Losing My Religion?

[Neptune]

Well the title is right. And a question to be shoot through.

well actually, since my academy years till the previous month. I was an atheist. But before that i was always and still asking questions to myself about is there a God really? Today I'm the guy who has learned Quran. But especially lately this week, i was kind of a Einstein. yes, today I do believe that there's God but I am not sure about Islam, like;

If God exists, it's claimed that Islam is the true religion, then why it's the one that always takes the hardest way at anything, at least most of them?

I know the reason of fasting and ramazan but it's not healthy for we humans other than loosing weight. It says us to encourage little kids to fast. But especially for them; it's harmful. Why stopping eating and become hungry to feel others instead of buying a meal for a poor person to make him/her feel better and healthy.

Why Arabic why? Every social, family laws of Islam is based at Arabic culture and arabic nationalism. Honestly I don't wanna learn sth religious with Arabic. Why would I learn Arabic to find out my religion?

If our fate's already written, why God wants to examine it's people. Why there is a need for "a Quiz" as every soul's fate is written?

I read some parts. It says to kill those who reject Islam. What's goin on there. Is this comin from the "religion of peace".

I've never seen a race/country who accepted Islam without having a war with the Arabic, or a bloody civil war under the name of "revolution". EX: I'm Circassian, we were christian (ortodox) actually., when the arabs came to caucasus to spread their view, we've resisted for dozens of years. then We've been broken up. And accepted Islam. Ok.

If Islamic rules are the best (it has to be if it's the true religion). Why all of the muslim nations we know are either in a civil war or there's a dictatorship or people uprise or HDI and GDP is very very low?

I get that; cigarettes and alcohol (count alcohol out IMO) are forbidden because they are harmful. But why there's a restrict for sexual relationship. At least it starts to become a human need even at the middle of the teenage period according to researchs.

Anyways, for my logic, Of course there's a God. But Islam? I'm not sure about it ???

What do you say? I'd like to hear opinions from muslim/jewish/christian/hindu/atheist members.

(I was gonna open that thread in somewhere else. But then either there'd be a religion war or people trying to act like clerics/saints, i do want to hear some serious facts, assistance, replies with logic)

 

[Kompromat]

Well the title is right. And a question to be shoot through.

well actually, since my academy years till the previous month. I was an atheist. But before that i was always and still asking questions to myself about is there a God really?

* What is atheism?, im yet to come across one line description.
* Asking questions is natural, every one does.
* Does God exist? - No - until you understand what "God" means.

Today I'm the guy who has learned Quran.

Read or Learned? - Quran is not a novel. Its like studying, a Law course in 6 months doesn't make you a lawyer. Whats needed is not "study" but "knowledge" [ilm]. Studying is easy, getting knowledge is not. For some people Knowledge is a consequence of study and application. Have you tried it ?

But especially lately this week, i was kind of a Einstein.

Correction: Einstein was not an atheist.

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.

Albert Einstein

Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.

Albert Einstein

The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.

Albert Einstein

yes, today I do believe that there's God

What is God in your opinion?....a being, Spirit, Energy, Intelligence, or simple absence/non existence?

but I am not sure about Islam, like;

It is perfectly fine to be unsure.

If God exists, it's claimed that Islam is the true religion, then why it's the one that always takes the hardest way at anything, at least most of them?

The easy way to Allah is not the right way-perhaps? - Or perhaps its not about being easy but about being thorough?

I know the reason of fasting and ramazan

Please describe what do you think is the reason for fasting?

but it's not healthy for we humans other than loosing weight.

How did you reach the conclusion, that it is unhealthy?

"As the Ramadan fast only extends from dawn until dusk, there is ample opportunity to replenish energy stores at pre-dawn and dusk meals. This provides a progressive and gentle transition from glucose to fat as the main source of energy, thereby preventing the breakdown of muscle for protein.

Balanced food and fluid intake is important between fasts. The kidney is very efficient at maintaining the body’s water and salts, such as sodium and potassium. However, these can be lost through sweating. To prevent muscle breakdown, meals must contain adequate levels of ‘energy food’, such as carbohydrates and some fat. Hence, a balanced diet with adequate quantities of nutrients, salts and water is vital."

Healthy Fasting in Ramadan: Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology Australia.

Telegraph: Fasting could help fight cancer


What happens to your body when you fast??

It says us to encourage little kids to fast. But especially for them; it's harmful.

Kids are not supposed to fast according to Islamic theology, who told you otherwise?
Rule of the thumb is that a boy or a girl should be encouraged to start fasting when they reach puberty, which is 13-16 years of age.

Some doctors have said that a healthy child can start fasting at 7 years of age without adverse health impacts.

“Fasting at this stage depends on the ability of each child. They should be asked to fast preferably at the beginning of the holy month of Ramadan, so that the child will gradually get used to the fasting habit without complications of fatigue,”

Pediatrician says children can begin fast at age 7

Why stopping eating and become hungry to feel others instead of buying a meal for a poor person to make him/her feel better and healthy.

Humility,selflessness,control,piety,sacrifice - ??? - Idea of Fasting is not about quitting to eat or drink but to become a model human,which is learning and as per Islam "Learn from the cradle to the grave." - its a process that doesn't end. Allah doesn't care if you eat or you don't, its not the purpose, the purpose is to make Muslims, model human beings, so that they represent the best of Allah's creation, in behavior both individual and communal.

Why Arabic why?

Because as per Islamic theology, Prophets [Teachers] were raised amongst people who had corrupted beyond fix. Arab society,known as the age of Jahiliya represented just that. ?

Every social, family laws of Islam is based at Arabic culture and arabic nationalism.

If you are talking about Pre Islamic Arabic Culture than its incorrect as Islam, changed their culture completely. From idol worshipping to monotheism, from taking the women as a "curse" to the "blessing of Allah" & fundamental women rights. -

We must learn to differentiate between "culture" and "Religious theology". Arab culture did not eliminate other cultures, as cultures are inherently a process of ongoing social evolution.

Honestly I don't wanna learn sth religious with Arabic.

Did anyone force you to?

Why would I learn Arabic to find out my religion?

That is out of necessity more than out of God's commands. Quran and Hadi'th were written in Arabic because of the geographic location it was revealed in. I would like to see where Allah told you to abandon your language because "Arabic is superior".?

If our fate's already written, why God wants to examine it's people.

Fate is NOT already written per say. Allah gave us "free will" and "Moral judgement" - a package that came with being human. Allah has given us fate which cannot change i-e the country you were born in, the language, the history, the family,the body, the gender etc. Those are "fate" ... but Allah will judge us upon our "actions" not our "pre determined fate". He will judge us because we are not animals, we are free and intelligent, we will be judged on our "intent" and the "actions" that we take as the consequence of that "intent".

Why there is a need for "a Quiz" as every soul's fate is written?

In other words, our fate has 2 stages, 1st is the one we cant change and we will not be judged on that. 2nd the one we can change and will be judged on it because we "choose" those actions and their consequences.

I read some parts. It says to kill those who reject Islam. What's goin on there. Is this comin from the "religion of peace".

I will stick my knife through your brain....






If you pose a threat to my family....


Understand? --- how about you put that into context? -Islam gives Muslims the right to self defense, to pick up arms to defend your family,property and country. "Fight in the name of Allah - to those who fight you & do not commit barbarity as Allah does not like Barbarians: Quran"

It would be helpful if you give us the exact details of where you read it etc.

I've never seen a race/country who accepted Islam without having a war with the Arabic, or a bloody civil war under the name of "revolution".

War in itself is an idea.

No race or country has EVER converted to ANY religion by sword or force. Conversion is an idea which took time, in Sub Continent, in Middle east, Indonesia etc it took centuries to convert an entire race or a country to Islam and that was through their free choice. Islam didn't do what the British did to the Aboriginals in America,Canada and Australia. Generals and traders just exposed local populations to Islam. In the case of Sub Continent it was spread by Sufis [Dervesh] over centuries and even today Muslims are a minority.

EX: I'm Circassian, we were christian (ortodox) actually., when the arabs came to caucasus to spread their view, we've resisted for dozens of years. then We've been broken up. And accepted Islam. Ok.

Weren't you expelled by the Russians to the Ottoman Empire? I am yet to find any evidence of a Muslim invasion either Arab or others, in Circassia?

This is how Christianity was implemented on Circassia.

"1333 - In his letter, Pope John XXII (to the king Zichia (Circassia) Verzacht ["Верзахта" in Cyrillic script]), the Rome (Avignon) Pontiff thanks the Governor of Circassians for his assistance in implementing the Christian faith among the Adygs (Circassians)."

If Islamic rules are the best (it has to be if it's the true religion). Why all of the muslim nations we know are either in a civil war or there's a dictatorship or people uprise or HDI and GDP is very very low?

Why were Muslims some of the richest people in the world just a few hundred years ago, with one of the longest standing empires in history? - What you have stated has nothing to do with Religion, but economics and social order. Most Muslim nations are coming out of long periods of colonization and a vast majority of whom are doing absolutely fine.

Does your question apply to the Christians of europe in WW1 & WW2? Just ask yourself?

I get that; cigarettes and alcohol (count alcohol out IMO) are forbidden because they are harmful.

They are forbidden but consuming any of them doesn't make you a non Muslim.

But why there's a restrict for sexual relationship.

There is no "restriction" on sexual relationship in Islam. The restriction is on "premarital/extramarital sex". Again it doesn't make you a non Muslim, if one does have extra marital or pre marital sexual relationships.

At least it starts to become a human need even at the middle of the teenage period according to researchs.

....and Islam allows you to get married in a simple ceremony as soon as you reach puberty, so where is the restriction?

Anyways, for my logic, Of course there's a God. But Islam? I'm not sure about it ???

Its perfectly fine to be unsure.



I appreciate your openness.

I had to reply this long because you are my brother,please read carefully,try to understand what i wrote and write me back with intelligent questions. I usually take great pleasure in asking people questions instead.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Awesome @WebMaster @TaimiKhan @Oscar @Developereo @Argus Panoptes

 

[Marshmallow]

* What is atheism?, im yet to come across one line description.
* Asking questions is natural, every one does.
* Does God exist? - No - until you understand what "God" means.




Read or Learned? - Quran is not a novel. Its like studying, a Law course in 6 months doesn't make you a lawyer. Whats needed is not "study" but "knowledge" [ilm]. Studying is easy, getting knowledge is not. For some people Knowledge is a consequence of study and application. Have you tried it ?



Correction: Einstein was not an atheist.










What is God in your opinion?....a being, Spirit, Energy, Intelligence, or simple absence/non existence?



It is perfectly fine to be unsure.



The easy way to Allah is not the right way-perhaps? - Or perhaps its not about being easy but about being thorough?



Please describe what do you think is the reason for fasting?



How did you reach the conclusion, that it is unhealthy?






Kids are not supposed to fast according to Islamic theology, who told you otherwise?
Rule of the thumb is that a boy or a girl should be encouraged to start fasting when they reach puberty, which is 13-16 years of age.

Some doctors have said that a healthy child can start fasting at 7 years of age without adverse health impacts.





Humility,selflessness,control,piety,sacrifice - ??? - Idea of Fasting is not about quitting to eat or drink but to become a model human,which is learning and as per Islam "Learn from the cradle to the grave." - its a process that doesn't end. Allah doesn't care if you eat or you don't, its not the purpose, the purpose is to make Muslims, model human beings, so that they represent the best of Allah's creation, in behavior both individual and communal.



Because as per Islamic theology, Prophets [Teachers] were raised amongst people who had corrupted beyond fix. Arab society,known as the age of Jahiliya represented just that. ?



If you are talking about Pre Islamic Arabic Culture than its incorrect as Islam, changed their culture completely. From idol worshipping to monotheism, from taking the women as a "curse" to the "blessing of Allah" & fundamental women rights. -

We must learn to differentiate between "culture" and "Religious theology". Arab culture did not eliminate other cultures, as cultures are inherently a process of ongoing social evolution.



Did anyone force you to?



That is out of necessity more than out of God's commands. Quran and Hadi'th were written in Arabic because of the geographic location it was revealed in. I would like to see where Allah told you to abandon your language because "Arabic is superior".?



Fate is not already written per say. Allah gave us "free will" and "Moral judgement" - a package that came with being human. Allah has give us fate which cannot change i-e the country you were born in, the language, the history, the family,the body, the gender etc. Those are "fate" ... but Allah will judge us upon our "actions" not our "pre determined fate". He will judge us because we are not animals, we are free and intelligent, we will be judged on our "intent" and the "actions" that we take as the consequence of that "intent".



In other words, our fate has 2 stages, 1st is the one we cant change and we will not be judged on that. 2nd the one we can change and will be judged on it because we "choose" those actions and their consequences.



I will stick my knife through your brain....



If you pose a threat to my family.


Understand? --- how about you put that into context? -Islam gives Muslims the right to self defense, to pick up arms to defend your family,property and country. "Fight in the name of Allah - to those who fight you & do not commit barbarity as Allah does not like Barbarians: Quran"

It would be helpful if you give us the exact details of where you read it etc.



War in itself is an idea.

No race or country has EVER converted to ANY religion by sword or force. Conversion is an idea which took time, in Sub Continent, in Middle east, Indonesia etc it took centuries to convert an entire race or a country to Islam and that was through their free choice. Islam didn't do what the British did to the Aboriginals in America,Canada and Australia. Generals and traders just exposed local populations to Islam. In the case of Sub Continent it was spread by Sufis [Dervesh] over centuries and even today Muslims are a minority.




Weren't you expelled by the Russians to the Ottoman Empire? I am yet to find any evidence of a Muslim invasion either Arab or others, in Circassia?

This is how Christianity was implemented on Circassia.

"1333 - In his letter, Pope John XXII (to the king Zichia (Circassia) Verzacht ["Верзахта" in Cyrillic script]), the Rome (Avignon) Pontiff thanks the Governor of Circassians for his assistance in implementing the Christian faith among the Adygs (Circassians)."



Why were Muslims some of the richest people in the world just a few hundred years ago, with one of the longest standing empires in history? - What you have stated has nothing to do with Religion, but economics and social order. Most Muslim nations are coming out of long periods of colonization and a vast majority of whom are doing absolutely fine.

Does your question apply to the Christians of europe in WW1 & WW2? Just ask yourself?




They are forbidden but consuming any of them doesn't make you a non Muslim.



There is no "restriction" on sexual relationship in Islam. The restriction is on "premarital/extramarital sex". Again it doesn't make you a non Muslim, if one does have extra marital or pre marital sexual relationships.



....and Islam allows you to get married in a simple ceremony as soon as you reach puberty, so where is the restriction?



Its perfectly fine to be unsure.

I appreciate your openness.

ty aero,it was in detail and to the point,i too understood some of the things i had in mind!!

 

[RAMPAGE]

Yaar Allah needs some language to convey his message so he chose arabic as the language for quran , hebrew for bible and torah . now u see that if there is a non-american fan of Clint Eastwood and loves him so he dress like him , acts like him even when western culture is not his.he does that because he loves his movies . similarly, we muslims deeply love Muhammad S.A more than anything else , so we like to dress like him, act like him , we love his language and his culture because we love him . u ask why do i have to learn arabic ? because your whole religion is in arabic , quran is in arabic , hadith is in arabic . in order to truly understand a book u have to understand its language and belive me the true joy of quran comes when u can understand it while reciting it.


did the people of madinah accepted islam becuz of any war or pressure ?????? NO ..... I DONT KNOW ABOUT OTHER RACES BUT we , the indian muslims surely didnt accept islam because of some war but because we were fed up of the hindu's shudar ,barhaman , khatri system.

ur question about why allah has to test us to pas his judgement when he already knows what we are??? ............. what i understand is that a good parent gives his child a gift when he sees that his child has earned it . so he tests him, gives him some chores to do to see if the child obeys him. he connot just say that i wont give u an i pod because i know that in future u would disobey me . hope that my answers make some sense !!!!!!

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/253252-naswarville-691.html#ixzz2Zw9s7LLw

 

[Jango]

Aeronaut answered all the questions in a great manner, but I'll want to add something regarding the fasting aspect.

Allah does not want you to stay hungry and thirsty, He gets NOTHING out of it. The point of fasting isn't to stay hungry for the best part of a day and sleep, it is to practice patience.

When you fast, you practice patience and tolerance, you resist the urge to eat food. You tolerate your hunger. Slowly, your tolerance envelops other things in your life, you will start becoming less angry, you will become indifferent to abuses, you will become more patient and tolerant not only regarding intake of food but regarding many other things in your life.

Fasting teaches you to resist urges...the point of fasting isn't to remain hungry.

Just yesterday, I was watching some scholar on TV and he was asked exactly this question. The scholar replied with a hadees (I don't remember the exact wording but here is the gist of it), Prophet PBUH told the person that Allah gets no benefit if you keep hungry, if you only keep hungry and do not practice patience in other fields of life or pray, then your fast is of no consequence.

Another Hadith:

It is the month of patience, and the reward of patience is Heaven. It is the month of charity, and a month in which a believer's sustenance is increased.

 

[A1Kaid]

Incorrect spelling, title should be "Losing My Religion". Please update the title.

 

[Kompromat]

ty aero,it was in detail and to the point,i too understood some of the things i had in mind!!

Asking questions is the first stage to learning and learning [Iqra] is the first stage of Islam. Those Muslims who don't question their own beliefs are not true Muslims, they are parrots. Prophet Ibrahim, rejected a number of faiths over a long period of time, while adopting different religions and questioning them, before getting the revelation himself,even then he questioned Allah. Asking questions and being unsure is not wrong it is right. The wrong are the parrots who can be spoon fed and manipulated.

@nuclearpak @Neptune @Hyperion

Any of you have read the work of the Swiss Scholar, Tariq Ramadan?

 

[Jango]

@nuclearpak @Neptune @Hyperion

Any of you have read the work of Tariq Ramadan?

No I haven't.

 

[Kompromat]

No I haven't.

He has done some great work in Islamic theology. He is Swiss & very thorough. He teaches Islamic theology at Oxford University.

Tariq Ramadan

 

[doremon]

Well the title is right. And a question to be shoot through.

well actually, since my academy years till the previous month. I was an atheist. But before that i was always and still asking questions to myself about is there a God really? Today I'm the guy who has learned Quran. But especially lately this week, i was kind of a Einstein. yes, today I do believe that there's God but I am not sure about Islam, like;

If God exists, it's claimed that Islam is the true religion, then why it's the one that always takes the hardest way at anything, at least most of them?

I know the reason of fasting and ramazan but it's not healthy for we humans other than loosing weight. It says us to encourage little kids to fast. But especially for them; it's harmful. Why stopping eating and become hungry to feel others instead of buying a meal for a poor person to make him/her feel better and healthy.

Why Arabic why? Every social, family laws of Islam is based at Arabic culture and arabic nationalism. Honestly I don't wanna learn sth religious with Arabic. Why would I learn Arabic to find out my religion?

If our fate's already written, why God wants to examine it's people. Why there is a need for "a Quiz" as every soul's fate is written?

I read some parts. It says to kill those who reject Islam. What's goin on there. Is this comin from the "religion of peace".

I've never seen a race/country who accepted Islam without having a war with the Arabic, or a bloody civil war under the name of "revolution". EX: I'm Circassian, we were christian (ortodox) actually., when the arabs came to caucasus to spread their view, we've resisted for dozens of years. then We've been broken up. And accepted Islam. Ok.

If Islamic rules are the best (it has to be if it's the true religion). Why all of the muslim nations we know are either in a civil war or there's a dictatorship or people uprise or HDI and GDP is very very low?

I get that; cigarettes and alcohol (count alcohol out IMO) are forbidden because they are harmful. But why there's a restrict for sexual relationship. At least it starts to become a human need even at the middle of the teenage period according to researchs.

Anyways, for my logic, Of course there's a God. But Islam? I'm not sure about it ???

What do you say? I'd like to hear opinions from muslim/jewish/christian/hindu/atheist members.

(I was gonna open that thread in somewhere else. But then either there'd be a religion war or people trying to act like clerics/saints, i do want to hear some serious facts, assistance, replies with logic)

iam a christian but yes every thing u said was correct but i do feel the same about my religion too,frankly speaking too much science is not good and too much religion is not good either because when u look at both science books and religious book u tend find more questions than answers. too me religion is both good and bad ,look at the history so many lives lost in name of god,answer is i do believe there is some supreme energy out there but iam bit sceptical about teaching of islam and other religions so its better to accept there is god but doubt wether the religions on earth is true ...

 

[Kompromat]

Why should i fast??

@nuclearpak @Armstrong @Neptune

 

[SarthakGanguly]

@Neptune - I must appreciate your honest and open nature. The reply by @Aeronaut is also nice.
However I have a few observations if I may.

1. Fasting - Muslims don't actually do full day fasting in Ramadan. They break it every day by iftaar. Fasting is not entirely harmful for people. Indeed there is upvas in Dharmic religions too. But imposing it on everyone is unfair in my opinion.

2. "Islam gives Muslims the right to self defense" - Can you please tell why the Persian empire was invaded, or Spain(Andalus). Those were not simple imperialistic wars. They were done in the name of Islam. Even the 'invitation' to Islam was given to the Persian emperor. I personally don't think that it is self defence. Another thing is that the entire world belongs to Allah according to the Quran. So theoretically a group can try to impose its will on non Muslim nations by that logic. Somehow does not sound very convincing - sorry.

3. "No race or country has EVER converted to ANY religion by sword or force" - No sir. Let me just give you the example of Spain. When the Ummayyids went there it became majority Muslim. During Reconquista the Christians again converted the people.

4. "even today Muslims are a minority." - In the sub-continent the Muslims are not a minority. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh are majority Muslim. These areas remained under Islamic rule for the maximum periods of time(in contrast to say - Maharastra).

5. "from taking the women as a "curse"" - True. Arabic society was(is?) cruel to women. Islamic did initially improve their status. But in contrast to other cultures can you say that was good enough? Another important distinction is that other cultures have evolved over time and disgusting practices like witch burning and sati have been abolished. People condemn it unanimously. Unfortunately acts like stoning, honor killing(true - this one has more to do with pre-Islamic times), public lashes are all too common. From clothing to sexuality to inheritance - Muslim women have lesser rights. What is worse - only few people condemn it.

6. "The restriction is on "premarital/extramarital sex". Again it doesn't make you a non Muslim" - Sorry sir but that is haram. A big sin at that! Though I don't wish to encourage adultery but the punishments recommended in the Shariah is, well, you know...
Same goes for alcohol and swine meat/blood.

7. "Islam allows you to get married in a simple ceremony as soon as you reach puberty" - the reason Iran(for example) allows marriage at the age of 9! Tell me sir, will you be willing to give off your daughter at that young age?

8. "Its perfectly fine to be unsure"
"I appreciate your openness." - I appreciate yours too.

And wish you a healthy Ramadan.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/seniors-cafe/266587-loosing-my-religion.html#ixzz2ZwJJszLz


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/seniors-cafe/266587-loosing-my-religion.html#ixzz2ZwIw238z


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/seniors-cafe/266587-loosing-my-religion.html#ixzz2ZwGs5J5g


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/seniors-cafe/266587-loosing-my-religion.html#ixzz2ZwG69Fc4

* What is atheism?, im yet to come across one line description.
* Asking questions is natural, every one does.
* Does God exist? - No - until you understand what "God" means.




Read or Learned? - Quran is not a novel. Its like studying, a Law course in 6 months doesn't make you a lawyer. Whats needed is not "study" but "knowledge" [ilm]. Studying is easy, getting knowledge is not. For some people Knowledge is a consequence of study and application. Have you tried it ?



Correction: Einstein was not an atheist.










What is God in your opinion?....a being, Spirit, Energy, Intelligence, or simple absence/non existence?



It is perfectly fine to be unsure.



The easy way to Allah is not the right way-perhaps? - Or perhaps its not about being easy but about being thorough?



Please describe what do you think is the reason for fasting?



How did you reach the conclusion, that it is unhealthy?



Telegraph: Fasting could help fight cancer


What happens to your body when you fast??

Kids are not supposed to fast according to Islamic theology, who told you otherwise?
Rule of the thumb is that a boy or a girl should be encouraged to start fasting when they reach puberty, which is 13-16 years of age.

Some doctors have said that a healthy child can start fasting at 7 years of age without adverse health impacts.





Humility,selflessness,control,piety,sacrifice - ??? - Idea of Fasting is not about quitting to eat or drink but to become a model human,which is learning and as per Islam "Learn from the cradle to the grave." - its a process that doesn't end. Allah doesn't care if you eat or you don't, its not the purpose, the purpose is to make Muslims, model human beings, so that they represent the best of Allah's creation, in behavior both individual and communal.



Because as per Islamic theology, Prophets [Teachers] were raised amongst people who had corrupted beyond fix. Arab society,known as the age of Jahiliya represented just that. ?



If you are talking about Pre Islamic Arabic Culture than its incorrect as Islam, changed their culture completely. From idol worshipping to monotheism, from taking the women as a "curse" to the "blessing of Allah" & fundamental women rights. -

We must learn to differentiate between "culture" and "Religious theology". Arab culture did not eliminate other cultures, as cultures are inherently a process of ongoing social evolution.



Did anyone force you to?



That is out of necessity more than out of God's commands. Quran and Hadi'th were written in Arabic because of the geographic location it was revealed in. I would like to see where Allah told you to abandon your language because "Arabic is superior".?



Fate is NOT already written per say. Allah gave us "free will" and "Moral judgement" - a package that came with being human. Allah has given us fate which cannot change i-e the country you were born in, the language, the history, the family,the body, the gender etc. Those are "fate" ... but Allah will judge us upon our "actions" not our "pre determined fate". He will judge us because we are not animals, we are free and intelligent, we will be judged on our "intent" and the "actions" that we take as the consequence of that "intent".



In other words, our fate has 2 stages, 1st is the one we cant change and we will not be judged on that. 2nd the one we can change and will be judged on it because we "choose" those actions and their consequences.




I will stick my knife through your brain....






If you pose a threat to my family....


Understand? --- how about you put that into context? -Islam gives Muslims the right to self defense, to pick up arms to defend your family,property and country. "Fight in the name of Allah - to those who fight you & do not commit barbarity as Allah does not like Barbarians: Quran"

It would be helpful if you give us the exact details of where you read it etc.



War in itself is an idea.

No race or country has EVER converted to ANY religion by sword or force. Conversion is an idea which took time, in Sub Continent, in Middle east, Indonesia etc it took centuries to convert an entire race or a country to Islam and that was through their free choice. Islam didn't do what the British did to the Aboriginals in America,Canada and Australia. Generals and traders just exposed local populations to Islam. In the case of Sub Continent it was spread by Sufis [Dervesh] over centuries and even today Muslims are a minority.




Weren't you expelled by the Russians to the Ottoman Empire? I am yet to find any evidence of a Muslim invasion either Arab or others, in Circassia?

This is how Christianity was implemented on Circassia.

"1333 - In his letter, Pope John XXII (to the king Zichia (Circassia) Verzacht ["Верзахта" in Cyrillic script]), the Rome (Avignon) Pontiff thanks the Governor of Circassians for his assistance in implementing the Christian faith among the Adygs (Circassians)."



Why were Muslims some of the richest people in the world just a few hundred years ago, with one of the longest standing empires in history? - What you have stated has nothing to do with Religion, but economics and social order. Most Muslim nations are coming out of long periods of colonization and a vast majority of whom are doing absolutely fine.

Does your question apply to the Christians of europe in WW1 & WW2? Just ask yourself?




They are forbidden but consuming any of them doesn't make you a non Muslim.



There is no "restriction" on sexual relationship in Islam. The restriction is on "premarital/extramarital sex". Again it doesn't make you a non Muslim, if one does have extra marital or pre marital sexual relationships.



....and Islam allows you to get married in a simple ceremony as soon as you reach puberty, so where is the restriction?



Its perfectly fine to be unsure.



I appreciate your openness.

I had to reply this long because you are my brother,please read carefully,try to understand what i wrote and write me back with intelligent questions. I usually take great pleasure in asking people questions instead.

 

[VelocuR]

Great questions, I recommend you to ask more questions what's in your minds. It is normal, nothing to be ashamed.

I do research and many common questions but Islam is the guidance of our life and the way. Civil wars is Ninety percent related to politics situations, nothing to do with Muslims label or religions issues. In fact, they live under dictatorship more than 40 years in most Arab countries, it is interesting experiments and trials.

 

[Awesome]

Well the title is right. And a question to be shoot through.

well actually, since my academy years till the previous month. I was an atheist. But before that i was always and still asking questions to myself about is there a God really? Today I'm the guy who has learned Quran. But especially lately this week, i was kind of a Einstein. yes, today I do believe that there's God but I am not sure about Islam, like;

If God exists, it's claimed that Islam is the true religion, then why it's the one that always takes the hardest way at anything, at least most of them?

I know the reason of fasting and ramazan but it's not healthy for we humans other than loosing weight. It says us to encourage little kids to fast. But especially for them; it's harmful. Why stopping eating and become hungry to feel others instead of buying a meal for a poor person to make him/her feel better and healthy.

Why Arabic why? Every social, family laws of Islam is based at Arabic culture and arabic nationalism. Honestly I don't wanna learn sth religious with Arabic. Why would I learn Arabic to find out my religion?

If our fate's already written, why God wants to examine it's people. Why there is a need for "a Quiz" as every soul's fate is written?

I read some parts. It says to kill those who reject Islam. What's goin on there. Is this comin from the "religion of peace".

I've never seen a race/country who accepted Islam without having a war with the Arabic, or a bloody civil war under the name of "revolution". EX: I'm Circassian, we were christian (ortodox) actually., when the arabs came to caucasus to spread their view, we've resisted for dozens of years. then We've been broken up. And accepted Islam. Ok.

If Islamic rules are the best (it has to be if it's the true religion). Why all of the muslim nations we know are either in a civil war or there's a dictatorship or people uprise or HDI and GDP is very very low?

I get that; cigarettes and alcohol (count alcohol out IMO) are forbidden because they are harmful. But why there's a restrict for sexual relationship. At least it starts to become a human need even at the middle of the teenage period according to researchs.

Anyways, for my logic, Of course there's a God. But Islam? I'm not sure about it ???

What do you say? I'd like to hear opinions from muslim/jewish/christian/hindu/atheist members.

(I was gonna open that thread in somewhere else. But then either there'd be a religion war or people trying to act like clerics/saints, i do want to hear some serious facts, assistance, replies with logic)

Rule number 1 of religion. If god exists, you owe all your existence to god and he is your master. Rules of religion are not to be justified (although most CAN be justified), God told you to do this, do it. God told you to pray 5 times a day, do it. God told you to keep mandatory fast in Ramadan, do it. God doesn't need your prayers, god doesn't need your fasts.

That was rule number one of being religious. Explanation number 1 of almost all things is that you're here in this life for a limited period of time, the real 'life' is the afterlife - for eternity. Everything God asks you to do is a test, on which you'd be scored and then sent to heaven or hell. I mean 'scored' very loosely.

Then you can find various scientific, social and moral justifications to most things to satisfy the human need for finding logic in all their actions. But religion is an act of faith, primarily, not an act of science.

Very interesting that you raised a question about "why Arabic?". Simple explanation would be because the Prophet was an Arab, he spoke Arabic. He was entrusted with the responsibility to pass on God's message, he could do that only in Arabic. If you look at the five pillars of Islam (a basic responsibility every Muslim must fullfil), there is very little Arabian culture about it: Shahadah (belief, which you have), Salat (Prayer), Ramadan (fasting), Zakat (Charity), Hajj.

Moreover Quran also comments on this, "Why Arabic" question:

Sahih International
And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained in detail [in our language]? Is it a foreign [recitation] and an Arab [messenger]?" Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness. Those are being called from a distant place.

We have a recurring theme here, about faith. Once you open your heart and read things in their context with meaning you'll understand it and you will also appreciate it.

About Muslim nations being in dastardly conditions is hardly due to Islam. They are filled with cheaters, looters and murderers. Qualities Islam teaches you to fight off. They just invoke Islam to fool the foolish masses.

Now about FATE, its a complex thing. Any omnipotent being will be all knowing and thus will know the outcomes of all that is to happen. This belief can be appreciated from a scientific point of view - if you know each and every variable of each and everything, its not about guessing what would happen, but be a thing of surety.

But its more complex than that... An omnipotent being may be able to alter events in favor or against you so you have the option of asking God a favorable outcome in prayer, but if he knows all that is to happen, and all that you are to ask. So it is indeed complicated.

But again he's omnipotent, the impossible can become possible. The state of omnipotence can only be speculated in a philosophical manner, but since we aren't one, we can't perceive it.

My take is there is an element of free will as far as our tiny existence is concerned and sometimes there isn't.

Finally this what the Quran says

Sahih International What comes to you of good is from Allah , but what comes to you of evil, [O man], is from yourself. And We have sent you, [O Muhammad], to the people as a messenger, and sufficient is Allah as Witness.

 

[Kompromat]

@Neptune - I must appreciate your honest and open nature. The reply by @Aeronaut is also nice.
However I have a few observations if I may.

1. Fasting - Muslims don't actually do full day fasting in Ramadan. They break it every day by iftaar. Fasting is not entirely harmful for people. Indeed there is upvas in Dharmic religions too. But imposing it on everyone is unfair in my opinion.

It is not imposed on Everyone - Sick,Children-Elderly-Women during their period-mentally unstable-physically disabled are exempt. No sky falls on you if you don't fast, and absolutely no one pulls a gun to your face. Its about self development through free choice of practice.

2. "Islam gives Muslims the right to self defense"

Yes it does.

Can you please tell why the Persian empire was invaded, or Spain(Andalus). Those were not simple imperialistic wars.

I'd like to see an evidence, as to why do you think that they were purely religious wars?

They were done in the name of Islam.

Please provide an evidence, that refutes other aspects like conflict,conquest, trade, business and so on.

Even the 'invitation' to Islam was given to the Persian emperor.

Why is that Ironic? - The letters were sent to all major powers around the Arabia peninsula. They reminded the rulers of those nations of their responsibility to their people and invitation to Islam as many prophets have done so before.

I personally don't think that it is self defence.

They were introduction and "invitations" not "ultimatums".

This is the letter written to the Christian monastery by the Prophet.

This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.

No compulsion is to be on them.

Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.

Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet.

Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.

The Muslims are to fight for them.

If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.

Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).

Another thing is that the entire world belongs to Allah according to the Quran.

Which means that the universe was created by God - why is that Ironic ?

So theoretically a group can try to impose its will on non Muslim nations by that logic. Somehow does not sound very convincing - sorry.

That is just how you like to see it.

3. -

No sir. Let me just give you the example of Spain. When the Ummayyids went there it became majority Muslim.

Any evidence?

During Reconquista the Christians again converted the people.

4.In the sub-continent the Muslims are not a minority. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh are majority Muslim. These areas remained under Islamic rule for the maximum periods of time(in contrast to say - Maharastra).

Afghanistan is part of C.Asia and yes Muslims are a minority in the sub continent.

5. Islamic did initially improve their status. But in contrast to other cultures can you say that was good enough? Another important distinction is that other cultures have evolved over time and disgusting practices like witch burning and sati have been abolished. People condemn it unanimously. Unfortunately acts like stoning, honor killing(true - this one has more to do with pre-Islamic times), public lashes are all too common. From clothing to sexuality to inheritance - Muslim women have lesser rights. What is worse - only few people condemn it.

You are mixing cultures with Religion. Islam gives fundamental rights to the women and they are considered equal. If Women are discriminated against,in Muslim nations the fault lies with the Muslims for depriving them from their due rights.

6. Sorry sir but that is haram. A big sin at that!

Haram = Prohibited and it doesn't make you a non muslim.

Though I don't wish to encourage adultery but the punishments recommended in the Shariah is, well, you know...
Same goes for alcohol and swine meat/blood.

Adultery doesn't equate to renouncing faith!

7 the reason Iran(for example) allows marriage at the age of 9!

Evidence? - Is that marriage or Nikkah?

Tell me sir, will you be willing to give off your daughter at that young age?

I don't answer sentimental questions. He asked me a question for teenager's desire to have sex and i responded to it. It is allowed in islam to get married as soon as you reach puberty and your circumstances allow you to sustain a family.

And wish you a healthy Ramadan.

Thank you, you too.