Majority of Pakistanis for 'Islamisation' of society: Poll

[Abu Basit]

So when in the Koran it says that you need to give hundred lashes to a particular kind of sexual offender (for example in verse 24:2 here), you are obliged to follow that? Is that what happens in Pakistan and if not then are the Pakistanis or any other Muslim society not guilty of going against the tenets of Islam?

Yes we are obliged to follow and yes Pakistanis are guilty of it.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

First of all, Its Qur'an not Koran

Quran/Qur'an gives spelling error. Koran is the word in English language.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Muslim is someone who follows Islam..

Islam is a "way of life" for which rules are described in the Holly Qur'an and practically shown by Sunnah (practical implementation by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H)

Qur'an is composed of two types of Ayah (verses) Wazeh (clear and concise like don't eat pork, don't lie, etc.) and Mutashabihaat (clear with broader meanings like 'pray' where order is there but how to do is not there), Mutashabihaat are then clarified by Ahadees (sayings) of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H and he showed them by practically doing them hence Sunnah (what and how he did it)..

Hope i cleared it for you..

There are a lot of things which (obviously) i cannot make u understand due to the reason that you'll have to be taught all the reasons behind them..

No I asked a specific question with respect to an example. Please care to explain that?

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Yes we are obliged to follow and yes Pakistanis are guilty of it.

Right. So now when it becomes apparent that there is no consensus on what constitutes Islam or who is a true follower and who is not, then how come people are talking about Islamization of Pakistan? Isn't it obvious that Muslims first need to have clarity on what constitutes true Islam, in words and in action?

 

[AAtish]

Quran/Qur'an gives spelling error. Koran is the word in English language.

If i say Endia instead of India because it gives the same sound will that do for you?

Please refrain from referring it as Koran, that is a word used by Islamophobic people who do not have any desire to understand the religion and are just trying to malign it.. If you really want to know what Islam is in reality, please bear some respect to it and i'll try MY best to let you know as much as i know..

Thanks..

 

[AAtish]

No I asked a specific question with respect to an example. Please care to explain that?

Please see the post again.. i have edited it already.. sorry, i missed your point first time when i typed it..

 

[Abu Basit]

Right. So now when it becomes apparent that there is no consensus on what constitutes Islam or who is a true follower and who is not, then how come people are talking about Islamization of Pakistan? Isn't it obvious that Muslims first need to have clarity on what constitutes true Islam, in words and in action?

What constitues Islam or who's a true follower is very clear- a tiny minority backed by devils (western countires) are the only hurdle and trust me- this hurdle will be removed.

 

[AAtish]

Right. So now when it becomes apparent that there is no consensus on what constitutes Islam or who is a true follower and who is not, then how come people are talking about Islamization of Pakistan? Isn't it obvious that Muslims first need to have clarity on what constitutes true Islam, in words and in action?

Problem in Islam started where people started to mis-interpret and mis-represent Islamic verses 'out of context', further problems arose when the explanations were done by the four imams, they tried to interpret things upon their understandings, and that escalated so much that we came to today's scenario..

If you try to understand the differences or reason of conflicts between different sects, it becomes painfully obvious that those are minor things, things like where to hold your hands during qayam of salah, or rafa yadain should be done or not etc. The basics in ALL sects (excluding a 'small portion' of shia sec which has a different shadah and whole of Qadyani sect who do not believe Mohammad P.B.U.H to be last messenger) is same..

The problem is not whether people want Islam or not.. the problem is being escalated by 'Mullahs' (general term: incompetent, self-proclaimed scholars) to gain control over religion.. The sooner we take their roots out the better, and believe me, if real Islam is implemented in Pakistan, You Indians will love it as it will be responsible for peace of all the neighbours also..

 

[Valiant_Soul]

If i say Endia instead of India because it gives the same sound will that do for you?

Please refrain from referring it as Koran, that is a word used by Islamophobic people who do not have any desire to understand the religion and are just trying to malign it.. If you really want to know what Islam is in reality, please bear some respect to it and i'll try MY best to let you know as much as i know..

Thanks..

I never talked about sounding of the words, I said that this is how it is spelled in English language, that is the word in the English vocabulary used by everyone. And by that there is no intention to disrespect anything or anyone.

P.S. Thanks for editing your post with such precise details.

 

[Abu Basit]

If you try to understand the differences or reason of conflicts between different sects, it becomes painfully obvious that those are minor things, things like where to hold your hands during qayam of salah, or rafa yadain should be done or not etc. The basics in ALL sects (excluding a 'small portion' of shia sec which has a different shadah and whole of Qadyani sect who do not believe Mohammad P.B.U.H to be last messenger) is same..

there is almost 70-75% consensus on different issues amongst different school of thoughts. The difference of 25-30% will not get solved as these difference are coming for centuries.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Problem in Islam started where people started to mis-interpret and mis-represent Islamic verses 'out of context', further problems arose when the explanations were done by the four imams, they tried to interpret things upon their understandings, and that escalated so much that we came to today's scenario..

If you try to understand the differences or reason of conflicts between different sects, it becomes painfully obvious that those are minor things, things like where to hold your hands during qayam of salah, or rafa yadain should be done or not etc. The basics in ALL sects (excluding a 'small portion' of shia sec which has a different shadah and whole of Qadyani sect who do not believe Mohammad P.B.U.H to be last messenger) is same..

The problem is not whether people want Islam or not.. the problem is being escalated by 'Mullahs' (general term: incompetent, self-proclaimed scholars) to gain control over religion.. The sooner we take their roots out the better, and believe me, if real Islam is implemented in Pakistan, You Indians will love it as it will be responsible for peace of all the neighbours also..

Right. And that is what am trying to point to, that for whatever reasons, the people of Pakistan do not have a consensus on what constitutes Islam and how they become true followers of Islam. And when there is no such consensus how can they talk about Islamization of Pakistan, without first bringing in this consensus.

 

[T-Faz]

i can't really help if you can't understand the difference between theory & practice-

obviously she will be an unkown author for seculars as she exposed a hoax created by a secular Justice Munir.

So once again you are not answering my question and are diverting away with a line or two.

I understand, its difficult to answer a question you do not have an answer to.

Well, good luck with your Islamic 'Socio-Politico-Economic' system and God speed.

 

[Abu Basit]

So once again you are not answering my question and are diverting away with a line or two.

I understand, its difficult to answer a question you do not have an answer to.

Well, good luck with your Islamic 'Socio-Politico-Economic' system and God speed.

When someone comes with childish argument , there's no point in responding them- Grow up a liitle bit with your arguments and you will get all the answers with references ...

btw- Why you didn't quote that portion of Jinnah's speech which has the word 'Shariat'?

 

[S.M.R]

Right. And that is what am trying to point to, that for whatever reasons, the people of Pakistan do not have a consensus on what constitutes Islam and how they become true followers of Islam. And when there is no such consensus how can they talk about Islamization of Pakistan, without first bringing in this consensus.

No, it is not like that. Well first of all you have understand there are two type of concepts in Islam. One is Wajibaat, and second one is Mustahebaat. First one means You are bound to follow, second one there is no binding, but if followed will be an additional benefit.

Now the problem arises 'how to follow wajibaat', there you will find many school of thoughts, one says that it should be done in that way, while other describes it in other way.

lemme give you an example, like we offer prayers, there is NO one in Muslim who will deny offering prayers, 5 times a day and facing towards Makkah.

Here you will find consensus, difference will be there in minor things, like how to offer prayers, i mean method may be different, but yet in minor things. Like no disputes in sequence of steps.

What you are referring to is the minor things being the major differences among muslims. All muslims have consensus on One-ness of Allah, Number of Prophets, Muhammed to be the Last Prophet, Prayers, fasting, hajj, Islamic Tax system (Zakaat) etc.

So the poll results reflect the Islamisation in that sense, not on those differences which exist among Muslims on minor issues.

 

[AAtish]

Right. And that is what am trying to point to, that for whatever reasons, the people of Pakistan do not have a consensus on what constitutes Islam and how they become true followers of Islam. And when there is no such consensus how can they talk about Islamization of Pakistan, without first bringing in this consensus.

As 'Abu Basit' has stated above, there are very minor differences among these sects and they are there for centuries, all we have to do is ignore those differences and come together on 75% of common grounds, the rest will be taken care of itself once everyone starts practicing the 75% (beauty of Islam).. As i have stated above, all we need is to have more dialog between representatives of different sects.. and TBH they are being forced to do so by people now.. cuz people are getting fed up fighting and losing lives.. This should all be cleared through mutual discussion..

If you haven't noticed, now the sectarian violence has moved from 'riots' to 'bomb blasts' cuz people do NOT want to involve themselves in it anymore.. they will NOT come on the roads for things which scholars should discuss and resolve..