Mamata suggests Dhaka to forget Teesta water

[Mage]

From source to mouth, the Teesta is approximately 414 kilometres, of which 150-odd are in Sikkim, 123 in West Bengal, and the remaining 140 or so, in Bangladesh.

I don't know how you got that 65 percent figure. This is a classic case of propaganda. I now know how India is being defamed through lies. India is bargaining for 55 percent only.



Fair enough. But it has got nothing to do with UNSC. China has several times the problem with its neighbors. Doesn't affect anything for them.



Don't all lovers support each other?!



And this is the crux of the matter. Today port, tomorrow Gwadar Part II, day after that Naval Base. If you feel free to do as you please being a sovereign nation, so does India. If you cannot accommodate such a simple request, neither should India. Rules of reciprocity.



International relations are a give and take. Take water and give security in return. China is India's trade and business partner as well. Nothing wrong in doing trade and business with them. But defence deals and strategic assets like port development are another issue. China has several territorial disputes with India and in case of a conflict it matters greatly whether or not they have a military presence in BD.

If good relations with China are worth a thousand Teesta then why do BD members insist that Indo-BD relations are hostage to the water issue? If it is such a minor issue then is it worth spoiling relations with your immediate neighbor? At least be consistent.



Do you have territorial disputes with Israel and US? And is RSS any of BD's concern? You equate these issues with Indo-China potential for military conflict? Do you have comprehension issues or sanity issues?



Best of luck with that approach. Decades later, when BD is being Balkanized and is a proxy playground for Indo-China conflict, you will realize. India and China will never fight a war directly again. However, anyone who gets involved will beat the consequences. More terror attacks, less breathing space for secularists, and eventually Talibanization of BD.

What inconsistency you find in my post?

I value good relation with China, which has nothing to do with Teesta. I also value good relation with India which has something to do with Teesta. Despite no Teesta agreement Indo-BD relation is still good. And BD won't allow foreign military bases in its land be it China, India or USA.

Territorial dispute between India and China means nothing to BD. Never heard any Bangladeshi politician saying anything regarding this.

The main point is Teesta deal or no Teesta deal we will keep good relation with China....and if we feel defence cooperation is necessary between us and China agrees with it as well then we will cooperate in military areas as well. We already buy a lot of weapons from China. India does not like that. But can't do anything either. You can see India still consider us as a friend despite we buying toys from China.


I'll ask this much. Accept that BD is an independent country. We will cooperate with any country we feel necessary. India or anyone else has/should have no say in it.

 

[Jacob Martin]

According to your calculation ganga ends in india as it enters bd through padma channel

This is not my calculation. There is a draft agreement that has been discussed many times and is almost ready for signing. Also as per initial ad hoc agreement between the countries.

What inconsistency you find in my post?

I value good relation with China, which has nothing to do with Teesta. I also value good relation with India which has something to do with Teesta. Despite no Teesta agreement Indo-BD relation is still good. And BD won't allow foreign military bases in its land be it China, India or USA.

Territorial dispute between India and China means nothing to BD. Never heard any Bangladeshi politician saying anything regarding this.

The main point is Teesta deal or no Teesta deal we will keep good relation with China....and if we feel defence cooperation is necessary between us and China agrees with it as well then we will cooperate in military areas as well. We already buy a lot of weapons from China. India does not like that. But can't do anything either. You can see India still consider us as a friend despite we buying toys from China.


I'll ask this much. Accept that BD is an independent country. We will cooperate with any country we feel necessary. India or anyone else has/should have no say in it.

Look, you answered the question in your post. Even without a deal on Teesta, Indo-BD relations are fine. They would be better with the deal. But regardless of what is better for you guys, what would be better for us would be no Chinese military presence in BD. Trade and economic cooperation all you want, but military presence is a no-no.

Even if BD goes ahead with such contact with China, it is not going to spoil our relationship immediately, but obviously over the years just as you feel let down over Teesta, we will feel let down over the fact that China has military presence in our backyard.

So for you to get what you want, it is only fair that we get what we want. Otherwise we can have the current situation continue.

 

[Kandari-Hushiyaar]

No way becuase of India.
China is needed to supply BD its much needed cheap quality products which India cant.
BD also has potential to increase export to China than India, also China may relocate its sunset industries to BD which is not possible in case of India.
China will invest hefty amount in BD's economy and infrastructures, India is no where close to that.



On the contrary what message is India sending to BD by diverting its waters during needed time and flooding BD, when it doesnt need any water? After 10-20 years causing massive damage to life and property not even making proper a deal, where it should compensate BD for time being.
You know, BD is a highly ambitious country. You cant just judge it by its sheer geographical size. While all its ambitions are slowed down by a massive stone age country from all sides.

Welcome Sultan Jalaluddin Muhammad Shah, Amir of Bengal . Did you know Sultan JMS was a hindu Bengali muslim convert and the only Bengali to claim the Caliphate, sovereign over all the muslims of the world?? His allies were the Ming China and Egyptian Mamlukes, He should be considered the first founding father of Bengali nation. As he championed the Muslim cause but also accommodated Hindus in powerful positions of the court.

 

[Mage]

This is not my calculation. There is a draft agreement that has been discussed many times and is almost ready for signing. Also as per initial ad hoc agreement between the countries.



Look, you answered the question in your post. Even without a deal on Teesta, Indo-BD relations are fine. They would be better with the deal. But regardless of what is better for you guys, what would be better for us would be no Chinese military presence in BD. Trade and economic cooperation all you want, but military presence is a no-no.

Even if BD goes ahead with such contact with China, it is not going to spoil our relationship immediately, but obviously over the years just as you feel let down over Teesta, we will feel let down over the fact that China has military presence in our backyard.

So for you to get what you want, it is only fair that we get what we want. Otherwise we can have the current situation continue.

Now inconsistency in your post.

There is no Chinese military presence in BD. What is stopping you from signing Teesta treaty?

The thing is simple. Modi govt is willing to sign the deal but Mamata is not. That's there in it. No Chinese involvement there.
Once WB people gets rid of Mamata Teesta dea will be signed.

 

[Kandari-Hushiyaar]

Now inconsistency in your post.

There is no Chinese military presence in BD. What is stopping you from signing Teesta treaty?

The thing is simple. Modi govt is willing to sign the deal but Mamata is not. That's there in it. No Chinese involvement there.
Once WB people gets rid of Mamata Teesta dea will be signed.

Leave it right there. Sheikh Hasina has done enough. Secured India's eastern part from terrorists and separatists like Ulfa and stood by the side of India When Modi tried to corner Pakistan after Uri attack. India has done nothing in comparison. Few billion loans Bangladesh can get from any developed country as it is the hotbed of Economic growth. Land and sea treaties are supposed to benefit the both.

Sheikh Hasina could force Modi to sign Teesta treaty without Mamata. And I honestly believe she didnt because Mamata is a fellow Bengali and She wanted to solve it cordially with Mamata. I am sure after the next election she will deliver an ultimatum to India if she regains power. Right Now she is bit vulnerable.

And If BNP comes to power, Say Bye Bye to Teesta water , welcome chinese Umbrella treaties of Military alliance.

 

[Banglar Bir]

Teesta has one-sixteenth of water needed.

Amid all the talk of failure of the Teesta water sharing agreement between Bangladesh and India last weekend, few mentioned that the river has hardly any water now

Drying Teesta in northern West Bengal , India (Image by Jayanta Basu)

Jayanta Basu, April 14, 2017
The big disappointment during Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina’s visit to India last weekend was the failure to finalise the Teesta water sharing agreement between the two countries. Data available with thethirdpole.net shows this was because the river now has only one-sixteenth of the water needed for agriculture by the two countries during the dry season, from February to May. Little wonder that West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee opposed the agreement tooth and nail.

There is no water
In a recently prepared internal report on the Teesta, seen by thethirdpole.net, the West Bengal government states, “Two barrages on Teesta, at about 100 km from each other, in India and Bangladesh were planned to cater [to] irrigation in more than 16 lakh [1.6 million] hectares of land together; around 9.2 lakh [920,000] hectares in [the] state of West Bengal in India and 7.5 lakh [750,000] hectares in Bangladesh. According to a rough calculation, such a scale of irrigation for boro crop (dry season paddy) will require around 1600 cumec (cubic metre per second) of water; while through much of the dry period the river hardly has 100 cumec of water, i.e. one sixteenth of total water requirement in [the] two countries.”

India has a barrage on the Teesta at Gojoldoba at Jalpaiguri district of West Bengal, a little upstream of the point where the river enters Bangladesh. The Bangladesh government has a barrage at Doani in Lalmonirhat district, before the Teesta joins the Brahmaputra.
In recent years, water volume in the Teesta has gone below the 100 cumec level in peak summer, April and May.
Recognising the lack of adequate water in the Teesta, a committee of the West Bengal government under Indevar Pandey, principal secretary of the public works department, has recently decided that the state will irrigate only 52,000 hectares with the river’s water, a reduction over 90% from the original plan.
The data explains Banerjee’s reluctance to part with any water from the Teesta despite pressure from prime ministers of both India and Bangladesh. “Where is the water in the Teesta?” asked the chief minister whenever faced with Bangladesh’s claim for an equitable share of Teesta water.

Key reason – planning failure
Barrages are built to hold back water for the dry season. The West Bengal government report says there is no water in them now, because the water has been released at the wrong time by authorities in both India and Bangladesh.
“While the barrages were planned primarily to provide supplementary irrigation support to aman paddy cultivation during monsoon, subsequently both barrages were used to support boro cultivation during dry season, when there is minimum water in [the] river,” says the report.
The fact that the barrages do not have any water reservoir facility, also compels authorities to release most of the monsoon water rather than keep it back for dry seasons.
All this makes a water sharing treaty even more difficult, though Bangladesh has agreed to a 50:50 split instead of seeking a guaranteed volume of water.
In Bangladesh, a recent study conducted by the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI) and the Centre for Agri-research and Sustainable Environment & Entrepreneurship Development (CASEED) also talked about the shift from monsoon to dry paddy cultivation in the region watered by the Teesta. “A few years ago, the aman rice crop used to be cultivated on 80% of the land but the trend has changed now,” said an expert involved in the project.

The Sikkim effect
Noted river expert Kalyan Rudra pointed out another big problem – the large number of hydroelectric projects already commissioned or under construction in Sikkim state along the Teesta, upstream of West Bengal. These are run-of-the-river projects, so they are not supposed to hold back water. But, Rudra said, “Though these hydropower units release the water, but the timing is not coordinated with the peak time need of farmers.” Large stretches of the river are being cut off due to this poor management, he added.

Still, Bangladesh needs water
Experts in Bangladesh are aware of these problems. Still, they feel, India should release some water from the Teesta during the dry season. “Every country downstream has the right over water as well and despite reduced water volume in summer West Bengal should not oppose release of some water to Bangladesh,” Ainun Nishat, noted river expert and with BRAC University in Bangladesh, told thethirdpole.net.
Nishat pointed out that till 2011, when Mamata Banerjee came to power in West Bengal, Bangladesh used to receive some water from the Teesta all through the year. Now it reportedly receives only about 20 cumec of water in peak dry season, mainly through a tributary called Dhorla, which joins the Teesta downstream of the Gojoldoba barrage.

Need for cooperation
While the West Bengal government report has enabled Banerjee to stymie the India Bangladesh pact for now, even officials of the West Bengal government are not happy with the current state of affairs.
They point out that drying up of a transboundary river just upstream of an international border is contrary to global norms. “What will happen if tomorrow Bhutan or Nepal refuses to part with upstream water?” asked a senior official in the state government.

History of agreement
In July 1983, there was a temporary agreement between India and Bangladesh on the Teesta. It gave 39% of the water to India and 36% to Bangladesh, while the rest was to flow free. The trouble was that this was only a two-year agreement. After that, gradual decline in water flow, particularly in summer, has complicated the situation. Subsequent agreement drafts have suggested similar shares, but they remain drafts.

Teesta the bargaining tool
Of course, the political tussle between India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee’s Trinamool Congress complicates matters. “I cannot say anything as the chief minister is looking into the issue herself,” said Rajib Banerjee, irrigation minister of West Bengal, when asked about the situation.
This tussle predates Modi’s appointment as Prime Minister. It started in 2011 when then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had almost finalised a Teesta water sharing agreement on the eve of a visit to Dhaka, and wanted to take Banerjee along. The Chief Minister pulled out of the trip at the last moment and stymied the pact.
In 2015, Banerjee did go to Dhaka along with Modi, and indicated that progress had been made on the Teesta agreement. But now, the BJP-Trinamool relationship is at a low, and the effect was apparent during Sheikh Hasina’s trip.

Water from other rivers?
However, Banerjee knows she cannot keep denying water to Bangladesh, a country that shares 57 rivers with India. “I am all for giving water to Bangladesh but not from the Teesta, as it is the lifeline of north Bengal and does not have enough water to be shared with Bangladesh. Instead I proposed to both Prime Ministers to undertake a study whether water can be given to Bangladesh from other rivers from the region like Torsa, Jaldhaka or Raidak,” she said last weekend.
But neither Dhaka nor New Delhi seems to have taken this idea seriously. River experts also wonder how this is supposed to work. “These rivers are tributaries of the Brahmaputra. Rerouting their water to the Teesta command area in Bangladesh’s will be a herculean task, if not an impossible one,” said a senior official in the West Bengal government.
Despite last weekend’s setback, Hasina and Modi expressed confidence that a Teesta deal will be reached soon. Experts say they may be basin their confidence on a part of India’s river interlinking scheme, under which water from the Manas river (a tributary of the Brahmaputra in Assam) is planned to be transferred to the Ganga via the Sankosh and Teesta rivers. “There is already a proposal of Manas–Sankosh–Teesta interlinking under the national water transfer project and necessary quantity of water may be given to Bangladesh by diverting water from Manas and Sankosh through link canal to Teesta; which will solve the problem of providing adequate water to Bangladesh during dry months,” said Nilanjan Ghosh, an ecological economist and a river analyst associated with the Observer Research Foundation.
Ghosh however added that execution of such a plan would be ecologically disastrous, unsustainable for river health and detrimental to ecosystem services and livelihoods in the long run. “Execution of such a plan will require cutting canals through forest areas which may be extremely damaging,” Rudra pointed out.

https://www.thethirdpole.net/2017/04/14/teesta-has-one-sixteenth-of-water-needed/

 

[SajjLad]

Welcome Sultan Jalaluddin Muhammad Shah, Amir of Bengal . Did you know Sultan JMS was a hindu Bengali muslim convert and the only Bengali to claim the Caliphate, sovereign over all the muslims of the world?? His allies were the Ming China and Egyptian Mamlukes, He should be considered the first founding father of Bengali nation. As he championed the Muslim cause but also accommodated Hindus in powerful positions of the court.

Underrated hero of ours, definitely. His dynasty in general is quite interesting, as I think they are pretty much the only Indo-Islamic sultans of confirmed paternal native ancestry (as far as I know, definitely the only example in Bengal). Unfortunately there's not a great deal of information about that time period.

 

[Mage]

Leave it right there. Sheikh Hasina has done enough. Secured India's eastern part from terrorists and separatists like Ulfa and stood by the side of India When Modi tried to corner Pakistan after Uri attack. India has done nothing in comparison. Few billion loans Bangladesh can get from any developed country as it is the hotbed of Economic growth. Land and sea treaties are supposed to benefit the both.

Sheikh Hasina could force Modi to sign Teesta treaty without Mamata. And I honestly believe she didnt because Mamata is a fellow Bengali and She wanted to solve it cordially with Mamata. I am sure after the next election she will deliver an ultimatum to India if she regains power. Right Now she is bit vulnerable.

And If BNP comes to power, Say Bye Bye to Teesta water , welcome chinese Umbrella treaties of Military alliance.

It's funny to see Indians think they have some Kind of right by birth to control Bangladesh. They see only they are helping Bangladesh but can't see what Bangladesh does for them. And gets angry when they see BD in good terms with China. Lot of insecurities for an emerging supa pawa.

If no Teesta deal in foreseeable future then eventually the good relation will be stained. Modi at least understands this much. He even assured Hasina that the treaty will be signed soon. Lets see what India prefers. A friendly BD or an unfriendly BD.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Okay let us assume for a minute that the Teesta issue is settled to the satisfaction of Bangladesh. What happens then? Will BD stop flirting with China?

I ask this because I genuinely do not understand whether Bangladesh is taking care of its interests through increasing ties with China or just sending a message?

As per international law,receiving water from trans boundary rivers are our legal rights.It is not like India will give it as a gift for acting loyal.Our relation with China will remain strong and we will get water as per international law.India have no rights to block water and no one will blame Bangladesh if we do not follow Indian dictat on foreign policy.It is time to stop India acting as a regional bully and stop indian water terrorism.

 

[idune]

Still awami indian dalals signed pact to fatten indian pocket in the name of "credit". Instead if land ports are closed and import from india diverted to different countries, Mamata and west bengal economy will face setback they dont fathom. But offcourse, awami league is desperate to serve india and Hasian her kaka babu.

 

[Jacob Martin]

Now inconsistency in your post.

There is no Chinese military presence in BD. What is stopping you from signing Teesta treaty?

The thing is simple. Modi govt is willing to sign the deal but Mamata is not. That's there in it. No Chinese involvement there.
Once WB people gets rid of Mamata Teesta dea will be signed.

China and Bangladesh have a defence cooperation agreement. China supplies weapons to BD military. China is funding the Sonadia deep sea port. These are not welcome moves.

As for Mamata, unfortunately she is not going anywhere in a hurry. If you understand politics of West Bengal you will know that she will be in power for a while. And the way things are going, if Chinese involvement increases even more then Indian government itself will back out of the deal. After all it is leverage.

As per international law,receiving water from trans boundary rivers are our legal rights.It is not like India will give it as a gift for acting loyal.Our relation with China will remain strong and we will get water as per international law.India have no rights to block water and no one will blame Bangladesh if we do not follow Indian dictat on foreign policy.It is time to stop India acting as a regional bully and stop indian water terrorism.

Look, you have to understand our concerns. No one has a problem with China's economic engagement with BD. That is of course not only your right but also desirable for everyone concerned.

But do not confuse that with military ties. That is an entirely different matter. You are a smart person. I cannot believe that you fail to see as to why India has a problem with China making defence deals in its backyard. It is not about influence. If it was US/Japan/Russia/EU or anyone else it would be different. We have no potential conflict with them. Our north east is a very vulnerable area and BD provides us with a strategic buffer/depth. Now if China has military both to the north and south, it just doesn't work for us.

Instead of seeing it as a matter of bullying, try to see things from our position.

 

[Species]

China and Bangladesh have a defence cooperation agreement. China supplies weapons to BD military. China is funding the Sonadia deep sea port. These are not welcome moves.

As for Mamata, unfortunately she is not going anywhere in a hurry. If you understand politics of West Bengal you will know that she will be in power for a while. And the way things are going, if Chinese involvement increases even more then Indian government itself will back out of the deal. After all it is leverage.



Look, you have to understand our concerns. No one has a problem with China's economic engagement with BD. That is of course not only your right but also desirable for everyone concerned.

But do not confuse that with military ties. That is an entirely different matter. You are a smart person. I cannot believe that you fail to see as to why India has a problem with China making defence deals in its backyard. It is not about influence. If it was US/Japan/Russia/EU or anyone else it would be different. We have no potential conflict with them. Our north east is a very vulnerable area and BD provides us with a strategic buffer/depth. Now if China has military both to the north and south, it just doesn't work for us.

Instead of seeing it as a matter of bullying, try to see things from our position.

You are only talking from the Indian point of view. Bangladesh has solved your Northeast insurgency to a great extent, we have provided you transit for smooth connectivity between your mainland and northeast. But otoh India has never reciprocated, you have blocked the rivers, you have imposed tariff and non-tariff barriers on our products. This is why everybody here consider India a threat.

 

[Śakra]

who cares what bangledesh wants? We are in the position of power and we will not sign any deal that limits our water allocation. If you're thirsty, ask your government to build a dam.

 

[WhyCry]

You are only talking from the Indian point of view. Bangladesh has solved your Northeast insurgency to a great extent, we have provided you transit for smooth connectivity between your mainland and northeast. But otoh India has never reciprocated, you have blocked the rivers, you have imposed tariff and non-tariff barriers on our products. This is why everybody here consider India a threat.

The switch of land that has happened has resulted in greater territory for BD. We didn't reciprocated?? We don't owe you ANYTHING.

India is going to be a protected economy no two ways about it. It is because of the growing market and the population.

@Rain Man said this:

At least in this issue Mamata is right, ties with a foreign country at the cost of our own people is a foolish idea. Teesta river runs most of its course through India and enters Bangladesh at the end of its course to merge in the 2nd largest river in terms of water discharge in the world, Brahmaputra. 83% of its catchment area is in India and only 17% is in Bangladesh, yet, India gets 39% of its share and Bangladesh gets 36%+25%=61% of its share of the water. That 25% is for the river to run its course, but Bangladesh can and they do withdraw that water too as the river doesn't go all the way to Bay of Bengal and merge with Brahmaputra well within Bangladesh. Now Bangladesh wants 50%+25%=75% share of the water, leaving only 25% share to India for its 83% catchment area. Under what logic on earth should we accept such a proposal? Just because Bangladesh is demanding it? Or the lives and livelihood of the Indians of North Bengal worth any less than our so called 'friendship' with Bangladesh? And that friendship too is fragile and will evaporate the moment Sheikh Hasina is out of power, and she won't rule forever...It's more like friendship with Sheikh Hasina and Awami League, not with Bangladesh...And that proposed treaty, if allowed to go through, will haunt us long after Sheikh Hasina is gone! Bangladesh is smart enough to care for only its interest and pitching China against India, but why should we dance to their tunes?

<a href="http://indiandefence.com/threads/ma...-over-teesta-water-sharing.59903/#post-550931">Mamata Impeding Better Indo-Bangla Ties With Her Intransigence Over Teesta Water-Sharing</a>

 

[Jacob Martin]

You are only talking from the Indian point of view. Bangladesh has solved your Northeast insurgency to a great extent, we have provided you transit for smooth connectivity between your mainland and northeast. But otoh India has never reciprocated, you have blocked the rivers, you have imposed tariff and non-tariff barriers on our products. This is why everybody here consider India a threat.

Firstly, I never said that Bangladesh is a threat to us. Secondly, the issue you mentioned about North East insurgency is correct. But look at the context, things changed only when your government changed. Under Khaleda Zia those same groups found shelter in Bangladesh.

About tariff barriers, yes, Indian government could concede that to BD. But again, what do we get in return? Because BD will be the net beneficiary of removing tariffs. While that is not a problem, but surely, you do realize that asking that our next door neighbor does not have defence deals with a country that is a threat to us is not expecting too much?

I don't think anyone should have a problem conceding these things to BD, international relations are about give-and-take. But what will you give in return, if you cannot give the only thing that works for India?

And that friendship too is fragile and will evaporate the moment Sheikh Hasina is out of power, and she won't rule forever...

IMO, this is the operative part. Sheikh Hasina is probably the best friend India has had as far as a foreign head of state is concerned. But Bangladeshi goodwill should not be contingent on her. The BD-China defence agreement was signed when Khaleda Zia was PM. She is no friend to India. What is the point of making concessions if there is no guarantee of consistency in relations?