Major Changes Ahead on JF-17 Block-3

[Djinn]

Hi,

There is no such thing as a 5th generation version of JF17----. That clearly shows that you have no clue what te term means----. JF17 will end as a 4--4.5 gen aircraft---that is the limit of the design.

I said it might lead to the development of one.The only thing that is proven here is that, you didn't grasp my post. Perhaps they will bring some changes to the design, so i have to disagree with you on this.

This does not put to rest any claims that it was the right aircraft.
This would have been a right aircraft when the nation had FREE time and no threats from the enemy. It in itself is not the right aircraft to fulfill the need of the defense of Pakistan----because it has miniscule strike capabilities which are all defensive in nature.

The Iraqis suffered in the first gulf war---because they made it a DEFENSIVE war----they dug in and waited for the enemy----.

The German----were ploughing thru in Europe till they build a defensive line on the beaches of france.

Our measly navy----they died 2500 miles away---waging war on the other side of India---in the submarine hunting for the indian assets-----our soldiers died on the other side of the border during kargil----and our frigging air force wants to fight on our soil----?

Why----because they want to be called a defensive air force----defensive my ar-se----these guys are being led by cowards----that is what the air force has been for the last many years----.

14 years it has been and still no air superiority fighter to compete and take down the enemy one on one---nt a single aircraft that the enemy is concerned about----.

I don't give a sh-it about the slogan of the PAF we will give our live for the country----I want a slogan that we will kill the enemy in the land of the enemy----.

I don't give a sh-it about the slogan of we will give them a bloody nose----I want a slogan that we will smash them to kingdom come---.

Who gives a diddly sh-it about gaining knowledge with a puny little aircraft when we have to face 240 monster breathing death and destruction from everywhere.

This R&D is for those who have FREE TIME----or when you have secured your assets with the right aircraft and then you can develop these kind of aircraft.

So---400 million in development of this aircraft

20 million a piece----a total of 70 JF 17----being built and in operation----1.5 Billion dollars

So----for 14 years----is this what we have to show for-----2 Billion dollars of procurement that is all------

You don't even qualify to WIPE YOUR OWN NOSE YET----where come the no losing of your sleep----.

You have to know and understand the levels of threat that is being faced to lose sleep----if you are totally clueless---then off course----what losing of sleep---you can party 24/7 and have a good time because it matters nothing to you because you cannot comprehend the threat.

I am sorry you have erected a long tirade of your subjective beliefs and targeted me for not having enough understanding of the situation, but what you yourself have overlooked is the fact that Pakistan-India environment doesn't bear any resemblance with what Iraqi's did and what the Germans did. NUCLEAR ENVIRONMENT is not a cyber play ground where cyber-warriors can easily fight any war they desire. A note out of history, Ever since Pakistan has acquired f-16's have they ever gone head to head against IAF..............Do you know why that didn't happen?
When you say there is gonna come a barrage of super duper high tech Indian jets from across the border, then to validate your subjectivity, you will have to mention under which circumstance would that ever happen in a nuclear environment.
Block3 is around the corner and the fact that PAF has been able to bring in some of the most advanced features, speaks volumes of how valuable experience and R&D are. Sorry to say but your stance is utterly flawed, If that was correct Pakistan would have upgraded F-16's to the block 70's level by now but that didn't happen, because it was not our aircraft, but JF is and is the the only best option Pakistan has got unless Pakistan goes for any other aircraft with full ToT.

 

[Basel]

PAC is planning something special and lethal for JF-17 Block III or IV. Wait for more guys,

There was an MOU for stealthy version of JF-17 but no news about it.

 

[Indus Falcon]

And what is your education....zilch..

Because he is an ignorant/illiterate guy who know nothing about airplane design and aerodynamics. He most probably is from some indian slums and came here to troll.

Check his name stealth and then he is lying too as JF-17 Thunder is a beautiful fighter jet with iconic modern shape. JF-17 is a new aircraft so he is lying "20 yrs".....this is very typical of jealous and looser indian who have failed to produce LCA despite billions of dollar and foreign collaborations and so many decades of work for nothing. While JF-17 is already been updated to block-3 and also being exported to many countries.

Link please. I want to read

Brother please calm down. Stealth is very respectable member of this forum. Kindly do not insult him like this.

You are entitled to your opinions, and nobody will stop you from expressing them, as long as you are civil about it.

Kindly do take this in the right spirit.

Thank You & Best Regards

 

[MastanKhan]

I said it might lead to the development of one.The only thing that is proven here is that, you didn't grasp my post. Perhaps they will bring some changes to the design, so i have to disagree with you on this.

I am sorry you have erected a long tirade of your subjective beliefs and targeted me for not having enough understanding of the situation, but what you yourself have overlooked is the fact that Pakistan-India environment doesn't bear any resemblance with what Iraqi's did and what the Germans did. NUCLEAR ENVIRONMENT is not a cyber play ground where cyber-warriors can easily fight any war they desire. A note out of history, Ever since Pakistan has acquired f-16's have they ever gone head to head against IAF..............Do you know why that didn't happen?
When you say there is gonna come a barrage of super duper high tech Indian jets from across the border, then to validate your subjectivity, you will have to mention under which circumstance would that ever happen in a nuclear environment.
Block3 is around the corner and the fact that PAF has been able to bring in some of the most advanced features, speaks volumes of how valuable experience and R&D are. Sorry to say but your stance is utterly flawed, If that was correct Pakistan would have upgraded F-16's to the block 70's level by now but that didn't happen, because it was not our aircraft, but JF is and is the the only best option Pakistan has got unless Pakistan goes for any other aircraft with full ToT.

Hi,

Kid----you are just at the research stage in you r life in school.

Nuclear war is not going to happen----who wants to die just like that---who wants their children evaporated in a flash----.

This nuc deterrent has created a bigger problem for Pakistan---because with the nuc umbrella---PAF has faltered in its commitment to provide the nation with the right defense and offensive capability---.

If we can divert a nuc war if we could have had air superiority aircraft---then why would we not---. Why do we want to live under the umbrella of nuc war and nuc strikes----.

With a 5---10 BILLION dollars investment----nuc war can be diverted----. With this amount of money---to procure heavy frontline aircraft------to take the battle to the other side---strong and deep.

For just the lack of investment of 10 billion dollars----you want to destroy the nation of Pakistan----

HOW STUPID ARE THOSE FROM MY MOTHERLAND


This nuc drama by Pakistan was good till 2001----after that they had the money and the time to get fighter aircraft so that nuc threat would have diminished---.

That is why I have stated many a times---Pakistan air force are TRAITORS to the country by their inaction to buy the right aircraft---.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Hi,

Kid----you are just at the research stage in you r life in school.

Nuclear war is not going to happen----who wants to die just like that---who wants their children evaporated in a flash----.

This nuc deterrent has created a bigger problem for Pakistan---because with the nuc umbrella---PAF has faltered in its commitment to provide the nation with the right defense and offensive capability---.

If we can divert a nuc war if we could have had air superiority aircraft---then why would we not---. Why do we want to live under the umbrella of nuc war and nuc strikes----.

With a 5---10 BILLION dollars investment----nuc war can be diverted----. With this amount of money---to procure heavy frontline aircraft------to take the battle to the other side---strong and deep.

For just the lack of investment of 10 billion dollars----you want to destroy the nation of Pakistan----

HOW STUPID ARE THOSE FROM MY MOTHERLAND

Very stupid, now lets move on. What would the PAF buy with $10bn?

 

[Basel]

Very stupid, now lets move on. What would the PAF buy with $10bn?

Who is providing that money?? you??

 

[Indus Falcon]

Who is providing that money?? you??

If I had that kind of money, I would have bought PDF, and kicked out all the coconut oil slathering neighbors

 

[MastanKhan]

Very stupid, now lets move on. What would the PAF buy with $10bn?

Hi,

They had Rafale available till 2005---they had F 18's available----. But they decided to develop this puny little aircraft---to do what---to give a bloody nose---.

What then happens after you give a bloody nose to someone 3 times your size. He comes and smashes you to kingdom come----.

We keep making threats of nuc strikes----to do what---so that my children and my family is evaporated along with million others---because this moronic organization could not make and secure the purchase of the right aircraft in the given time.

Nuc threats are so passe----they were good during Kargil operation---at that time Pakistan was poor and broke---now Pakistan is well of and there is hope---so who wants to die just for egos only----when the defenses could be secured with the right amount of cash----.

My question to Pakistanis is---with 10 billion dollars spent---Pakistan did not need to make the nuc threat anymore and would have done with the conventional weapons---would you have preferred that so that your families could live in peace or at least UNDER THE SHADOWS OF CONVENTIONAL THREAT OF WAR---and still not feel vulnerable---so that you did not have to make nuc threats anymore.

 

[[Bregs]]

Hi,

They had Rafale available till 2005---they had F 18's available----. But they decided to develop this puny little aircraft---to do what---to give a bloody nose---.

What then happens after you give a bloody nose to someone 3 times your size. He comes and smashes you to kingdom come----.

We keep making threats of nuc strikes----to do what---so that my children and my family is evaporated along with million others---because this moronic organization could not make and secure the purchase of the right aircraft in the given time.

Nuc threats are so passe----they were good during Kargil operation---at that time Pakistan was poor and broke---now Pakistan is well of and there is hope---so who wants to die just for egos only----when the defenses could be secured with the right amount of cash----.

My question to Pakistanis is---with 10 billion dollars spent---Pakistan did not need to make the nuc threat anymore and would have done with the conventional weapons---would you have preferred that so that your families could live in peace or at least UNDER THE SHADOWS OF CONVENTIONAL THREAT OF WAR---and still not feel vulnerable---so that you did not have to make nuc threats anymore.

very mature, balanced and worthy reply by you khan saab, Nuclear weapons can prevent war for a specific period but they are hardly used

Since no major war is impending between two countries Pakistan can still get front line aircrafts as we are focusing on economy and pakistan too on internal terror and its economy

 

[SQ8]

Have to hand it to the author; puts title as major changes and then ends article with no changes in airframe but lots of updates in avionics, which somehow everyone already knew from 2011.

 

[Mutakalim]

the PAF needs 4 squadrons of F-16 Block 61 and two of F-16XL(lockheed martin must restart production line) and 5 squadrons of EFT with 4 of Gripen along with PN having six of Su-35 and Mig-35 each.. We also need to buy ten squadrons of J-10B and C along with replacing all Allouettes with NH-90 and Sea king with EH-101. For 5th gen we need to buy 15 squadrons of J-31 along with working with Turkey to buy ten squadrons of their TFX. AND 10 SQd of F 35

Finally we need 4 more Erieye and 6 more ZDK along with A-380 AEW doing JV with Belarus.

,many peoples cant understand that,they just stick to term that
"JFT is not meant for that"
It is total idiotic that India will field only Mig-21 against JFT,the truth is that India may never use them but instead they are just being used to maintain squadrons and flying hours.In any conflict (minus China),India would at least send 200+ 4+ gen fighters to attack what we have just 76 F-16 and 100 JFT now look what they have to do...
1)A2A. (F-16,JFT)
2)CAS. (F-16,JFT)
3)CAP. (F-16,JFT)
4)SEAD & DEAD.(JFT)
5)Bombing of strategics targets. (Nothing)
6)Deep strike Mission a.ka. DAS. (18 F-16 blk 52 what if they are lost)
7)Patrolling over sea lines. (F-16,JFT)
8)Escorting Anti-Submarine Aircraft.(No one can do this except j-11.jh-7 or Su-35)
Just calculate how much out of these Vital Missions 176 Aircraft will do.
-We have more AWACS to look on enemy and less Fighters to destroy enemy.
-With Small Radar System on JFT you cant expect 100% hit rate of Missiles launched from that against ships.
-JFT has 2 must Fuel tanks which have there own draw backs.

Cant believe it.

You're emerging as new nishan101

He is Copypaste101

If I get you right ... i.e. 60 squadrons of latest fighters plus 10 AEW Air Crafts ... which is easily 1000 to 1200 planes in all to purchase. If you factor in all associated paraphernalia to a new air craft type being inducted i.e. weapons, spares, training etc. ... all this may cost anywhere between USD 80 -to- 100 billion (quite possibly even more).

I am willing to think you posted in joke or sarcasm.

Otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

In the same spirit may I recommend also acquiring the WARP 9.8+ capable Enterprise-NCC-1701-E Sovereign Class with regenerating shields and abulative hull armor and quantum torpedoes?

O yaar kid is just copy pasting two posts.

 

[Tipu7]

Hi,

They had Rafale available till 2005---they had F 18's available----. But they decided to develop this puny little aircraft---to do what---to give a bloody nose---.

What then happens after you give a bloody nose to someone 3 times your size. He comes and smashes you to kingdom come----.

We keep making threats of nuc strikes----to do what---so that my children and my family is evaporated along with million others---because this moronic organization could not make and secure the purchase of the right aircraft in the given time.

Nuc threats are so passe----they were good during Kargil operation---at that time Pakistan was poor and broke---now Pakistan is well of and there is hope---so who wants to die just for egos only----when the defenses could be secured with the right amount of cash----.

My question to Pakistanis is---with 10 billion dollars spent---Pakistan did not need to make the nuc threat anymore and would have done with the conventional weapons---would you have preferred that so that your families could live in peace or at least UNDER THE SHADOWS OF CONVENTIONAL THREAT OF WAR---and still not feel vulnerable---so that you did not have to make nuc threats anymore.

Sir I often ask your personal choice.
What do you think PAF must induct by 2019....'? Let's forget Naval strike air craft for a while ...... what do you think PAF must have in current sunerio???

 

[abdulbarijan]

Sir I often ask your personal choice.
What do you think PAF must induct by 2019....'? Let's forget Naval strike air craft for a while ...... what do you think PAF must have in current sunerio???

Although your question is posted for Mastan Bhai .... lemme just put a couple of my pointers as well ...

- What we procure is the end result of many factors mainly the need associated with that procurement, the budget we are willing to spend to satisfy that need, the politics involved to get that product with the least bit of "strings" as possible .. etc.While there is much more that goes in to a procurement ... however this is usually the generic basis at while most products are procured ....

So when we talk here at PDF, one thing that rightfully angers the serious posters here -- are the wish listers because they do not account for any of these variables that ultimately dictate a decision ... and most of the serious members -- when suggest a fighter, they have these generic variables in the back of their mind ... eg. say the JH-7 suggestion by MK, satisfies all these variables, as there is a definite need for a naval air arm ... thats a lesson that 1971 taught us and all the more need of it now as the CPEC project is underway, it (JH-7) is cost effective and would be procured by China (less strings), if we actually ended up procuring it ...

A healthy debate is then fostered when people put up points to contest the original points ... eg. @Viper0011. might think that the jet is a little too old and that it is better to go for a technologically superior fighter and then people would go back and forth on the political and economical complexities in situation a,b and c etc...

That right there is a healthy debate, where there are people posting actual points instead of wish lists like we know most new recruits have been doing lately on certainly all of the threads that I've witnessed ....

Coming to your question though, although once again, addressed to @MastanKhan , In my opinion, the need would be the result of what IAF is procuring ... so when you have SU-30 MKI (more numbers), Mig-29 + M2K's (upgrades + more Mig-29) and the old Mig fleet of IAF to contest with ... the best thing is to go for additional JF-17's (adding advancer blocks and new potent weapons) replacing our older fleet completely with JF-17's and additional falcons with MLU upgrades ....

At this point you have to look at your doctrine.. which once again ... dictates your "need" -- so if you have a defensive doctrine like the one PAF currently has ... we can achieve our goals with that .. but when you go in a doctrine where you dictate the terms ... then the need shifts to having a strike platform ... that could be anything like the J-series or one of the SU's ... whatever..... But if the IAF goes through with the MMRCA, then the need shifts (even under our current doctrine) to having a platform that can serve as the higher end along side the blk-52's and that again, is open to discussion .... The best solution under that is to go for a multi role heavy duty that can perform as a strike platform, can use our stand off weapons to their max potential and reek havoc on the opponent ....

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir I often ask your personal choice.
What do you think PAF must induct by 2019....'? Let's forget Naval strike air craft for a while ...... what do you think PAF must have in current sunerio???

Hi,

This is a very difficult question to answer---if you are asking what about today-----because Pakistan has put itself into an extremely precarious position.

First---it should have gone with the French in 2002--03 straight away---. Rafale was the aircraft of choice----. The weapons package of Rafale puts it in league with any other aircraft below the 5th gen aircraft----. Now you could say---man behind the machine counts----because now you are giving him a Formula 1 car to compete with other Formula 1 cars.

A substantial number of these aircraft would have brought peace to the region---. Peace would mean that Pakistani politicians and generals and prime minister d not have to go on the media to talk about nuc----because when you keep talking abut the nuc---people get tired of hearing about the nuc---then after awhile they start to think what the nuc would do to their life styles 10 thousand miles away---and when they realize that---they get mad at you for jeopardizing their life for your dumb and moronic causes---.

They start to lose compassion for you and stop caring for you----and that is not good for nation.

The other aircraft of choice was the FA18-----.

Okay---none of these---then the target should have been to have over 150---200 blk 52 category F16's by now. So---now we have nothing---.

Then we have the J10B----. There was no reason to deny the offer of 18 J10B's lately----. This mindset of 'keep them when we need them we will get them' stops you from moving ahead.

We should have looked for 72 J10B's----.

If we did not have JF17's---we would have had

F16's
J10B's
J11D's or SU35
JH7B's----naval strike version is a must---it needs to shoved down the throat of PAF-----Gurjat needs to feel the heat from Ahmedabad to Mumbai and Pune

So---with JF17's---you still have and need the following

F16's---not enough of them so
J10B's
J11D's or SU35's
JH7B's

Without the JF 17's---you would need to have an air force of 350 frontline fighters and strike aircraft.

With the JF 17's---you would need to be around 450--500 aircraft.

The life---security and integrity of Pakistan has been put on stake on a developing small little aircraft----that should have never been allowed to happe.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Hi,

They had Rafale available till 2005---they had F 18's available----. But they decided to develop this puny little aircraft---to do what---to give a bloody nose---.

What then happens after you give a bloody nose to someone 3 times your size. He comes and smashes you to kingdom come----.

We keep making threats of nuc strikes----to do what---so that my children and my family is evaporated along with million others---because this moronic organization could not make and secure the purchase of the right aircraft in the given time.

Nuc threats are so passe----they were good during Kargil operation---at that time Pakistan was poor and broke---now Pakistan is well of and there is hope---so who wants to die just for egos only----when the defenses could be secured with the right amount of cash----.

My question to Pakistanis is---with 10 billion dollars spent---Pakistan did not need to make the nuc threat anymore and would have done with the conventional weapons---would you have preferred that so that your families could live in peace or at least UNDER THE SHADOWS OF CONVENTIONAL THREAT OF WAR---and still not feel vulnerable---so that you did not have to make nuc threats anymore.

We didn't avail opportunities, We were front line state on war against terrorism , Bush was on our one side, Tony Blair on other side, during this time, our nation was busy in debating Osama bin ladin did 9/11 or amercica did it. Blah Blah is shaheed, Blah Blah can defeat america.... What a silly debate. We are bad negotiators too, we didn't put conditions of supporting such big war and ask for 80 billion dollar to tackle such big threat. Mullah were nuking America this time but our bubble burst during Osama raid.
We were caught. And people says why world don't trust Pakistan.
Still some blind supporter of political party will Come here and say Chinese AWACs were biggest mistake while they knows that we are going towards China for future jets. There is limit of ignorance and stupidity, Our nation crossed it all.
Now, we are buying time, and want to fill gap with old used F16s.
We didn't prepare ourselves, and continued drum beating of our best pilots in the world, actually helping india to get top training from Israel and U.S.A .
Now, Skill is not key and only factor to win war, this is machine which matters most and new gen missiles, with pin point precision , fast & furious, hence leaving less change to save arse .
Jf17 with AWACS, and new gen missiles, it is potent fighter in this league, it is just matter of see first with the help of AWACS surrounded with jets, but it still needs other truck bomb fighters to tackle such bigger airforce of India with beasts like upgraded Su30, mirage 2000, Mig29s.
We should continue jf17 program, Upgrade it to max level, continue to get hypersonic missiles I. e CM 400AKG for it, darter missile and SD10s but we also need true 4.5 gen fighter like f18 beasts, typhoon or j11s.
While this is good news we are getting 8 submarines. It will give us true second strike capability too but we can't ignore our airforce which is key to win any battle.
We need medium and long range SAMS too to help our airforce and deny airsuperiority of enemy .