Major Changes Ahead on JF-17 Block-3

[IceBreaker]

guessing by your immense knowledge and 10000 flying hrs it must be hard listening to us naive people really.Providing thoughts is the basis of the forum and i am doing that if that is wrong report my earlier posts to the mods.

Providing thoughts is indeed the basis of the forum, but please don't provide baseless and childish thoughts.Such are considered trolling.
Be technical, have a point.

 

[muhammadali233]

Providing thoughts is indeed the basis of the forum, but please don't provide baseless and childish thoughts.Such are considered trolling.
Be technical, have a point.

A twin Engine JFT is not possible.
Why?
The airframe has to be altered.
And when you alter the air frame everything has to be changed, each and every nut and bolt!
Thus the outcome will no longer look like a JFT.
A completely new aircraft will be born.


Very strange.
Pilot Exceeded the structural limits of the plane with a g load ability of 8.5.
What type of software was it.
I've heard most pilots die at 7-8 gees.

kettle calling the pot black?quite technical i see you are, first let me introduce to G's ,pilots don't die at 7-8 g's they suffer from GLOC i.e Gravity Induced Loss of Consciousness,the test pilot perform these at very high altitudes this gives them time to recover if the pull that much high G's.The Flight Control System limits the aircraft from pulling that much high G's
Even if it does it recovers it self

Altering the frame design is not so difficult as it has been practiced many times before
Mi-24A

^this turned into Mi 35

F-16 with F-16XL

F-16 VISTA with TVC engine

F-2 derivative of the F-16 by the Japanese

Hope it proves my point you dont need to change the whole of aircraft to make some changes

 

[Desertfalcon]

F-16 with F-16XL
View attachment 298337

I totally forgot about that delta wing F-16 prototype. I wonder whatever became of that project?

 

[muhammadali233]

I totally forgot about that delta wing F-16 prototype. I wonder whatever became of that project?

Apparently UAE wanted XL but was later denied,it was wonder of an aircraft with 40% more range 27 hardpoints but the idea was scraped in favour of F-15E by USAF

 

[SQ8]

Pilot Exceeded the structural limits of the plane with a g load ability of 8.5.
What type of software was it.
I've heard most pilots die at 7-8 gees.

No pilots die at 7 or 8 gees.

 

[Zain Malik]

Almost what I said in post #286.
This dual engine thing was started by @Zain Malik


Yeah, totally.
Tell that to @Zain Malik


Yeah but you can't weld another engine on a jet.

That Was just my idea brother......Don't be aggressive yaaar......Everyone has right to share his ideas so I do so....

on other threads, it has been discussed to death..that we need a twin engine fighter...but practically no heavy is available to us ..mostly due to money and partially due to political reasons
So if we want to have a twin engine...it is best case scenario that we have a JV with China.....doesn't matter we have to re-design it completely...Actually..we don't have to start from scratch...that was JF-17..but now with the understanding from JF-17...we will be in much better position to design another jet.
It will have following benefits
1. No dependence on others(just like JF-17)
2. the deficiency of long range and heavy pay load aircraft will be removed
3. All the weapon package of JF-17 can be used

Meanwhile we can wait for J31(which also uses al

No body is welding another engine....I am talking about a new design of a double engine jet....JV with China...upto j-11 standards..jet...that can fill our needs.


No doubt, other platforms are more capable...but are they available to us...NO...that's why u need to do something for that...u can't just sit and wait that One day Pak economy wil become sooooo big that we can purchase any weapon....that's not the attitude to tackle a problem.
And also, for stealth..there is no word on ,how the progress is going on with J31...so atleast for 10 years ...forget stealth for PAF...only USA has operational stealth jet right now, China nad Russia are alos in testing phase...and they won't sell J20 or PAKFA to u...F-35 has many issues ...Also do u think stealth will be easy to purchase...we ar not able to buy 4th gen twin engine due to money...how can u expect Pak to buy 5th gen in huge numbers????

Source: Major Changes Ahead on JF-17 Block-3 | Page 20

Completely Agreed with u and may be potential buyers came to us for the sale of twin engine aircraft with AESA......WEll that will look pretty cool....

 

[ghauri05]

ASSLAM O ALEKUM
This will happen. A JV with china for a twin engine very low RCS jet will happen. I don't have any links to prove it here but i can assure it as if you guys believe me now after what I said came truth as I told there will be 50 block II thunders I told there are not gonna be more than 20 only 16 came and you guys were making fun of me saying ( Aj kal bachon ki adat ban gai hy to Spread rumors about Jf-17 manzy ki baat to ye hy k documents main thy 16 in main sy b 4 Thunder mazeeeed 2 months PAC k pas hi khary rhy thy and recently hi diyay gay PAF ko ........so anyways there is gonna be a JV with China for a twin engine low RCS jet but It will take time as It will go through drawing board then funding ka masla e parna hamesha ki trhan phr ja k bnyga long time probably 2025 main ap loog dekhogy ye jahaz ya Jaldi bhi hua to 2020 sy pehly ni hoga phr b But i can guarantee there is something like this on the drawing board ..... now you believe me or not its up to you guys as .!!! Take care .
ALLAH HAFIZ

I hope it's true..as this is the only feasible solution for PAF t have heavies,all other options are un reliable or have no chance

 

[araz]

I hope it's true..as this is the only feasible solution for PAF t have heavies,all other options are un reliable or have no chance

In a nutshell arent people describing j31? New fighter twin engined designed by China for use by PAF possible induction 2022-25. A new design would set us back 15yrs by which time it would possibly be obsolete plus cost us 2-3 billion dollars( if not more). If we have that money we ars better of buying off the shelf items.
A

 

[DMP]

I hope it's true..as this is the only feasible solution for PAF t have heavies,all other options are un reliable or have no chance

This is gonna be happening in the future .... I confirmed it yesterday .... 70% work done on the drawing board It will e a twin engine very low RCS jet ...... Hope so they don't use Rd-93 again on it

 

[princefaisal]

Either J-31 or any other twin engine aircraft, main problem will be the non availability of a reliable FADEC engine with 9300+kgf thrust, supercruise & MBTO OF 4000+ hours.

 

[The Eagle]

This is gonna be happening in the future .... I confirmed it yesterday .... 70% work done on the drawing board It will e a twin engine very low RCS jet ...... Hope so they don't use Rd-93 again on it

Indicates more about possibility of FC-31 and as per random sources, Pakistan is interested in it as well by participating in the program from the ground level. Drawing board work is already done.

Rightly said that no other program in between this gap could fit and may linger-on or delay the process of twin engine, low observable AC. FC-31 fits the bill here IMO.

@araz

 

[DMP]

Indicates more about possibility of FC-31 and as per random sources, Pakistan is interested in it as well by participating in the program from the ground level. Drawing board work is already done.

Rightly said that no other program in between this gap could fit and may linger-on or delay the process of twin engine, low observable AC. FC-31 fits the bill here IMO.

@araz

Initially I also thought about it. But It's not what we are thinking ..... I'll try to get more info on this thing.!!!!

 

[ghauri05]

In a nutshell arent people describing j31? New fighter twin engined designed by China for use by PAF possible induction 2022-25. A new design would set us back 15yrs by which time it would possibly be obsolete plus cost us 2-3 billion dollars( if not more). If we have that money we ars better of buying off the shelf items.
A

i have already told the problems faced by Pak.....getting off the shelf twin engine jet...in my earlier post..for you i clearly describe them once again
1.Euorpean fighters are too expensive...and we don't have the money(Also Rafael is gone with india...so only option left is euoro fighter from europe)
2. USA is not interested in selling f-15s to us..and also those will be sanctions prone
3.Su-35 ...we have not developed so strong relations eith Russia that they provide us...even they are willing to...first problem money and seccond indin influence
4. China's J-series...not allowed for export by Russians

So do u want to PAF....keep waiting for a day when our economy miraculously becomes stronger....
As far as J31 is concerned ...no solid progress is being seen...after initial pprototypes ..no one has heard a word about them...with authentic source...so it isn't coming before 2025 or it's highly possible that it might delay upto 2030
and still even we will get j31..the stealth element...but we will inherit the same problem with it...for which we are considering the engine of twin engine..as it's a smaller plane as compared to it's counter parts...it's about size of F35 but with twin engine....so there might be issue for no. of weapons that can be stored internally

Considering all the problems, i have mentioned above....and seeing no practical solution at the hands of PAF..it's logical that we go for a JV of twin engine...atleast upto J-11 standars

If u have a practical solution in your mind..plz enlighten me....!!!

 

[araz]

i have already told the problems faced by Pak.....getting off the shelf twin engine jet...in my earlier post..for you i clearly describe them once again
1.Euorpean fighters are too expensive...and we don't have the money(Also Rafael is gone with india...so only option left is euoro fighter from europe)
2. USA is not interested in selling f-15s to us..and also those will be sanctions prone
3.Su-35 ...we have not developed so strong relations eith Russia that they provide us...even they are willing to...first problem money and seccond indin influence
4. China's J-series...not allowed for export by Russians

So do u want to PAF....keep waiting for a day when our economy miraculously becomes stronger....
As far as J31 is concerned ...no solid progress is being seen...after initial pprototypes ..no one has heard a word about them...with authentic source...so it isn't coming before 2025 or it's highly possible that it might delay upto 2030
and still even we will get j31..the stealth element...but we will inherit the same problem with it...for which we are considering the engine of twin engine..as it's a smaller plane as compared to it's counter parts...it's about size of F35 but with twin engine....so there might be issue for no. of weapons that can be stored internally

Considering all the problems, i have mentioned above....and seeing no practical solution at the hands of PAF..it's logical that we go for a JV of twin engine...atleast upto J-11 standars

If u have a practical solution in your mind..plz enlighten me....!!!

I read your post carefully the first time so a repeat description was perhaps not necessary. However, a couple of points in relation to your post.
Development of an off the shelf fighter with the Chinese will set you back at least 15 years in development(and that is a very optimistic estimate). Designing and testing plus modalities of who manufactures what and at what cost take time and then testing. As technology becomes more complicated so does the need for more testing AND MONEY. Logical estimate possibly two partners 2 billion dollars in development EACH. Problems that you will encounter:
A) why would China become a partner when it has programmes of its own. It will want to sell you its own solutions. Turkey is expensive and development with an unproven partner would be difficult as well as costly due to high costs of Turkish equipment.
B)If you are looking at 2 billion dollars in development costs then buy the product off the shelf. Contrary to your assertions Russia is in dire straits and 2-3 billion may well get you 2 squadrons of SU35 s with Chinese AESA if you so desire. This will be more than enough for your needs .
C) what is the requirement. You cant develop a new system for a requirement of 2 squadrons. Who else is going to buy it?Without a higher need per unit cost would become unbearable.
D) ou are at a critical moment in the time between generations of fighters . 4++ generation may remain relevant for another ten years but not after. You will need a fifth generation fighter. I will aslos humbly point out that a stealth fighter is not only a stealth fighter but in case of need can use its external hardpoints to hang some gifts for our friends..While not ideal we do not have the luxury of having multiple designated platofrms for specific purposes and need swing role/multirole ones to save costs.
So this is the reason why I wrote the post that I did. You need to keep all these aspects in mind when suggesting a change/ development in platforms.
regards
A

Initially I also thought about it. But It's not what we are thinking ..... I'll try to get more info on this thing.!!!!

Please dont !!! It is important that information about newer platofrms ids kept secret till government decides to reveal it. There have been a few "revelations on the board" which has caused a lot of agro. So please dont reveal anything that does not need to be revealed.
Regards

Indicates more about possibility of FC-31 and as per random sources, Pakistan is interested in it as well by participating in the program from the ground level. Drawing board work is already done.

Rightly said that no other program in between this gap could fit and may linger-on or delay the process of twin engine, low observable AC. FC-31 fits the bill here IMO.

@araz

Absolutely. I think PAF wants the Chinese to finish FC31 first and buy it off the shelf from them rather than pay the development costs.Cpontrary to your post I think we have virtually no experience to share with the Chinese in fifth generation technology so our contributions if any would be meagre and not worht joining in a partnership and pay the costs.
A

 

[The Eagle]

Absolutely. I think PAF wants the Chinese to finish FC31 first and buy it off the shelf from them rather than pay the development costs.Cpontrary to your post I think we have virtually no experience to share with the Chinese in fifth generation technology so our contributions if any would be meagre and not worht joining in a partnership and pay the costs.
A

Agreed Sir, our participation would be with respect of learning the tech and helping them to build as per our requirement while keeping in view the experience gained from JFT program and sooner TOT as well. Rest about paying the development costs, both parties knows the facts clearly and we cannot redirect our limited funds towards such program however after an appreciated growth in economy, PAF may participate in respect of cost sharing in future programs.

Initially I also thought about it. But It's not what we are thinking ..... I'll try to get more info on this thing.!!!

Disclosing the information without consent of the owner is not feasible nor in favour of country alone so I would better suggest that avoid any attempt compromising the secrecy as well as sharing the prohibited info along with creating any kind of conspiracy though information allowed of permitted to share could be helpful at this forum but i repeat again, sometimes things are better kept secret till the suited time and till then, you can share your observations as per current info of developments available to public domain.