sarkaris know that private firms are far better than the quota/reservation-based PSUs and with level-playing technological assistance to both, they will be outstripped in a matter of years.

I really hope this doesn't delay Rafale's joining date. We are virtually out of planes.

After the first off-shelf delivery France will deliver us some planes in semi knock down kits which HAL will put together. So within the 4 years we will have 3/4 operating Squd of Rafale.

Processes will be similar to MKIs. First few in semi knock down kits later few in full knock down kitts and then production from scratch. So I guess if we sign this FY HAL will need some 3/4 years to start producing from scratch but till then we will have some operational squd in IAF

 

[anant_s]

This deal is gigantic to say the least and when concluded the production is expected to run atleast till 2020 (if not beyond). Under such circumstances, it would be important for both sides to be patient and flexible. Its almost a giveaway that HAL is not the best partner Dassault would hope to work with, but then how many $ 20 Billion prospective order are on the horizon.
My assessment to the whole situation is that its perhaps the price issue that is yet to be sorted out. As far as technology is concerned, former French President Sarkozy went on to record indicating all transfer of technologies.
The Rafale has been selected thanks to the aircraft’s competitive life-cycle costs, after the April 2011 pre-selection on the basis of its top-level operational performance. The negotiation of the contract will begin very soon and has the full support of the French authorities. It will include important technology transfers guaranteed by the French government.
And i'm sure French government is aware of the fact that any unfortunate outcome of this deal will have ramifications for submarine and tanker deals as well. If the deal doesnot go through, it will be shame for defence and govt establishment but a disaster for Dassault and dare i say french defence industry as whole.
For both party's sake hope thats not the case.

 

[anant_s]

Everybody from both sides is saying they will wrap up the deal this finatial year. So expect it before April,2013

Amen!

 

[rockstarIN]

May be it is a tactic to get the French in line using the '2014 election' card. They knew how things will work in India and will be ready for concessions.

 

[zaxcolix]

I prefer beef. It is high protein. Maybe you should try it.

..thank you but I am an vegetarian and we consider Cow holy so I cant eat beef.

However you still haven't told me if chinese eat Pigs.

 

[Speeder 2]

As I expected, India has always suffered from the illusion that it can while it can not, by a long shot.

Aviation industry is the crown jewel of entire modern industries, achievements of scientific research in all major areas along with massive underlying modern infras and capability of human resources, which India has next to none, call centres aside.

Indeed what India has currently can not independently reverse engineer, build and maintain a proper mig-21.

This fact has been acutely reflected from India's eternal struggle with LCA tejas - a mig-21-plus in essence.

That's the truth. Isn't it very telling already?

To build Rafale inside India is about equivalent to ask Dassault to build entire France (all major industries + scicentific knowhow + all related national infrastructure) inside India. Are DRDO and HAL nuts?

 

[SinoChallenger]

Why set yourself up for a massive fall mate?

LOL China already test flew J-20 while india took 6 years to make a purchase decision! Fact is india is flat broke. J-20, J-31, maybe Pakistani J-31 will be in service before indian Rafale.

 

[Koovie]

As I expected, India has always suffered from the illusion that it can while it can not, by a long shot.

Aviation industry is the crown jewel of entire modern industries, achievements of scientific research in all major areas along with massive underlying modern infras and capability of human resources, which India has next to none, call centres aside.

Indeed what India has currently can not independently reverse engineer, build and maintain a proper mig-21.

This fact has been acutely reflected from India's eternal struggle with LCA tejas - a mig-21-plus in essence.

That's the truth. Isn't it very telling already?

To build Rafale inside India is about equivalent to ask Dassault to build entire France (all major industries + scicentific knowhow + all related national infrastructure) inside India. Are DRDO and HAL nuts?

We have built hundreds of Jaguars, Su 30 MKIs, HAWKs and other aircraft in licence. And we did not come up with the ToT requirements when the negotiations started. The ToT rules and the offset clause were clear from the very beginning.

 

[Speeder 2]

We have built hundreds of Jaguars, Su 30 MKIs, HAWKs and other aircraft in licence. And we did not come up with the ToT requirements when the negotiations started. The ToT rules and the offset clause were clear from the very beginning.

Those ToTs mean exclusively assembling non-essential parts and paint jobs, you know it.

I mentioned LCA and Mig example. Acutally it's an insult to mig-21.

Soviet at its hey days built mig-21, which is still a living legend, a headache even for the US at a time.

Are you seriously think that India's current heavy industrial capability, basic scientific research knowhow, massive indsutrial infras and skilled human resources across the board are anywhere close to the 70's Soviet Union?

Currently India is not anywhere close to semi-industrialised, but is primarily an agricultural country (depending on Monsoon) with some ad-hoc backoffice call centres. That's the reason why.