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Longewala 'lies' - Nailed

Actually you are doing nothing more than showing what a big retard you are. Understand the point first before embarrassing all the Pakistanis by your stupid posts.

When battle of Longewala was fought, the army of 120 men stopped an attack of 2000 soldiers and whatever tanks pakistan sent, the role of airforce wasn't critical, that has been the official story not contested by Pakistan. Now in the bollywood film you are talking about like an idiot and making a complete fool of yourself, it was shown that airforce was actually critical to the victory of India there. That was one of the major criticisms of border as it was said to have displayed IA in a bad light. however the author now claims that airforce was critical to the operations that day and it hasn't been given enough credit. So by agreeing with the author, you are basically agreeing with the movie border without even knowing it. As I said, an idiot.


lol. I think yup you are really annoyed thats why now you are resorting to name calling. Now if you dont have the intellect to understand what i wrote and therefore are so annoyed. Excellent.
Indians are so emotional when it comes to their false heroes being exposed by their own people. LOL.
Accept the truth with a pinch of salt. and go and watch that fantasy moive 'border' again.
:coffee:
 
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Actually you are doing nothing more than showing what a big retard you are. Understand the point first before embarrassing all the Pakistanis by your stupid posts.

When battle of Longewala was fought, the army of 120 men stopped an attack of 2000 soldiers and whatever tanks pakistan sent, the role of airforce wasn't critical, that has been the official story not contested by Pakistan. Now in the bollywood film you are talking about like an idiot and making a complete fool of yourself, it was shown that airforce was actually critical to the victory of India there. That was one of the major criticisms of border as it was said to have displayed IA in a bad light. however the author now claims that airforce was critical to the operations that day and it hasn't been given enough credit. So by agreeing with the author, you are basically agreeing with the movie border without even knowing it. As I said, an idiot.


BTW a well trained force of 100 who happens to be dug in bunkers can delay an advance of 2000 men.

It may sound heroic, but it is not difficult per se.

It also depends on night time vs. day time combat back in 1971.



So let movies be movies and books be books.


peace
 
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lol. I think yup you are really annoyed thats why now you are resorting to name calling. Now if you dont have the intellect to understand what i wrote and therefore are so annoyed. Excellent.
Indians are so emotional when it comes to their false heroes being exposed by their own people. LOL.
Accept the truth with a pinch of salt. and go and watch that fantasy moive 'border' again.
:coffee:

Dude I have explained you in as simple words as I can. Border depicts what the author is saying, If you are agreeing with the author, you are agreeing with Border, as simple as that. If you still can't understand it, see a doctor, you need it.

BTW a well trained force of 100 who happens to be dug in bunkers can delay an advance of 2000 men.

It may sound heroic, but it is not difficult per se.

It also depends on night time vs. day time combat back in 1971.



So let movies be movies and books be books.


peace

Not saying whether it was heroic or not. I am just wondering how one person can call Border a fantasy and the book a truth when both say that IAF was critical to Indian victory that day. That user needs to come to his senses.
 
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Bombing civilian areas is another evidence of un-professionalism of Indian army.
Read the OP it is from real life Indian General not from some arm chair fauji.


Actually both PAF and IAF had an understanding to not do the indiscriminate bombing of each other's cities.

The issue is that PAF didn't have as much access to major civilians areas of India
as did IAF to major Pakistani areas.

Geography my friend. Geography.
 
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Look I admire Chuck as a pilot.

What he says is going to be true.


But this writing doesn't reflect the reality of how PAF defended or didn't defend our major cities. May be they focused on defending major bases like Sargodha or capital Islu.


But unfortunately PAF was not able to stop IAF from attacking our infrastructure or big cities in 1971.


1965 was a different story though. Back then PAF had clear superiority.


peace


Aray bhai, lets look at the 1971 war logistically. The Indians had started training the Bengalis months in advance in weapons training and alot of Bengalis in Pakistan army deserted and joined them. They were around close to 200,000 or more. India had around 250,000 soldiers in that border and it has atleast 6 to 7 squadron of IAF based there.
Pakistan had around 75,000 regular army. Plus rangers and police of about 20,000 odd. We had only 1 suadron of PAF there. SO when the war started PAF was no match there and they did the right thing by taking their planes to Iran. And Pakistan army could not beat the combined forces of Indian army and the Bengalis. We were outmatched and cut off from West Pakistan. Strategically no one could have won that war in those circumstances. Now in West Pakistan we fought bravely and our PAF screwed then over. Our planes too attacked their cities in the border town and our army fought bravely.
Now we can argue about why did Gen Niazi surrender and did not fight on. But our ammunition was only a few days left. The result would have been the same. He figured to save lives. And he is hated now.
Let the Indians be happy, as only with these kind of circumstances they could have won the war. If the odds were equal they would not dream of fighting us.

In 1965, when we had the Bengalis on our side see what happened. Unity is very important, without it the enemy will always triumph.
 
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Actually both PAF and IAF had an understanding to not do the indiscriminate bombing of each other's cities.

The issue is that PAF didn't have as much access to major civilians areas of India
as did IAF to major Pakistani areas.

Geography my friend. Geography.

In 1965, we had access to Indian areas but we didn't bomb them.
Talk of the day, Major Shabbir held his shooting because of a wedding procession in Indian village, which he conquered.
More over Major Shabbir Sharif spoke with Indian villagers, who mistook him as Indian army personal.
Major, Shabbir Sharif found Indian currency in Indian bunkers, which was returned to HQ and eventually to handed over to Indian General.
No Sir, Pak army do not do that.. instead one Indian told me that Indian arm used there own, Muslim soldiers as human shield during Kargil war.

SO really, your statements are not part of our culture, never heard before todate.
 
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Dude I have explained you in as simple words as I can. Border depicts what the author is saying, If you are agreeing with the author, you are agreeing with Border, as simple as that. If you still can't understand it, see a doctor, you need it.



Not saying whether it was heroic or not. I am just wondering how one person can call Border a fantasy and the book a truth when both say that IAF was critical to Indian victory that day. That user needs to come to his senses.


i am quoting some words from the author. There are many indian experts who have questioned the way the victory was depicted by the indians. I can give many articles. But dont want to bother.

Battle of Longewala: Truth must be told

But some war veterans have challenged this story after 37 years. Major General (retd), Atma Singh Hansara, told Hindustan Times in an interview, “I dispute the ground battle completely. It is mockery of army ethos. No ground battle was fought and the army had merely rehearsed it on a sand model after the ceasefire to cover up the incompetence of senior military commanders.”

Air marshal, MS Bawa, who was directly involved in the war, also agrees with Hansara. He says, “This is a challenge. There was no contact between the enemy and the army.” He further said that the Pakistani thrust was blunted entirely by air action alone.
Truth, it is said, is often the first casualty in the war. The controversy has raised several questions that need to be answered. If this is the truth, then why the army is keeping the lie still alive? Is the army taking more credit than it deserves? What incompetence military commanders are trying to hide? If former officers are correct, then what has propelled them to speak now? They should have protested before or even when the film Border was released?

The Indian army has been in news for wrong reasons, and it is time more facts were opened to put an end to this (de)famed battle. But let’s not make any conclusions unless we hear from both the forces. It is better not to conclude with half knowledge. This is something related to the dignified and respected Indian armed forces, and thus, it is in the interest of services that the truth about the Longewala battle be told to the citizens.

Source:COPYRIGHT © 2006-2013 Bizsol Advisors Pvt. Ltd. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
 
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In 1965, when we had the Bengalis on our side see what happened. Unity is very important, without it the enemy will always triumph.

The bold part is the crux ... my words might seem to pinch but we Indians can observe a wedge between the Shia's and Sunni's. Just make sure to mend things between both sects or India won't hesitate to exploit it.
 
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The bold part is the crux ... my words might seem to pinch but we Indians can observe a wedge between the Shia's and Sunni's. Just make sure to mend things between both sects or India won't hesitate to exploit it.


Yeh first take care of your kashmir problem and your North-East indian problem and then talk about unity.
Go to any south indian city and talk to anyone in hindi and see how much they hate you. I like indians, except the north Indians who are ruling india and spoiling it for everyone. Most of my indian friends are from south here in Auckland who really hate north indians.
 
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Yeh first take care of your kashmir problem and your North-East indian problem and then talk about unity.
Go to any south indian city and talk to anyone in hindi and see how much they hate you. I like indians, except the north Indians who are ruling india and spoiling it for everyone. Most of my indian friends are from south here in Auckland who really hate north indians.
Well I know we have lots of troubles but I don't think Pakistan is in a position right now to exploit them
 
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i am quoting some words from the author. There are many indian experts who have questioned the way the victory was depicted by the indians. I can give many articles. But dont want to bother.

Battle of Longewala: Truth must be told

But some war veterans have challenged this story after 37 years. Major General (retd), Atma Singh Hansara, told Hindustan Times in an interview, “I dispute the ground battle completely. It is mockery of army ethos. No ground battle was fought and the army had merely rehearsed it on a sand model after the ceasefire to cover up the incompetence of senior military commanders.”

Air marshal, MS Bawa, who was directly involved in the war, also agrees with Hansara. He says, “This is a challenge. There was no contact between the enemy and the army.” He further said that the Pakistani thrust was blunted entirely by air action alone.
Truth, it is said, is often the first casualty in the war. The controversy has raised several questions that need to be answered. If this is the truth, then why the army is keeping the lie still alive? Is the army taking more credit than it deserves? What incompetence military commanders are trying to hide? If former officers are correct, then what has propelled them to speak now? They should have protested before or even when the film Border was released?

The Indian army has been in news for wrong reasons, and it is time more facts were opened to put an end to this (de)famed battle. But let’s not make any conclusions unless we hear from both the forces. It is better not to conclude with half knowledge. This is something related to the dignified and respected Indian armed forces, and thus, it is in the interest of services that the truth about the Longewala battle be told to the citizens.

Source:COPYRIGHT © 2006-2013 Bizsol Advisors Pvt. Ltd. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

First of all, no link of HT interview exists which is being talked about. The only source exists of the article you just posted was this

The Battle of Longewala

Awesome source. But let us assume the interview did exist for a second.

According to them, no ground battle was fought, airforce alone forced 2000 soldiers and 45 tanks to withdraw? Whose incompetence does it show? IA's or PA's? Do you seriously believe that such a huge force withdrew solely due to action of airforce? Where was your brave PAF which according to you in post 56 screwed us over?

The point is you have seriously no idea of what you are talking about. You just heard some bedtime stories and are repeating the same here. PAF screwed us over in west, yet they didn't arrive to help your 2000 soldiers and 45 tanks more than half of which were destroyed or abandoned on the battlefield, even though the battle raged whole night and well into the next day. most important, if no ground battle took place, who stopped pakistani army at night, since IAF entered at dawn only? Zaid Hamid? And if the ground battle was a lie why hasn't PA contested it in 40 years? Go to the doctor dude, why are you wasting time?
 
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First of all, no link of HT interview exists which is being talked about. The only source exists of the article you just posted was this

The Battle of Longewala

Awesome source. But let us assume the interview did exist for a second.

According to them, no ground battle was fought, airforce alone forced 2000 soldiers and 45 tanks to withdraw? Whose incompetence does it show? IA's or PA's? Do you seriously believe that such a huge force withdrew solely due to action of airforce? Where was your brave PAF which according to you in post 56 screwed us over?

The point is you have seriously no idea of what you are talking about. You just heard some bedtime stories and are repeating the same here. PAF screwed us over in west, yet they didn't arrive to help your 2000 soldiers and 45 tanks more than half of which were destroyed or abandoned on the battlefield, even though the battle raged whole night and well into the next day. most important, if no ground battle took place, who stopped pakistani army at night, since IAF entered at dawn only? Zaid Hamid? And if the ground battle was a lie why hasn't PA contested it in 40 years? Go to the doctor dude, why are you wasting time?


LOl. I have manages to annoy many indians today. Thats a good job done for the day. Truth is sometimes bitter and if you cant accept it ten feel sorry for ya all.

:bounce:
 
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LOl. I have manages to annoy many indians today. Thats a good job done for the day. Truth is sometimes bitter and if you cant accept it ten feel sorry for ya all.

:bounce:

Yes considering the fact I feel really annoyed when someone talks like an idiot, I must say you have managed to annoy me a lot.
 
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Not Important? Its ensuring long held Pakistani belief once again that 'Banya' only wins through cheat, lies & conspiracy not man to man ever throughout history......:hitwall:

This is bizarre.

The controversy, it seems, without having read the book, is only over when the 23 Punjab evacuated their positions. There is no controversy over the massive toll of tanks taken by the IAF.

So how does @Tameem come to the conclusion that the victory was due to cheat (sic), lies & conspiracy? And which moron, at any time in history, has withheld battle until the enemy and he were on equal terms?

LOl. I have manages to annoy many indians today. Thats a good job done for the day. Truth is sometimes bitter and if you cant accept it ten feel sorry for ya all.

:bounce:

LOl. I have manages to annoy many indians today. Thats a good job done for the day. Truth is sometimes bitter and if you cant accept it ten feel sorry for ya all.

Annoy? How does one express mild amusement without the ubiquitous smiley? It was a rout of massive proportions, and you find Atom Singh's debunking of the Indian Army version (a debunking that has been going on for forty years now, and is known far and wide) something to feel triumphant about?

Ah, yes, most annoying.
 
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