Major proportion of Arjun tanks in service not operational

[uparyupari]

And how would corps of Electrical and Mechanical Engineer do there job on time, if the spare part (or any sub component of the sensors) has to be shipped abroad every time to there OEM for reparation works.....

BTW, how are those parts are shipped to there manufacturers:

• Using AIR SHIPMENT. If the airway shipping mode is used to ship the parcel, do you know how expensive it is ??. All the charges related to this EXPORT CONSIGNMENT have to be borne by the army and thus increasing the costs of operation of the tanks by many folds. But lets discard the cost issue at the moment and instead focus on time issue. Even to export small mundane things, several types of declarations, undertakings etc etc are needed to be signed and require approvals from the relevant authorities. Though, I have no idea as to what is the exact procedure of sending the consignments related to arms and ammunition, the way things operate in real world in other sectors, it could easily be assumed it would take anywhere between app. 4 to 7 days for the consignment to reach its destination, add another 5 days for repairing work and than again shipping the parcel back to India. Total no of days could be easily anywhere inbetween 2 to 4 weeks.
• Using SEA SHIPMENT. It could mean any thing between app. one to two months. It would take more time, but the shipping bills would be far more palpable to the army.

So what does this mean on the ground??

Army would have to wait for there tanks to return from the workshops for far more time and hence compromising there preparedness, while increasing the operational costs of the tanks and it isn't the fault of the workshop guys..........

So, whom to blame..????

Who to blame ? The corps of Electrical and Mechanical Engineer for not maintaining SPARES. When you go to a medical shop do you wait for the medicine to arrive from the factory ?

 

[Spy Master]

NEW DELHI: The Army is facing major technical issues with its 'indigenous' Arjun tanks, as a significant proportion of its fleet has become inoperable in recent months and are non-serviceable due to continued maintenance problems.

The Army, which reluctantly inducted 124 tanks from 2009, after the UPA government insisted that a token number have to be ordered to keep the tank development programme viable, has of late been having quality problems with the fleet.

The defence minister has been apprised of the issue. Sources said that the Army's opinion is that while a large number of tanks are not operational due to technical defects, the fleet as such is not combat worthy due to reliability issues. "A number of tanks are not operational currently as transfer of technology (ToT) of several imported systems fitted onboard has not been done," an Army official said.

The Army is surprised that quality issues have started arising even though the entire fleet came into service as recently as 2013 when deliveries ended. Given that the tanks are highly dependent on foreign equipment — 60% of the tank is imported — the failure to get maintenance technology means that the systems have to be sent abroad for even minor repairs.

It is believed that a meeting on the low serviceability rate of the Arjun fleet was conducted at South Block recently and Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is aware of the problems. The Army has identified 96 problems, including 18 major ones. The minister has been keen to increase the efficiency of existing platforms available with the military given that there is a paucity of funds to procure new systems.

In IAF, he has personally intervened to ensure that the availability rate of the Su 30 fleet improves by at least 10%. A similar approach is being taken for the Army too. DRDO is, meanwhile, working on the development of a successor in the form of the Arjun Mk II.



Army's fleet of Arjun tanks face technical issues; major proportion of 124 tanks in service not operational - The Economic Times

@gslv mk3 see,what i told you? India's Products= 'indigenous'....Pak Products=Not sure..may be Chinese..
You have been whining about Pak's JF-17 etc in almost every thread..that's the answer...! No wonder,same goes for LCA...!

 

[Faiez]

It reminds me of Steve Martin movie Major Bilko. But on a serious note I agree with the development as a necessity but one should also take into consideration the concerns of endusers in this case armoured divisions when something will directly affect their capability.

sergeant bilko you stupid !

 

[Dazzler]

When T 34 was introdued it had many flaws but Soviets still inducted it, worked on its flaws and then came T 34/ 85, the tank which evetuallly became work horse of Soviet Tank Armies and played crucial role in battle of Kursk.

Your beloved F 16 too had many issues, but that did not stop USAF from inducting it.

Gradually Designers ironed out its issues and it became success.

India's SLV 3 too had problems. In 1960s India used to launch 10 KG Rockets.

Today Our GSLV MK II can place paylod of 2500 KG in GTO.

Now had Soviets, US give up on T 34, F 16, would they have become a legendary platforms?

If a platform is not upto Mark, induct it and iron out its flaws.

This is what developers around the world do.

Flawed argument, neither India is Russia not that US. Stop living in dream world man see the reality where your beloved MBT is wrapped with issues. Intact, with 70℅ imported tech, you shouldn't even call it indigenous.

 

[IND151]

Flawed argument, neither India is Russia not that US. Stop living in dream world man see the reality where your beloved MBT is wrapped with issues. Intact, with 70imported tech, you shouldn't even call it indigenous.

Thing is simple.

If a platform is not upto Mark, induct it and iron out its flaws.

This is what developers around the world do.

 

[uparyupari]

Absolutely not, but the DODO and its sister concerns for there incompetence in designing true indigenous sensors and other critical equipment and than to make up for it, putting up a huge amount of foreign equipment without even considering the after sales maintenance part.

If the maintenance engineers could not repair the parts, they should ship them to CVRDE, but no, they have to be sent to there original manufacturers ...why??.... because those parts (sensors) aren't designed by our DODO or its sister concerns (other public sector companies) and hence is oblivion to the internal workings of those parts. Net result is non operational tanks and huge operational costs.

DRDO is not responsible for maintenance ............. they are a design agency. Their job is to design as per requirement and ensure it passes all tests. There is NO law or Logic or design requirement that dictates importing sensors is somehow incompetence. This called global supply chain ..... by that same logic US is very incompetent since it imports components from China.

IA handles their own maintenance. So if they can't do it, its THEIR incompetence.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Source?

“Some of the sources of Russians themselves are Western. A lot of them are from Israel, France, etc. So, these are being brought in directly with their approval, or in certain cases we are coordinating the efforts and getting the spares. The issue was relevant for all platforms from Russia,” Parrikar said.

Parrikar further explained, "With concentrated efforts, we have been able to increase the serviceability of the Sukhois by about seven per cent over the last eight-nine months. We have improved the serviceability by seven per cent, almost from 49-50 to 56-57 per cent, we intend to get it 70 per cent by year end".

India Sources Su-30MKI Spares Directly From Israel And France



The same sort of pragmatism will have to be shown in the Arjun case but the precedent has been set and with the prominence of the "Make in India" policy under the GoI one can be certain this is already being addressed as we speak.

 

[Dazzler]

Thing is simple.

If a platform is not upto Mark, induct it and iron out its flaws.

This is what developers around the world do.

What a funny way to "improve" a product lol. Yep you should advertise DRDO ADA etc as the product improvement hubs for countries interested. Just don't mention the "40" year development cycle

 

[帅的一匹]

Those tanks are just for showcase, its typical India vanity project.

 

[macnurv]

sergeant bilko you stupid !

Oh I promoted him hahaha

 

[holysaturn]

It is amazing how ignorant some of the senior members are in PDF when it comes to making defence equipment operational. Either they have no technical expertise or they are just living in denial.Since I have witnessed the arjun issues directly and worked on it, I will percolate some sense into this highly nonsensical discussion by technically deficient members.

Is there a problem with arjuns serviceability? Yes. Is it unusual for a newely inducted equipment? No, it is unusual if issues dont exist.

What are the elements required for servicing a tank?
1.User handbooks.
2.Technical manuals
3.Special Maintenance Tools(SMT)
4.Special Test Equipment(STE)
5.Illustrated List Of Spares(ISPL)
6.Manufacturer Recommended List Of Spares (MRLS)

The MRLS contains
1.Fast moving spares used in everday maintenance and operation(Fuel,Oil,Lubricants,Rubber parts,Seals etc)
2.Periodic repair or event(failures,decreased performance) based repair spares.(Line Replacable Units or "black boxes")
3.Mid Life Overhaul Spares.Slow moving spares like Engines,Transmission etc.

What are the problems of newly inducted equipment?
1.Improper use of equipment due to inadequate Techncial Manual/User Manual/ISPL.
2.SMT/STE may be deficient by failures or inadequate performance.
3.Improper training of user or maintenance personnel.
4.The biggest problem is the estimation of the consumption of spares while operating the equipment over time.

Initially when the numbers in operation are small, there is a low inventory,quality control issues exist, but as the fleet operates and expands ,the recorded operational logs provide a pattern in which the spares are consumed and thus mathematical equations are prepared to make future estimations on inventory.
This is a normal thing which every new equipment undergoes but it is highlighted here because the Arjun story is a favorite story of the media and some technically deficient or intellectually dishonest members are trying create a ruckus here.I challenge pakistani members to refute this with Al Khalid data or any other tank data.

 

[帅的一匹]

My suggestion to Arjun driver when they face T99 tank is: jump out the tank and run away. Arjun= a junk

 

[Kurlang]

Is there a problem with arjuns serviceability? Yes. Is it unusual for a newely inducted equipment? No, it is unusual if issues dont exist.

The curve is for a normal products. Which are time bounded. While in case of Arjun, its neither time bounded nor have definite schedule, its pre-life span took more than 30 years, the rate at which it is progressing, rest assured it will die its own death owning to so many failures in early life that ultimately, it will be abandoned.

To progress first accept your failure...... and move on...... because after several years later, i don't want to waste my time discussing this failure Arjun any more.

 

[holysaturn]

The curve is for a normal products. Which are time bounded. While in case of Arjun, its neither time bounded nor have definite schedule, its pre-life span took more than 30 years, the rate at which it is progressing, rest assured it will die its own death owning to so many failures in early life that ultimately, it will be abandoned.

To progress first accept your failure...... and move on...... because after several years later, i don't want to waste my time discussing this failure Arjun any more.

What do you mean by normal product define it(the above terms are specific for Indian Army Equipment from Army Maintenance Philosophy).This is how obsolence management of defense products work.The serviceability issues have no connection with the performance or reliability of the tank but the system as a whole is affected.Having worked on the arjun as a student,this is how all tanks are operationalised.
Please refute with data on products which are not normal.If people dont want to waste time or have no interest ,then why do they comment here.

 

[Kurlang]

What do you mean by normal product define it(the above terms are specific for Indian Army Equipment from Army Maintenance Philosophy).This is how obsolence management of defense products work.The serviceability issues have no connection with the performance or reliability of the tank but the system as a whole is affected.Having worked on the arjun as a student,this is how all tanks are operationalised.
Please refute with data on products which are not normal.If people dont want to waste time or have no interest ,then why do they comment here.

Actaully every product product follows this bathtub curve, however, for any normal product from concept development to design verification to batch manufacturing and dispatched to the consumer must have some realistic limitations.

When I say, Arjun project itself is abnormal, then let me expain it to you from an example. I hope this works for you. For any given project to be executed from inception to closure, there are some constraints that one must keep in mind for successful implementation of the project.

But for Arjun to be successful, one must need infinite schedule, may in next 50 to 60 years it is finally, I say finally completed.
2. Unlimited budget is needed..... hopeless
3. Scope is not defined.......... may be you want a flying tank I guess
4. Risk......... Oh........ it is minimal, no risk is involved in arjun project.......
5. On quality Arjun rocks...........

Be honest with yourself, for this is how you bring improvement.