Major difference between China meritocracy and many other autocratic countries.

[Rakesh]

There is accountability in chinese system. There is no accountability in western democracy.

When things mess up in China people look for Cpc.

When things mess up in west another oligarch from the same elite network will be voted in. Nothing change

My question is, when things mess up in China, can look back in to the eyes of CPC and say...you did it ?

 

[Song Hong]

Vietnam is run by VCP, China by Ccp. The difference lies in the beginning letter. VCP chairmen has no any executive power. Money runs the world but that’s another story.

Despite of short coming in Vietnam system, cpv manage to rectify many errors for example, by getting rid of nguyen tan Dung.


No one in US get jail for 2008 wall st

 

[Song Hong]

My question is, when things mess up in China, can look back in to the eyes of CPC and say...you did it ?

Today one is allowed to criticize the Cpc. There is freedom of speech in China.

For example beijing boss cai qi got criticized when he was caught insulting the people

 

[Viet]

Despite of short coming in Vietnam system, cpv manage to rectify many errors for example, by getting rid of nguyen tan Dung.


No one in US get jail for 2008 wall st

Come on, communist chinese dislike nguyen tan dung because he criticized aggressive politics of communist China. Critics to China are dangerous. The PLA is full of men and women that are bored because no wars happen.

 

[vi-va]

Come on, communist chinese dislike nguyen tan dung because he criticized aggressive politics of communist China. Critics to China are dangerous. The PLA is full of men and women that are bored because no wars happen.

@Song Hong, comrade, please help to stay on philosophy and system level discussion. No one can win endless debate with @Viet.
@Viet, please help to stay on China system vs western system, compare the philosophy, pros and cons. VCP is a sub branch of CCP in both ideology and organizational behavior perspective. I hope we can stay away from endless discussion of details.

 

[Mista]

please help to stay on China system vs western system, compare the philosophy, pros and cons.

Political systems must suit the country's national temperament and history, and continually evolve as technology and society changes. That's one area I think China did right, which is to continue to evolve her political system as her economy and society develops, contrasted to the US which the constitution is basically the same for hundreds of years.

Growing up in Singapore with a dominant party system, I believe that meritocracy is better than democracy. I still believe that meritocracy generally produces a better set of leaders, but now I'm more nuanced about it. Because I've seen how the ruling party have accepted feedback from the people and done better after they suffered some electoral setback.

I think that's a reason why despite all criticisms LKY had for democracy and having complete dominance of the parliament when he was in power, he still believes it has a role to play in Singapore's politics.

42:33

What we have to prevent or mitigate is populism and the exuberance of democracy, but I think that goes for any ideology or political system. As the Chinese saying goes, 物极必反.

Just go for whatever that works, don't be blinded or restricted by any philosophy or ideology.

 

[ToddBing]

When US has the most Covid cases in the world and with the virus lost control, US's secretary of health Alex Azar II started a politic show by visiting Taiwan...
This can never be imagined in China.
CPC do have more power than ruling parties in other countries,meanwhile, Chinese people have more higher requirement at CPC.

 

[Song Hong]

It is questionable whether PAP really stand with people or stand against the people today.

PAP was conceived as a one stand stand between Malayan communist party and Lee Kuan Yew. The vibrancy of communism was what swept PAP to power.

Later, the most idealistic faction(communist) was purged.

Communist was vilified and history was faked and forged by Lee Kuan Yew. Reactive elements especially Goh Chok Tong and George Yeo were brought in.

Lee Hsien Loong born with silver spoon knows nothing about the people.

Singapore future is bleak and hopeless.

Political systems must suit the country's national temperament and history, and continually evolve as technology and society changes. That's one area I think China did right, which is to continue to evolve her political system as her economy and society develops, contrasted to the US which the constitution is basically the same for hundreds of years.

Growing up in Singapore with a dominant party system, I believe that meritocracy is better than democracy. I still believe that meritocracy generally produces a better set of leaders, but now I'm more nuanced about it. Because I've seen how the ruling party have accepted feedback from the people and done better after they suffered some electoral setback.

I think that's a reason why despite all criticisms LKY had for democracy and having complete dominance of the parliament when he was in power, he still believes it has a role to play in Singapore's politics.

42:33

What we have to prevent or mitigate is populism and the exuberance of democracy, but I think that goes for any ideology or political system. As the Chinese saying goes, 物极必反.

Just go for whatever that works, don't be blinded or restricted by any philosophy or ideology.

 

[vi-va]

Political systems must suit the country's national temperament and history, and continually evolve as technology and society changes. That's one area I think China did right, which is to continue to evolve her political system as her economy and society develops, contrasted to the US which the constitution is basically the same for hundreds of years.

Growing up in Singapore with a dominant party system, I believe that meritocracy is better than democracy. I still believe that meritocracy generally produces a better set of leaders, but now I'm more nuanced about it. Because I've seen how the ruling party have accepted feedback from the people and done better after they suffered some electoral setback.

I think that's a reason why despite all criticisms LKY had for democracy and having complete dominance of the parliament when he was in power, he still believes it has a role to play in Singapore's politics.

42:33

What we have to prevent or mitigate is populism and the exuberance of democracy, but I think that goes for any ideology or political system. As the Chinese saying goes, 物极必反.

Just go for whatever that works, don't be blinded or restricted by any philosophy or ideology.

It's kind of like what I just said. There should be a Philosopher King on top of the system.
That's why I like Iran political system, although I am not a big fan of their social restriction.

Republic (Plato)

I would prefer Philosopher King

In dynasty China, actually the rulers are the Emperor and Scholar-Official class(士大夫阶层) combined.

"Theoretically, this system would create a meritocratic ruling class, with the best students running the country. The examinations gave many people the opportunity to pursue political power and honor — and thus encouraged serious pursuit of formal education. Since the system did not formally discriminate based on social status, it provided an avenue for upward social mobility."

In contrast, ancient India adopted a system base on CASTE, which formally discriminate based on social status. Caste system blocked an avenue for upward social mobility.

 

[vi-va]

Political systems must suit the country's national temperament and history, and continually evolve as technology and society changes. That's one area I think China did right, which is to continue to evolve her political system as her economy and society develops, contrasted to the US which the constitution is basically the same for hundreds of years.

Growing up in Singapore with a dominant party system, I believe that meritocracy is better than democracy. I still believe that meritocracy generally produces a better set of leaders, but now I'm more nuanced about it. Because I've seen how the ruling party have accepted feedback from the people and done better after they suffered some electoral setback.

I think that's a reason why despite all criticisms LKY had for democracy and having complete dominance of the parliament when he was in power, he still believes it has a role to play in Singapore's politics.

42:33

What we have to prevent or mitigate is populism and the exuberance of democracy, but I think that goes for any ideology or political system. As the Chinese saying goes, 物极必反.

Just go for whatever that works, don't be blinded or restricted by any philosophy or ideology.

There are things which shaped Singapore political atmosphere.

1. Singapore strategic location, which attracts great powers. The great powers will project power and pressure on Singapore. Good and bad you can't resist, you can only dance with them, on eggshell. 与狼共舞
2. Singapore has a Han Chinese ethnic root, and surrendered by hostile neighbors, religion difference, ethnic difference, culture difference, military power gap. 非我族类其心必异
3. By default, WASP does NOT trust you guys because you have a Han Chinese ethnic root. LKY successfully win the trust and stay in power. 玩弄大国于股掌之上
4. If LKY failed to win the great power's heart, Singapore will be destroyed, or conquered. WASP will make sure Han Chinese will be wiped out from Strait of Malacca. No mercy. 夹缝生存
5. Singapore has to leverage the great power and rule-based international system to survive. 善用游戏规则
6. In past 60 years, Singapore only need to deal with the west for protection, especially US. So Singapore has no better choice other than western system. LKY just fake the multi party system to disguise one party rule. 人在屋檐下不得不低头

China will dominant SCS, and project power on Strait of Malacca. Good and bad you can't resist, you can only dance with us and the west together, on eggshell.三十年河东三十年河西

Personally, I think Singapore should stay neutral, just to be safe. It's a very dangerous jungle world. The beast does eat flesh.适者生存

===============
Now China

1. China on the other hand, damn same as Singapore. One party rule.
2. China has no interest to fake the multi party system and election. We are just too big, to complex, we can not bear the transfer of power every 4-6 year. The transfer of power does comes with a cost, very high cost.治大国如烹小鲜，来回翻面鱼就碎了
3. China has same hostile neighborhood as Singapore. We are squeezed by 2 super powers during Cold War, and hostile India, Japan, Taiwan and Vietnam. 分化联合各个击破
4. The west will sneak in during the transfer of power. Party struggle will provide enormous opportunities for our rivals and enemies. We can't take that risk. 防范第五纵队
5. By default, WASP does NOT trust Chinese, religion difference, ethnic difference, culture difference, military power gap. We have to be strong for self protection. Everything else is secondary. 非我族类其心必异

Don't take every words out of LKY's mouth. He is politicians, and politicians say what's need to be said. LKY is outstanding politician and statesman. He can say a lot of things while others dare not. Even though he is still a politician, so we need to distinguish.

A state first priority is survival. Anything else is secondary. Singapore political system is well designed to accommodate hostile international environment and hostile neighborhood.

China is the same. 韬光养晦

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

It's such a simple idea that I'm surprised the West, even with all its ideological biases, has failed to grasp it: China is the only country in the world with a professional political class. Politics is a profession like medicine, you go to a school of government to study it (much like physicians study in a school of medicine), and you are examined and licensed to practice it (again, much like physicians are licensed to practice medicine). That's really all there is to it.

But the West attaches religious significance to the ritual of choosing leaders through popularity contests, so it'll never advance to this level.

 

[Mista]

If LKY failed to win the great power's heart, Singapore will be destroyed, or conquered. WASP will make sure Han Chinese will be wiped out from Strait of Malacca. No mercy.

In past 60 years, Singapore only need to deal with the west for protection, especially US.

LKY is not always pro-US. I think he's actually a bit anti-US when Singapore gained independence, and that's when Singapore is at her most vulnerable after getting booted out of Malaysia.

 

[Song Hong]

That pretty sums up well. More rationale that those China forumers, who obviously express the CPC line -- that is a disappointment with Singaporean Chinese not being aligned more with China interest.

Recently years, China leadership seems start to understand more on the predicament of Singapore.

There are things which shaped Singapore political atmosphere.

1. Singapore strategic location, which attracts great powers. The great powers will project power and pressure on Singapore. Good and bad you can't resist, you can only dance with them, on eggshell.
2. Singapore has a Han Chinese ethnic root, and surrendered by hostile neighbors, religion difference, ethnic difference, culture difference, military power gap.
3. By default, WASP does NOT trust you guys because you have a Han Chinese ethnic root. LKY successfully win the trust and stay in power.
4. If LKY failed to win the great power's heart, Singapore will be destroyed, or conquered. WASP will make sure Han Chinese will be wiped out from Strait of Malacca. No mercy.
5. Singapore has to leverage the great power and rule-based international system to survive.
6. In past 60 years, Singapore only need to deal with the west for protection, especially US. So Singapore has no better choice other than western system. LKY just fake the multi party system to disguise one party rule.

China will dominant SCS, and project power on Strait of Malacca. Good and bad you can't resist, you can only dance with us and the west together, on eggshell.

Personally, I think Singapore should stay neutral, just to be safe. It's a very dangerous jungle world. The beast does eat flesh.

 

[vi-va]

That pretty sums up well. More rationale that those China forumers, who obviously express the CPC line -- that is a disappointment with Singaporean Chinese not being aligned more with China interest.

Recently years, China leadership seems start to understand more on the predicament of Singapore.

I just updated. Please see above.

LKY is not always pro-US. I think he's actually a bit anti-US when Singapore gained independence, and that's when Singapore is at her most vulnerable after getting booted out of Malaysia.

That's why there is only one LKY, a true Statesman.

I always admire LKY since college. I read his books, his speech. Learn from his strategy.

He is not only a politician, he and a few figures are in a different category in history.

 

[Zsari]

My question is, when things mess up in China, can look back in to the eyes of CPC and say...you did it ?

When the government action are unpopular, there will be a large push back and the government often changes it's policy very quickly. The visa roll out for example was halted because of the public outcry on social media. There are many more cases of quick government response based on public opinion. Remember there is no one else to shift the blame to, nor media spinning by interest group that manipulates the public. If you think the people cannot voice their concerns being critical of the ruling party, then you have no idea what's on the Chinese social media.