Manmohan Singh's hypocrisy

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pretty hypocritical since it is Pakistani soil being used for terrorism.
You actually expect India to talk when were attacked by Pakistani elements?
Unless Pakistan takes steps to dismantle it's terror network there should be no talks. De linking Composite dialogue is akin to letting Pakistan go scot free.

Your government and leaders shouldn't have included that in the joint statement then should they?

I think what is obvious from the hypocrisy on display from the Indian leadership is that they fed a bunch of lies to the Indian people about any state complicity on the part of Pakistan in the Mumbai attacks, and that they agree with Pakistan's stance - why else include that in the joint statement if they did not agree with Pakistan's position.

Everything else is just for public consumption, since bashing Pakistan gets votes apparently from a brain washed public. Hopefully there are more sane people than those who are brainwashed in India.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You expect India's internal affairs to be dictated by a decades old resolution.Trust me if Kashmir was to have been resolved it would have been.

Just an example of more hypocrisy and violation of bilateral and international commitments by India.

Then we had the issue of distribution of resources, the invasions of Junagdh and Hyderbad ....

 

[glomex]

Why make a mountain of a mole...

Pakistan makes a statement ...and then backs out.....India makes a statement and then backs out.....simple......we are back to square one......

Anyways have fun fighting over things you guys have no control over....its been like this for past 60 yrs and may be its going to be same for next 100....by then our generation would be dead and gone....and we will pass on this hate as a legacy to our kids for them to carry on fighting.....

 

[MFI]

Your government and leaders shouldn't have included that in the joint statement then should they?

I think what is obvious from the hypocrisy on display from the Indian leadership is that they fed a bunch of lies to the Indian people about any state complicity on the part of Pakistan in the Mumbai attacks, and that they agree with Pakistan's stance - why else include that in the joint statement if they did not agree with Pakistan's position.

Everything else is just for public consumption, since bashing Pakistan gets votes apparently from a brain washed public. Hopefully there are more sane people than those who are brainwashed in India.

Our government and leader stated that no talks till Pakistan acts on terror and there will be nothing on the contrary.Also it will not be allowed by the opposition.

What is obvious to you is of no consequence Sir.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Glomex,

Singh saying that he may visit Pakistan for talks (for example) and then changing his mind is entirely different from official statements, declarations and commitments.

Someone correctly pointed out that Kargil was a violation in that respect, and i agree. Its just that prior to that we had seen Siachen as a violation of the Simla agreement's commitment to peace and dialog for resolving disputes.

I think it is time that the two sides implement their declared positions - as I pointed out, Pakistan has shown tangibly that it is cooperating on reducing the insurgency in Kashmir.

It is now India's turn to show sincerity and engage in dialog on Kashmir and compromise. The status quo is not acceptable to Pakistan, a loss of all of J&K is not acceptable to India, so we have to find middle ground on some of the various suggestions offered.

 

[MFI]

Just an example of more hypocrisy and violation of bilateral and international commitments by India.

Then we had the issue of distribution of resources, the invasions of Junagdh and Hyderbad ....

Kashmir is a vital and integral part of India.In this day and age no-one can meddle in India's internal affairs least of all the UN

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Our government and leader stated that no talks till Pakistan acts on terror and there will be nothing on the contrary.Also it will not be allowed by the opposition.

What is obvious to you is of no consequence Sir.

What is obvious to me is the joint statement - that statement was crafted after hours of negotiations and consultations between the leaders and other officials.

Needless to say it carries a lot of weight in terms of validating Pakistan's position.

I realize that this statement is not binding, and can be violated, but what the statement and the subsequent interview tell us is what the Indian establishment really thinks (agrees with Pakistan's position), and what it says in the press for public consumption.

 

[MFI]

But a little later, talking to a group of Indian journalists, he said that peace talks with Pakistan would remain on hold until Islamabad took action against the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks last year.

DAWN.COM | World | Singh moves to pacify Indian opposition

There can be no-talks if one side is not at the negotiating table.
It does not validate Pakistan's position until the talks are resumed.
Manmohan Singh has to answer to the Parliament and the majority are against resumption of talks.He cannot take unilateral decisions

 

[glomex]

Glomex,

Singh saying that he may visit Pakistan for talks (for example) and then changing his mind is entirely different from official statements, declarations and commitments.

Someone correctly pointed out that Kargil was a violation in that respect, and i agree. Its just that prior to that we had seen Siachen as a violation of the Simla agreement's commitment to peace and dialog for resolving disputes.

I think it is time that the two sides implement their declared positions - as I pointed out, Pakistan has shown tangibly that it is cooperating on reducing the insurgency in Kashmir.

It is now India's turn to show sincerity and engage in dialog on Kashmir and compromise. The status quo is not acceptable to Pakistan, a loss of all of J&K is not acceptable to India, so we have to find middle ground on some of the various suggestions offered.

We have hawks in our Political Class ....you have got Hawks in your political class.......one dies ....another replaces him.......

No one in both political classes wants the issue to be solved ...as this keeps the common man busy...and motivated to vote for the next time.......and people like me and you spend our lives trying to find out the most suitable solution.....

We are all a part of the same problem...and everyone wants to give a solution...but no one accepts the solution provided by the other side...same Chicken and egg story.....

I love you...and may be you love me too....but we have a glass wall in between..and no one cahn understands what the other person is saying....

Al I have to say is...

Jo dard hai tumhara ...apna bhi wahi gham hai....aaoo ki gale mil lain ...jo tum ho wahi hum hain.....

 

[ajpirzada]

wats the fight about.
lets wait an see if there will be talks before mumbai attackers are brought to justice.
i say there will be. and note it. ur gov is only sayin it for public consumption that there wont be any talks. hold ur horses and see wat happens.

 

[ajpirzada]

Kashmir is a vital and integral part of India.In this day and age no-one can meddle in India's internal affairs least of all the UN

your wish. we dont mind if things stay the way they are. u have got half a million soldiers in that valley. gud they stay there foreva commitin suicides. we ll carry on with our jihad. happy?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Here is another way to look at this, instead of thinking that one side lost and the other won.

India and Pakistan will restart the dialog process, but the dialog is not going to resolve anything in days, weeks or even months - it will likely continue for a year or so before we see meaningful progress.

That is more than enough time for Pakistan to prosecute the Mumbai accused and show tangible movement on 'terrorism' to India, which, if it happens, will validate MMS at the end of the day. After all, his term just started so he has plenty of time to show the Indian electorate that his policies will work.

Now there is also risk here for Pakistan - if terrorists are able to repeat something like Mumbai, Pakistan will likely have very little option other than to bow to international pressure and try and clamp down using extra-judicial means on the various Kashmir focussed groups, which would make the current government extremely unpopular and likely open another front against terrorism in Pakistan.

So there is a lot for both sides to lose here going forward, especially Pakistan.

 

[asq]

just following jinnahs footsteps.

your deduction about our Qiad is not acceptable as it sounds derogatory. and it is, do not equate our Qaid with Your interference in Baluchistan, as Our qaid did what he did was by the acceptance of the rulers of India than to create Pakistan, but the rulers of Pakistan now are saying you are interfering so your logic is not only faulty but is clearly based on very narrow and selfish point of view.

Till India does not see the truth about all matter pertaining to the continent problems in a vision of truthfulness, the inhabitants of subcontinent will suffer from lack of progress and of war hysteria due mainly to the Indian attitude.

 

[afriend]

Here is another way to look at this, instead of thinking that one side lost and the other won.

India and Pakistan will restart the dialog process, but the dialog is not going to resolve anything in days, weeks or even months - it will likely continue for a year or so before we see meaningful progress.

That is more than enough time for Pakistan to prosecute the Mumbai accused and show tangible movement on 'terrorism' to India, which, if it happens, will validate MMS at the end of the day. After all, his term just started so he has plenty of time to show the Indian electorate that his policies will work.

Now there is also risk here for Pakistan - if terrorists are able to repeat something like Mumbai, Pakistan will likely have very little option other than to bow to international pressure and try and clamp down using extra-judicial means on the various Kashmir focussed groups, which would make the current government extremely unpopular and likely open another front against terrorism in Pakistan.

So there is a lot for both sides to lose here going forward, especially Pakistan.

Well that is a very good way to look at it. However if pakistan shows, and proves that they have eradicated the menace of terrorism in all forms(read groups targeting india for kashmir). Then india have no reason to to continue its support for Balochistan rebels as alleged by pakistan. So its a win win situation. So i would say that proper way to approach a dialog is that, understanding that there are issues between countries, with a confidence and geninue hope of solving the issue and ensuring peace in the sub continent. We go and sit around a table.. with a mind like i will have to take remaining kashmir from them.. or i will have to break up pakistan for the support of terroism in kashmir, that won't do any good to diplomacy.

For that pakistan have to show commitment, that is not reduce but ERADICATE the terrorism against india in the form of kashmir freedom fighters. And india have to show its commitment by completely withdrawing its supporting Baluchistan(as alleged by Pakistan).

 

[Nemesis]

Why would India start the dialogue process when the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks haven't been prosecuted? What's the point of it when there is a possibility of the same thing happening again?