Manmohan Singh opens door to Pakistan

[Red Dwarf]

Peace? What peace? You cannot make peace with someone trying to kill you and is funding terrorists in your territory.

Yeah that the same thing we are saying for 2 decades...

 

[SMC]

Yeah that the same thing we are saying for 2 decades...

That has been discussed to death. Pakistan never funded freedom fighters outside Kashmir - a disputed territory. Same cannot be said about india. You're welcome to make any spins if you like though.

 

[Iggy]

That has been discussed to death. Pakistan never funded freedom fighters outside Kashmir - a disputed territory. Same cannot be said about india. You're welcome to make any spins if you like though.

Come on Ahsan the home grown terrorists under the name of freedom fighters was responsible for the killings of innocent civilians in Mumbai and other parts of the India ..

 

[SMC]

That was done by those groups indepedently - the Pakistani state did not fund them there. Same cannot be said about indian state.

 

[illuminatus]

It would be wise to settle disputes, but remain neutral with India. I think we should cut our diplomatic ties with India. There's frankly no benefit in having any relations with India. Pakistan's main focus should lie on expanding relations with China. No hostilities with India or any neighbour for the sake of stability in the region.

 

[Iggy]

That was done by those groups indepedently - the Pakistani state did not fund them there. Same cannot be said about indian state.

Well if you are sure about you state dont fund it then I am sure about my state didnt fund terrorism in your country..But you cant deny that your state encouraged those radical groups

 

[SMC]

Ok I can understand not believing in funding TTP - even though they are funding them - but seriously you cannot deny india funding balochistan extremists.

 

[Iggy]

Ok I can understand not believing in funding TTP - even though they are funding them - but seriously you cannot deny india funding balochistan extremists.

lolz are we going to cat fight with it??let me tell you the terrorits like Lakhvi and Hafiz Muhammad Saeed with their head quarters in Pakistan was freely roaming in your country..is that enough proof for you that your state encouraged them?care to tell any one like that from Baluchistan in my country?

 

[SMC]

The individuals you mentioned are alleged terrorists by india. The proof against them is not strong enough. The individuals that had proper proof against them had action taken against them. On the other hand, the Balochistan situation is completely different. The individuals supporting insurgents are part of indian state - unlike the individuals from Pakistan you mentioned. We do have proof of balochistan insurgent leaders meeting their RAW masters and that was most likely passed down to indian government. Now of course indian state will deny that because if they admit their own involvement in terrorism they will be in for a lot of trouble.

 

[Iggy]

The individuals you mentioned are alleged terrorists by india. The proof against them is not strong enough. The individuals that had proper proof against them had action taken against them. On the other hand, the Balochistan situation is completely different. The individuals supporting insurgents are part of indian state - unlike the individuals from Pakistan you mentioned. We do have proof of balochistan insurgent leaders meeting their RAW masters and that was most likely passed down to indian government. Now of course indian state will deny that because if they admit their own involvement in terrorism they will be in for a lot of trouble.

You can show your proofs to the public dude..then how can India deny it if its a strong proof?trust me brother its Pakistan credibility that is going to the sewage telling they have proof and not showing it ...you said in this thread one time in a discussion with me that you belive the Mumbai attacks was done by LeT..and the so called alleged people are the founders of it...so if its done by LeT then it will be with the knowledge of them for sure..Remember I am not involving ISI in it..

 

[SMC]

We have been over the public proof part. Remember US has interests in Balochistan - mainly restricting China from using Balochistan. The reason for that is US faces losing hegemony position in the world with the rise of China. China can use Balochistan to a great advantage. And yes that means US may be involved in Balochistan insurgency. So US is pressuring Pakistan to not go public with the evidence. We have insiders within ISI and army who say they frequently give proof to government about indian involvement - not just about Balochistan but also about TTP.

Also, when they say they have proof, they do show it - to the respective states which are india, US, Afghanistan, so on. And again, using credibility as a benchmark is naive because other states will only acknowledge what they want to acknowledge and won't acknowledge things that are not in their interests to acknowledge. We have been over this and I am sure you have heard about this before.

As far Hafiz Saeed goes, the allegation against him had to do with JuD and in particular that he was involved in planning of the attack (if I remember correctly). There was no proof to suggest that.

 

[idea123]

What has been pakistan gov's reply to the India's offer? I'm not expecting any positivities from them.
Back to old lines.

 

[kumar_V1.0]

Well if you are sure about you state dont fund it then I am sure about my state didnt fund terrorism in your country..But you cant deny that your state encouraged those radical groups

They say that groups in Pakistan has only interest in kashmir and thats about it.

I wonder what accounting standard they follow for accounting money raised by groups like lashkar in the streets of Pakistan. turning blind eye to something as dangerous as this is as bigger crime as directly funding acts like Mumbai.

 

[Gazzi]

We have been over the public proof part. Remember US has interests in Balochistan - mainly restricting China from using Balochistan. The reason for that is US faces losing hegemony position in the world with the rise of China. China can use Balochistan to a great advantage. And yes that means US may be involved in Balochistan insurgency. So US is pressuring Pakistan to not go public with the evidence. We have insiders within ISI and army who say they frequently give proof to government about indian involvement - not just about Balochistan but also about TTP.

Also, when they say they have proof, they do show it - to the respective states which are india, US, Afghanistan, so on. And again, using credibility as a benchmark is naive because other states will only acknowledge what they want to acknowledge and won't acknowledge things that are not in their interests to acknowledge. We have been over this and I am sure you have heard about this before.

As far Hafiz Saeed goes, the allegation against him had to do with JuD and in particular that he was involved in planning of the attack (if I remember correctly). There was no proof to suggest that.

Ahsan, and that is the way countries have behaved in the past, confronting one another with evidence behind closed doors so the matter can be discussed diplomatically whereby you relay your needs, concerns and expectations. Not like India, to hold a trial in the media thinking that if you say it a thousand times it will become the truth.

Proof is what matters, unless that can be shown with authenticity then the matter can move forward.

I think we are all witnesses to the LIVE Indian media shots during 26/11 attacks, where Indian Police Officers were handing each other bags containing exhibits and walking away. No notes, or signing over of exhibits, nothing. There was no continuity and securing of such exhibits which in any court of Law would be thrown out as not being authentic and open to contamination. Hence, the Pakistani courts have not paid much weight to Indian demands when it comes to Hafi Saeed as his lawyers have successfully argued the points bit by bit. If that was in a court in the UK it wouldn't make it past the first hurdle. The case would have been dismissed on numerous technicalities alone.

As for the talks with India, I say, too little too late.

This is window dressing and nothing more on behalf of the Indians. Pakistan should have its own Lobby and think tanks and ponder on the best route to take., hook or crook, just like their counterparts.

 

[SMC]

Exactly. Very rarely do you see proof being shown to public and if it happens it's when 'everyone' accepts who is responsible (even if it may be conspiracy, such as 9/11)