LUMS - becoming a leftist militant breeding ground ?

[airmarshal]

This time the state must show courage and take these trouble makers to task. Pakistan has been very soft against this type of people in the past.

 

[Khanate]

LUMS is mostly targeted by the conservatives because it's probably one of the few educational institutes in the country alongwith IBA, which does not limit critical thinking. If you go to LUMS, you'll find students with all the religious and political backgrounds being open about their views.

People who target LUMS are the same ones who are supporters of curbs on freedom in our country.

The nature of critique in LUMS is limited by default if only certain voices are promoted to air their views. I am not picking a side here, I am simply stating a fact.

Technically, I am not against the real Marxists as they claim to be against imperialism. However, Pakistani Marxists have always worked for the foreign powers to undermine Pakistani interests. During the cold war, they used to be Indo-Soviet stooges. They actively worked against the Army during 1971 war with Indian help. During Afghan war, they worked as local spies for the Soviets.
These days these lefties are working for foreign NGOs and Indians while promoting atheism in order to undermine the Islamic values in our society.

This is the unfortunate truth that many are unwilling, or incapable, of acknowledging.

Firstly, there is no way to determine whether extrajudicial killings took place. These are mere allegations. Besides, this smear campaign is only waged against the Pak army at the behest of Indian and Afghan stooges. There is no denying that some innocent people got killed during the long war in the tribal areas. This cannot be termed as systematic killing, but rather unfortunate and unintended casualties. The victims should be fully compensated by the Pakistani state.

Secondly, this is exactly the reason why Imran Khan opposed the war in the FATA region which would inevitably lead to innocent deaths. The irony is that these academics and students belonging to LUMS also opposed Imran Khan and used to call him Taliban Khan. These so-called intellectuals don't have a fixed position on anything. They are just opportunists who don't miss an opportunity to bash Pakistan and the armed forces. The duplicity is clear in this example.

Talking about extrajudicial killings, do you know how many Pashtun were brutally massacred in Afghanistan at the hands of the US/NATO forces and Afghans i.e. Northern Alliance? This has been extremely well documented by various human rights organizations. Why won't LUMS students hold protests against US, NATO and Afghan extrajudicial killings? Why doesn't PTM question these extrajudicial killings which have been confirmed by human rights organizations? Let me answer this question for you. It is because these mouthpieces are on their payroll. Their only job is to highlight lies against the Pak armed forces.

Now let me come back to your other remark regarding student demands. Students looking to improve university administration and accommodation, unions demanding legality are legitimate demands and no one is opposing these. The concerned authorities should pay heed.

People demanding an end to so-called extrajudicial kidnappings and detention are mostly PTM members or journos on foreign payroll. Like I said, these groups are only interested in agitation against the state. They hold mass rallies to disrupt public life and undermine safety. They have already killed scores of innocent people. Their only goal is to disrupt society and sow ethnic division. The state won't let this happen. Hence the detention of Manzoor Pashteen.

If PTM was truly sincere in demanding justice they would approach Imran Khan instead of rioting on streets. There is no bigger pacifist in Pakistan today than Imran Khan. After all, Imran Khan was himself opposed to the armed forces going into the tribal areas to fight US war on terror.

The reason why the US is hush hush or even tacitly approving PTM is because Pakistan used to make the same allegations against US, NATO and Afghan forces for ignoring the plight of majority Pashtun community in Afghanistan. The US deep state believes that this is some sort of payback, but it in reality it is not. It is merely a smear campaign that has already failed. PTM is a dead horse.

Pakistan is dismantling PTM in front of the whole world. Let see if anyone can stop us from taking apart this proxy group.

Those who have followed PTM over the years are aware that PTM's leadership has a documented record of using fake pictures and promoting wild conspiracy theories. Manzoor himself insinuated that Pakistan army was behind APS. There were wild claims of foul play in Arman Loni's death and Farishta rape case. This is all besides the attack on army posts and the ensuing tragedy. All of that is there.

The question you need to answer is what is the counter narrative?

There is none.

The state is playing a waiting game which leaves a clear vaccum, allowing PTM to claim anything, however farcical, as truth and none contests it.

IMO, some control over the press is necessary. With the press there is a considerable amount of vested interest (money) in the mix, unlike with the academia. Also, the student/academic circles still, somewhat, exist within the regular populous but the press is a definite outside influencer. Couple these reasons and we understand what was going on at the first half of the 2010s. GEO just went all out.

Pakistani media is simply doing what it has been paid to do.

 

[R Wing]

Maybe because our agencies respect freedom of expression and freedom of speech unlike the corrupt whose privilege is threatened? -"The strangest thing is that it only takes a mildly intelligent person to intellectually dismantle most of their beliefs as hypocritical or false --- but our agencies usually don't operate with that kind of sophistication, unfortunately."

I quote Fred Hoyle who said: " if you don't go against the crowd you are not going to have success"

Our agencies do respect freedom of expression more than their critics would have you believe --- but that is not the reason that they haven't been able to spin up an effective counter narrative (unfortunately, it has more to do with competence of these types of psy ops / influence ops.)

 

[krash]

The nature of critique in LUMS is limited by default if only certain voices are promoted to air their views. I am not picking a side here, I am simply stating a fact.

LUMS the university does not promote anything. These talks and seminars are arranged by student bodies/societies. As long as they are not illegal, the university does nothing about it, as it shouldn't because it can't. Even with that Kirmani proff all anyone posts are her tweets. Apparently they want the university to control her twitter account, or maybe fire her for her political views. What do people expect from professors who are hired to teach subjects in Socialism and Feminism?

BTW, people from all walks of life, not just political groups, are invited to LUMS regularly to present there talks. Chomsky, Imran Khan, Ali Azmat, Schlumberger, Inzimam-ul-Haq, foreign vloggers, fashion designers, movie directors, you name it. DG ISPR is actually the most frequent visitor.

Our agencies do respect freedom of expression more than their critics would have you believe --- but that is not the reason that they haven't been able to spin up an effective counter narrative (unfortunately, it has more to do with competence of these types of psy ops / influence ops.)

Thankfully, they've wisened up to it in recent times, as the people had wisened up. Long gone are Zia's times of brute force and censorship.

They do still mess up though. The missing persons case is a good example. You have a person of interest you need picked up, by all means, just declare it. Fabricate charges if you need to. Preempt the propaganda, don't hand it to them on a platter.

 

[El Sidd]

Interestingly when terrorism was peaking, intellectuals from this institute were going around identifying terrorism with Muslim dress code and practice of going to the church.

The institute is at the forefront of imposing Indian intellectual understanding of democracy.

 

[krash]

Interestingly when terrorism was peaking, intellectuals from this institute were going around identifying terrorism with Muslim dress code and practice of going to the church.

Huh? What? During those very times LUMS had a mini religious revolution of sorts going on under "Sheikh Kamaludin". A cult movement in reality. You had an army of Turban wearing, toga and burqa sporting 'elitists' all over campus. Also, throughout those times LUMS' Deans were molvis. First Arif Zamman, who didn't have a TV in his house and rode on a bicycle and then Tariq Jadoon. How do you people come up with this nonsense?

When Terrorism was at its peak all of you first refused to believe that it was there because "Muslim brothers yeah"? Then you all reacted against the Pushtoons and then you reacted against the Mullahs. But then hey, you read that one comment on facebook of a freshman at LUMS, you know what's up.

The institute is at the forefront of imposing Indian intellectual understanding of democracy.

.......Could you maybe explain what this "Indian intellectual understanding of democracy" is? I'll then ask you how this institute is imposing it.

The fact that one of the community organisations run by LUMS alumni is funded by the Lakshmi Mital foundation says it all in my book! Call me narrow minded!

Could you please provide some details of this organisation and the funding it has received.

 

[El Sidd]

Huh? What? During those very times LUMS had a mini religious revolution of sorts going on under "Sheikh Kamaludin". A cult movement in reality. You had an army of Turban wearing, toga and burqa sporting 'elitists' all over campus. Also, throughout those times LUMS' Deans were molvis. First Arif Zamman, who didn't have a TV in his house and rode on a bicycle and then Tariq Jadoon. How do you people come up with this nonsense?

When Terrorism was at its peak all of you first refused to believe that it was there because "Muslim brothers yeah"? Then you all reacted against the Pushtoons and then you reacted against the Mullahs. But then hey, you read that one comment on facebook of a freshman at LUMS, you know what's up.

So this institute has a history of promoting fascism in the country under pretense of freedom of expression. Understandable, everyone has equal rights.

.......Could you maybe explain what this "Indian intellectual understanding of democracy" is? I'll then ask you how this institute is imposing it.

Yes. The ideology that Pakistan can only last from 1947 to 1958 before uniting under deen i ilahi vision of secularism with India.

 

[krash]

So this institute has a history of promoting fascism in the country under pretense of freedom of expression.

Hah! Another buzz word. Here are a couple more, paradox and disingenuous. So which was it? Was it that these people were "identifying terrorism with Muslim dress code" or were they allowing religious fascism? And religious fascism? Where did fascism come into this? Please explain.

And yes, you have the freedom to express your ideas, whatever they may be. Restricting them is in fact fascism. Unless you are promoting violence or any other illegal matter, of course.

Understandable, everyone has equal rights.

They do indeed. I mean according to yourself, while these people at LUMS were "identifying terrorism with Muslim dress code" they were also allowing Islamic religious fascism. How much more equal can you get?

Yes. The ideology that Pakistan can only last from 1947 to 1958 before uniting under deen i ilahi vision of secularism with India.

How is that an "understanding of democracy"? What does that have to do with democracy or its concept? And LUMS is imposing it by/with/through?

Makes no sense.

 

[El Sidd]

Hah! Another buzz word. Here are a couple more, paradox and disingenuous. So which was it? Was it that these people were "identifying terrorism with Muslim dress code" or were they allowing religious fascism? And religious fascism? Where did fascism come into this? Please explain.

And yes, you have the freedom to express your ideas, whatever they may be. Restricting them is in fact fascism. Unless you are promoting violence or any other illegal matter, of course.

Both. They play both side of the fence as to cover all the bases necessary. The elitist radicalise the poor while creating political grounds for eradicating their own creations as terrorists.

They do indeed. I mean according to yourself, while these people at LUMS were "identifying terrorism with Muslim dress code" they were also allowing Islamic religious fascism. How much more equal can you get?

Meanwhile rest of the country were suffering the consequences of their lab experiment.

How is that an "understanding of democracy"? What does that have to do with democracy or its concept? And LUMS is promoting it by/with/through?

Makes no sense.

Ofcourse it does not make sense.

LUMs is the embodiment of elitism in the country and fascists who get paid to mask the Indian Iranian hegemony in Pakistan.

 

[jamahir]

Interestingly when terrorism was peaking, intellectuals from this institute were going around identifying terrorism with Muslim dress code and practice of going to the church.

What is "Muslim dress code" ?

The institute is at the forefront of imposing Indian intellectual understanding of democracy.

LOL, I have lived in India all my life and except for the almost-takeover of Pakistan's governance by Faiz Ahmed Faiz and his Communist and Socialist comrades in 1951 ( which their opponents called as "Rawalpindi Conspiracy" ) and then the 1980s when Tableeghi dictator Zia-ul-Haq could have been overthrown by Communists and Socialists ( but be saved from execution and brought back to power by Indian PM Rajiv Gandhi ) and then the time of the generally progressive Musharraf, I say with certainty that Pakistani establishment has been almost the same as the Indian establishment in governance of Pakistan via maintaining a Capitalist society internally and NATO-aligned foreign policy externally and NATO-aligned elements internally ( the mullahs ).

First Arif Zamman, who didn't have a TV in his house and rode on a bicycle

He should have traveled only a camel. A bicycle is modern haraam method.

 

[-=virus=-]

mashallah, you guys got a a JNU of your own.. sahi hai !

 

[_NOBODY_]

LUMS has both leftists and neoliberals, in case you didn't know both of these are polar opposites of each other. Since leftists shout a lot and neoliberals stay quiet, people assume that the institute is simply a leftist breeding ground which is false.

 

[VCheng]

LUMS has both leftists and neoliberals, in case you didn't know both of these are polar opposites of each other. Since leftists shout a lot and neoliberals stay quiet, people assume that the institute is simply a leftist breeding ground which is false.

And both are capable of independent thinking, which is anathema to a mandatorily conformist society.

 

[Paitoo]

mashallah, you guys got a a JNU of your own.. sahi hai !

Apparently LUMS produces many fine and employable grads, which is hardly something that can be said for our JNU grads who seem to be studying there only to occupy a room in a prime area of Delhi.

LUMS has both leftists and neoliberals, in case you didn't know both of these are polar opposites of each other. Since leftists shout a lot and neoliberals stay quiet, people assume that the institute is simply a leftist breeding ground which is false.

Isn't LUMS a management institute? How is that people aspiring for life in the capitalist corporate world entertain leftist thoughts? Maybe it's just wokeism-tokenism?

 

[Mentee]

What is "Muslim dress code" ?

Choori dar tight pajamas complimented by an enlarged version of Jewish/Christian skull cap. And then there's this waste of a fabric called traditional bandana worn usually over shoulders . Man how do you breathe wearing all this attire in the subcontinental heat ?