Manmohan Singh's hypocrisy

[Spitfighter]

Oh yes I accuse India of hypocrisy here - it is obvious.

Have we forgotten Siachen already?

No different than India's 'state policy' to support terrorists in undisputed East Pakistan and Baluchistan, along with supporting proxies in Afghanistan (Norther Alliance warlords) and Sir Lanka (LTTE).

I think I have made it amply clear above that India has been 'sooo uncooperative'. Pakistan is not the one that violated its commitments in the UNSC and refused to resolve the disputed territory of Kashmir through dialog.

Same place Taliban, Baluch militants and the East Pakistani insurgents learned them.

The support Pakistan has provided in almost eliminating cross-border infiltration and the insurgency in Kashmir belies your assertion. As of now it appears that there has been a change in state policy, based on events on the ground.

No one said anything about legitimizing terrorism, and your dialog was with Pakistan not terrorists, hence the joint statement delinking terrorism from dialog.

"Action on terrorism should not be linked to the Composite Dialogue process and these should not be bracketed."

I think the above statement is clear enough and justifies my point.

[call me stupid, but somehow I can't figure out how to multi quote a post, might need some assistance here.]

India maybe a hypocrite, but its not like we have an angel for a neighbor. That's the point I was trying to make, now if you think Pakistan has gone down its road because of India's hypocrisy, then try this on for size.

The PA intervened in Kashmir way back in 1947, Pathans from the NWFP were happily crossing over into Kashmir. India was forced to respond, now despite the fact that it was Pakistan that created the entire mess, India was willing to resolve it.

Now you call us hypocrites for not clearing up the mess you created? or it because we stopped Pakistan from gobbling up Kashmir? If this was really about 'Kashmiri Independence' then why do you have your political parties in P.o.Kashmir? Shouldn't you be running a parallel government in P.oc.K? But no, you choose to lecture us on hypocrisy while you name Pakistani occupied Kashmir 'Azad Kashmir'

If tomorrow India becomes a member of the UNSC and vetoes the resolution will that too be acceptable to you? Lets not fool ourselves here, Pakistan wanted Kashmir, its common sense, India didn't let that happen so Pakistan launched the world's most hypocritical campaign of 'Independence'. Pakistan is not the victim and its hands are not clean, not by a long shot.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand Pakistan isn't happy with the status quo and having an enemy at the doorstep doesn't make sense for either one of us. But if we're ever going to find a way I think we should being by first have to getting off our self righteous moral high horse. Like Musharraff said, the past has been dirty, but its time to move on, so lets do exactly that.

India cannot resolve anything while Kashmiri terrorists groups are active in Pakistan. It will legitimize everything they have fought for and there is an India outside of Kashmir. Once the bombing stops, the talking starts.

{1947, 65 == 1971.

Kashmir == Bangladesh

Baluchistan == Khalistan

Kargil ? (Siachen wasn't occupied by the PA)

OH! what's this?, India is clearly less hypocritical! }

 

[Spitfighter]

Glomex,

Singh saying that he may visit Pakistan for talks (for example) and then changing his mind is entirely different from official statements, declarations and commitments.

Someone correctly pointed out that Kargil was a violation in that respect, and i agree. Its just that prior to that we had seen Siachen as a violation of the Simla agreement's commitment to peace and dialog for resolving disputes.

I think it is time that the two sides implement their declared positions - as I pointed out, Pakistan has shown tangibly that it is cooperating on reducing the insurgency in Kashmir.

It is now India's turn to show sincerity and engage in dialog on Kashmir and compromise. The status quo is not acceptable to Pakistan, a loss of all of J&K is not acceptable to India, so we have to find middle ground on some of the various suggestions offered.

Yarr ab mein 'someone' ban gaya?

Good post though, both countries have done enough, I think the time has come to sincerely sit down and find a middle ground.

 

[HAIDER]

Do the constructive dialogue/meaningful ....not like Shimla agreement or occupying Siachin, during bad weather absence of PA . All these scenario will backlash India . To control these jehadies, India need to show some pragmatic approach . Otherwise if Indian keeps on killing Muslims in Kashmir and when backlash receive from same people, then its pointless to shout and call India being victim of terrorism.
Human being is so frustrated, its taking law in his hand and beyond control of man made laws, WHEN atrocities being done in its territory. When economic hardship is already half killed and on top when armed govt men listening to people who has no interest in human freedom and pass the order to kill them daily basis. When few people serving the ego of few men sitting in New Dehli. Thats human being mentality when it comes to freedom.......if few bullets can change it, then Indian being trying for last so many years...
outcome.????....

 

[Spitfighter]

If this was about killing muslims, then your Chinese friends do the same. What now? oh but that's an internal matter right? Don't bring religion into this. Pakistan needs to stop the terrorism and then we need to work together to find a middle ground.

 

[HAIDER]

Its not the Pakistan who bring religion in this whole issue. This came along with Afghan-Soviet war decades ago.Their is middle ground...but don't know where it lies

 

[vandemataram]

Then why run into agreement? of LoC, and accepting the referendum right for kashmiries? they could let it be. Till today may be the problem would be solved automatically, one way or another. Hypocrite Indians, who just do agreement for their on good and break promises. You guyz don't give the right for the kashmiries, you shouldn't be complaining for terrorism. You yourself want to push this problem forward. Don't want to solve it.



Solve Kashmir issue, terrorism will finish automatically. your indian fellows wont be then crying for terrorism.

If that is true then why is Pakistan facing terrorism today ? Is it that you do not have control on the freedom fighters? Or you have stopped paying them coz you got no MONEY ? The rabid dog is biting the hands of the masters that once fed them ...

Keep it up ..kudos to you

 

[King Julien]

Do the constructive dialogue/meaningful ....not like Shimla agreement or occupying Siachin, during bad weather absence of PA .

dude do i need to pull out those history pages?

All these scenario will backlash India . To control these jehadies, India need to show some pragmatic approach.

no, we are just gonna kill them, and keep killing them like cockroaches... see we've been suffering from such human loss in terror strike because our politicians didn't recognize this threat..
but now they've already started to gear up.. you already see an 34% rise in defence expenditure, and that's to **** them hard...

Otherwise if Indian keeps on killing Muslims in Kashmir and when backlash receive from same people, then its pointless to shout and call India being victim of terrorism.

I've never seen a coward like you who justifies killings of innocent people, just to endorse his belief.. will you say the same if your loved one was killed in a terror attack? or maybe you tag their death as martyrdom.... by the way, If you check figures most number of muslims are killed in pakistan due to terror attack.. or to that matter even in kashmir most number of muslims get killed because of insurgency by pakistan...

Human being is so frustrated, its taking law in his hand and beyond control of man made laws, WHEN atrocities being done in its territory. When economic hardship is already half killed and on top when armed govt men listening to people who has no interest in human freedom and pass the order to kill them daily basis. When few people serving the ego of few men sitting in New Dehli. Thats human being mentality when it comes to freedom.......

oh yeah, really? what about the guy who was shot dead and separatists sponsored by GoP called an shut down? didn't you guys on this forum started calling Indian army as killer? what now? 46 days of shut down now it turns up as murder in an love triangle... do you guys take back your words?...
and you've been doing these evil killings, only for your security of your damn water?

if few bullets can change it, then Indian being trying for last so many years...
outcome.????....

outcome bole toh... 60% people voted in kashmir.. and clearly gave an mandate to pakistan about their stand...
not because of bullets, but pakistan's fake sympathy...
kashmir now clearly knows pakistan needs kashmir, and have been using kashmiris for their benefit...

about plebiscite? well people are smart enough to not join a failed state..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

about plebiscite? well people are smart enough to not join a failed state..

If so, then a plebiscite would suit India, yet we continue to see the GoI afraid of taking that road, becasue the truth is that Pakistan is neither failed nor does India have the sympathies of the Kashmiris.

Finally, I really have run out of patience for people flaming like you did.

Take a hike for a month.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If that is true then why is Pakistan facing terrorism today ? Is it that you do not have control on the freedom fighters? Or you have stopped paying them coz you got no MONEY ? The rabid dog is biting the hands of the masters that once fed them ...

Keep it up ..kudos to you

Why is Pakistan facing terrorism today? Studying the events stemming from the US invasion of Afghanistan would give you a clue ...

Anyway, back to topic please.

 

[Kasrkin]

The PA intervened in Kashmir way back in 1947, Pathans from the NWFP were happily crossing over into Kashmir. India was forced to respond, now despite the fact that it was Pakistan that created the entire mess, India was willing to resolve it

Its clear that you don’t have a very good understanding of that event sir. If anyone is responsible for the 'mess' in Kashmir then it was the Hindu Maharaja ruling there. His rule was failing, Muslim soldiers from his army were rebelling, the Muslim population was in an uproar and tribesmen from the western parts of the new Pakistan started joining in the rebellion once the Maharaja decided that India would protect his rule better. The Pakistan Army was NOT allowed to interfere at this time. It was much later, once the Indian military footprint had been established in the valley, was Jinnah able to prevail upon Gracey to send troops to Kashmir to halt the Indian advance.

India didn’t ‘clean’ anything in Kashmir. The Pakistan Army was itching to go to Srinagar and establish order, had Lord Mountbatten allowed us to do so, the situation in Kashmir would’ve been much different today. India took what it could in Kashmir and decided to keep it, in disregard to prior commitments, which was a very ‘messy’ way of solving anything. If you call this ‘solving’ ofcourse…

If this was really about 'Kashmiri Independence' then why do you have your political parties in P.o.Kashmir? Shouldn't you be running a parallel government in P.oc.K?

Someone needs to run Azad Kashmir while India refuses to give the larger Kashmir its freedom. Pakistan doesn't refer to Azad Kashmir as 'Pakistani Kashmir' for a reason. We, unlike India, don't pretend it’s ours and honor its Disputed Territory status. India on the other hand has committed itself to bilateral and illegal annexation.

If tomorrow India becomes a member of the UNSC and vetoes the resolution will that too be acceptable to you?

We will try our best not to let you achieve such a position before you address Kashmir. Not many people will be happy to let you lead the UN if you don't respect its ideals and resolutions. Pakistan has influence in the UN too, in case you forgot.

Lets not fool ourselves here, Pakistan wanted Kashmir, its common sense, India didn't let that happen so Pakistan launched the world's most hypocritical campaign of 'Independence'. Pakistan is not the victim and its hands are not clean, not by a long shot.

You tend to rant a lot, you should avoid that. Yes Pakistan wants Kashmir because Kashmiris want Pakistan, but why does India want Kashmir? So Pakistan can't have it? The history of Kashmir speaks for itself. Pakistan has still not claimed Kashmir to be its own, unlike India. You're trying to say Pakistan wants Kashmir and India doesn't?

But if we're ever going to find a way I think we should being by first have to getting off our self righteous moral high horse.

Pakistan has offered more ideas and compromises than India ever has. Pakistan's not the one riding on a 'high horse' and Pakistan's not the one with an inflexible and denial based policy on Kashmir.

India cannot resolve anything while Kashmiri terrorists groups are active in Pakistan. It will legitimize everything they have fought for and there is an India outside of Kashmir. Once the bombing stops, the talking starts.

Pakistan has made more efforts to stop the 'bombings' than India has to address Kashmir. Even when talking is done, Kashmir is always avoided and dodged on the Indian side. This is something Musharraf has attested to as well.

Kashmir == Bangladesh

E. Pakistan was not Disputed Territory. It was sovereign Pakistani territory.

Kargil ? (Siachen wasn't occupied by the PA)

Technically, Kargil wasn't occupied by the IA either when Pakistan sent its men. Siachen might not have had troops stationed there, but it was still considered Pakistani territory, Pakistan being responsible for facilitating tourist travel there. The primary reason India decided to sneak in…

 

[Machoman]

^^ That's not going to happen as Kashmir is an integral part of India

Kashmir was never part of India anyways and its not going to be ever so why bring that issue?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If tomorrow India becomes a member of the UNSC and vetoes the resolution will that too be acceptable to you?

Also, I don't think you can veto a resolution that has already been passed. You can only do so when it is being considered, AFAIK.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Finally, I really have run out of patience for people flaming like you did.

Take a hike for a month.

On second thought - taking back your ban and issuing a warning instead. Came across some of your other posts elsewhere, and they were constructive.

Please try to avoid such flames in the future.

 

[IBM]

Kashmir was never part of India anyways and its not going to be ever so why bring that issue?

For your kind information and broadcasting the state of Jammu and Kashmir is integral part of India article 300 of Indian contitution. If u don't recognize Indian constitution than its not our fault.......

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

For your kind information and broadcasting the state of Jammu and Kashmir is integral part of India article 300 of Indian contitution. If u don't recognize Indian constitution than its not our fault.......

Perhaps you should include California and Texas in your constitution as well, and then tell the US to shove off since they are then 'Indian territory' (mentioned in your constitution after all), and 'if the US does not recognize Indian constitution then that's not India's fault'.

Ajeeb logic hay yeh.