Major proportion of Arjun tanks in service not operational

[A2Z]

The Arjun project started way back in 1970s, 1996 govt of India decided to mass produce it and in 19 years only 124 are built. The reality is IA never was and never will be interested in Arjun whether you give them MK2 or MK200. IA is satisfied with russian tanks and prefer them over Arjun every time. The wise thing would be to scrap Arjun project and induct a tank IA wants, at the end of the day they are the ones whose going to use them. If they are not satisfied with what they are getting then its of no use.

 

[Echo_419]

What a funny way to "improve" a product lol. Yep you should advertise DRDO ADA etc as the product improvement hubs for countries interested. Just don't mention the "40" year development cycle

How did you managed to get that think rank tag

 

[IND151]

It is amazing how ignorant some of the senior members are in PDF when it comes to making defence equipment operational. Either they have no technical expertise or they are just living in denial.Since I have witnessed the arjun issues directly and worked on it, I will percolate some sense into this highly nonsensical discussion by technically deficient members.

Is there a problem with arjuns serviceability? Yes. Is it unusual for a newely inducted equipment? No, it is unusual if issues dont exist.

What are the elements required for servicing a tank?
1.User handbooks.
2.Technical manuals
3.Special Maintenance Tools(SMT)
4.Special Test Equipment(STE)
5.Illustrated List Of Spares(ISPL)
6.Manufacturer Requested List Of Spares (MRLS)

The MRLS contains
1.Fast moving spares used in everday maintenance and operation(Fuel,Oil,Lubricants,Rubber parts,Seals etc)
2.Periodic repair or event(failures,decreased performance) based repair spares.(Line Replacable Units or "black boxes")
3.Mid Life Overhaul Spares.Slow moving spares like Engines,Transmission etc.

What are the problems for newly inducted equipment?
1.Improper use of equipment due to inadequate Techncial Manual/User Manual/ISPL.
2.SMT/STE may be deficient by failures or inadequate performance.
3.Improper training of user or maintenance personnel.
4.The biggest problem is the estimation of the consumption of spares while operating the equipment over time.

Initially when the numbers in operation are small, there is a low inventory,quality control issues still exist, but as the fleet operates and expands and the operational logs provide a pattern in which the spares are consumed and thus mathematical equations are prepared to make future estimations on inventory.
This is a normal thing which every new equipment undergoes but it is highlighted here because the Arjun story is a favorite story of the media and some technically deficient or intellectually dishonest members are trying create a ruckus here.I challenge pakistani memeber to refute this with Al Khalid data or any other tank data.

@Dazzler @wanglaokan

 

[holysaturn]

Actaully every product product follows this bathtub curve, however, for any normal product from concept development to design verification to batch manufacturing and dispatched to the consumer must have some realistic limitations.

When I say, Arjun project itself is abnormal, then let me expain it to you from an example. I hope this works for you. For any given project to be executed from inception to closure, there are some constraints that one must keep in mind for successful implementation of the project.

But for Arjun to be successful, one must need infinite schedule, may in next 50 to 60 years it is finally, I say finally completed.
2. Unlimited budget is needed..... hopeless
3. Scope is not defined.......... may be you want a flying tank I guess
4. Risk......... Oh........ it is minimal, no risk is involved in arjun project.......
5. On quality Arjun rocks...........

Be honest with yourself, for this is how you bring improvement.

I though that the discussion is about initial serviceability ,I don’t understand why unrelated stuffare brought in. Please don’t talk about scope,quality of the arjun which you don’t know and are not exposed to. I agree that project management is an issue with the arjun and cost and time risks have not been properly accounted but the platform itself is a fine one.

 

[gslv mk3]

@gslv mk3 see,what i told you? India's Products= 'indigenous'....Pak Products=Not sure..may be Chinese..

Did the article say that Arjun wasn't indigenously developed ?Unless Indian vendors can manufacture them in India,we will continue to buy them from abroad.

You have been whining about Pak's JF-17 etc in almost every thread..that's the answer...! No wonder,same goes for LCA...!

Really ?

Simply put
JF 17/Al Khalid - JV
LCA/Arjun -Indigenous

 

[IND151]

The Arjun project started way back in 1970s, 1996 govt of India decided to mass produce it and in 19 years only 124 are built. The reality is IA never was and never will be interested in Arjun whether you give them MK2 or MK200. IA is satisfied with russian tanks and prefer them over Arjun every time. The wise thing would be to scrap Arjun project and induct a tank IA wants, at the end of the day they are the ones whose going to use them. If they are not satisfied with what they are getting then its of no use.

The Pakistani interest in M 1 led to change in GSQR.

Initially Arjun was a tank with 115 MM gn and many sources suggest its original inetended weight was 40 Tons.

Now it is beast with 120 MM gun and 67 Ton weight.

GSQRs of Arjun were changed many times, plus there were many other factors.

 

[holysaturn]

Thank you very much for bringing in much needed value (matter) in the discussion. Would you be kind to throw some more light on these:

• Arjun has never been a darling of Indian army. Why is it so..?? (kickbacks from russian or operational issue or unfamiliarity with the platform etc etc)
• This report says, many parts (or sensors) have to be sent abroad for repairing. How much truth is in them and how is army looking at mk2

Import lobby and vested interests exist in the army just like in the other services but that is not the sole reason but a major reason.

Yes, the gunners main sight,gun control system,engine, transmission and some other LRU(black boxes) are sent abroad for repair but the testing, certification of these subsystems have been established locally, for example BEL Nungambakkam,Chennai is the nodal agency for testing and certification of Arjun Vectronics,appropriate infrastructure has been created.

Manufacturers don’t share a lot of the data on these subsystems which is why these are called black boxes.

 

[Spy Master]

Did the article say that Arjun wasn't indigenously developed ?Unless Indian vendors can manufacture them in India,we will continue to buy them from abroad.



Really ?

Simply put
JF 17/Al Khalid - JV
LCA/Arjun -Indigenous

Did you even read the portion i highlighted Mr. Egoistic ? you just start writing what you have been told to feel happy..read the article again...it was you who told me that to call a product to be indigenous,you must manufacture it all from start not by assembling it under TOT from china

 

[IND151]

Did the article say that Arjun wasn't indigenously developed ?Unless Indian vendors can manufacture them in India,we will continue to buy them from abroad.



Really ?

Simply put
JF 17/Al Khalid - JV
LCA/Arjun -Indigenous

JF 17 is JV. JF stands for Joint Fighter.

The PAC JF-17 Thunder (Urdu: جے ایف-١٧ گرج‎), or CAC FC-1 Xiaolong (Fierce Dragon; Chinese: 枭龙; pinyin: Xiāo Lóng), is a lightweight, single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft developed jointly by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of China.

 

[gslv mk3]

t was you who told me that to call a product to be indigenous,you must manufacture it all from start not by assembling it under TOT from china

I never said 'manufacture it all'That way a Su 30 MKI manufactured in India would be more indigenous than our LCA.

For anything to be called indigenous-It must be indigenously developed.You can't say the same about Al Khalid or JF 17.

 

[Spy Master]

I never said 'manufacture it all'That way a Su 30 MKI manufactured in India would be more indigenous than our LCA.

For anything to be called indigenous-It must be indigenously developed.You can't say the same about Al Khalid or JF 17.

Yes...by manufacture i meant to develop a new product from scratch..since you didn't read the article..let me help you...
" the fleet as such is not combat worthy due to reliability issues. "A number of tanks are not operational currently as transfer of technology (ToT) of several imported systems fitted onboard has not been done," an Army official said. "

How much it is indigenous sir....Now i know you will, don't come up with a new theory..plz...it will only contradict your previous statements!

 

[gslv mk3]

Yes...by manufacture i meant to develop a new product from scratch..since you didn't read the article..let me help you...
" the fleet as such is not combat worthy due to reliability issues. "A number of tanks are not operational currently as transfer of technology (ToT) of several imported systems fitted onboard has not been done," an Army official said. "

How much it is indigenous sir....Now i know you will, don't come up with a new theory..plz...it will only contradict your previous statements!

Again you didn't get that- the RD 33 engine on your JF 17 is an imported system,you know that ?

 

[IND151]

Yes...by manufacture i meant to develop a new product from scratch..since you didn't read the article..let me help you...
" the fleet as such is not combat worthy due to reliability issues. "A number of tanks are not operational currently as transfer of technology (ToT) of several imported systems fitted onboard has not been done," an Army official said. "

How much it is indigenous sir....Now i know you will, don't come up with a new theory..plz...it will only contradict your previous statements!

Ever wondered why Abrams have German Gun?

Arjun is a tank Developed by India

indigenous

adjective

1. originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.

Arjun is tank developed indigenously, it has been designed by DRDO.

It has many subsytems which are imported.

 

[Mike_Brando]

My suggestion to Arjun driver when they face T99 tank is: jump out the tank and run away. Arjun= a junk

Come on,every body on this God's green earth knows that the T-99 is nothing but a tin can on wheels.Chinese have failed to make a decent tank even after reverse engineering thousands of Soviet tanks illegally for the last 5 decades.Given a choice,one would rather choose an old T-55 over the T-99 which is nothing but a plain junk.Even a RCL round can penetrate that tin can from over a distance of 1500 m.So my personal opinion is instead of building these junks Chinese companies should rather reverse engineer the old soviet T-72 tanks which are still way better than these tin cans!!

 

[Spy Master]

Again you didn't get that- the RD 33 engine on your JF 17 is an imported system,you know that ?

Did I ever say that it is Indigenous?