Longewala 'lies' - Nailed

[Contrarian]

I do not associate Pakistan as the Qilla of Islam or anything of that sort. But rather as an exemplar of Subcontinent Muslims. Now odd as that may sound considering India has a considerable number of Muslims who are to a large extent very patriotic about their country, yet the self-imposed identity of Pakistan as a Muslim state will always leave a psychological association perhaps not by Indian Muslims but Indian non-muslims of having Muslims in power. After all, underhanded taunts have been used by extreme right wingers in India against Muslims of "going to their own country"(Pakistan) in the past and such motives do pop up now and then as well. So with Pakistan(regardless of whether they support the country or not) any ambitions or any hope of Muslims ever regaining their chance of communal equality is to be quashed along with it.

You raise two issues here.
1. Right wing groups of India using slogans related to Pakistan against Indian Muslims.
2. India attempting to put down Pakistan with the specific aim of making sure that Muslims dont have communal equality. It maybe a secondary aim of India, but an aim nonetheless(per you).

If you are open to the idea of changing your views, then this issue can be discussed further and I will try and clear what appears to me as a dichotomy.

First thing, you are ignoring the society of India as a dynamic living being. You presume it is static, that it is today what it was 2 decades back, and will remain same 2 decades hence.

The right wing groups of India use slogans related to Pakistan in case of riots - ie to incite violence in either strike or retaliation. This generally occurs when there is a case of some specific case of wahabi/deobandis in an area.

However you would find that rioting in India is decreasing each year. And as more and more Muslims are joining the mainstream - ie they are getting educated, getting better jobs and moving out of their ghettos, this rioting is decreasing. These educated Muslims themselves are driving change in their community at the grassroots.

The society is changing. There is more intermingling than ever before. You presume that what was 20 years ago is true now.

Secondly, the idea that India is attempting to put down Pakistan to emasculate it, with the objective of 'showing the Muslims their place'. That concept is inherently wrong. Indians hate Pakistan inherently despite what a few do gooders say. We associate Pakistan with everything that is wrong - terrorism, killing, jihad, backwardness, 3 foot long beards. The idea is to punish Pakistan, not as symbol of Muslims. The partition generation is long gone, the remnants are going out in India. Perhaps partition evokes stronger feelings in Pakistan and is remembered there more as half of Pakistan is Punjab. But in India, that is not the case.

The desire to punish Pakistan stems solely from their attempts at undermining India and the spread of terrorism, not being a symbol of Muslims.

The desire to feel superior, ie make sure that Pakistan was never our equal has always been strong - and has been achieved. That desire is satiated. The idea is firmly implanted in all India's minds that now(as in from the last decade) we have moved much further than them. Now they are backward people and we are not. Bear in mind that this in iteself is a major reason that Indians associate Pakistan with everything wrong.

That is exactly what I had meant in the first post. A Pakistan that promotes its national interests is not in the interests of India. A Awami League Bangladesh... ever compromising and subservient is the solution sought for Pakistan then and today as well.

Now I do not support many of the methods used to promote national interests, but national interests they are and to give them up is essentially making Pakistan a eunuch for India.

There are right and left wings, pro peace and pro war.. sane and insane voices in all state machinery and leadership. These cycle throughout but one does end up dominating the other. The voice of coexistence still echoes in India to a large extent as it does in Pakistan. However, they are drowned out by the more extreme and more belligerent in the finality of national purpose in Pakistan long ago and the same has become of India as well.. and that I belief with conviction; regardless of how anyone else thinks of it.

You have done an MBA. You must have heard of self fulfilling prophecies?
In its desire to peruse national goals of averting an India destroying Pakistan, Pakistan has pushed India and Afghanistan to try and undermine Pakistan's existence.

Dont you think this is rather apt in this scenario?

 

[FaujHistorian]

....
In its desire to peruse national goals of averting an India destroying Pakistan, Pakistan has pushed India and Afghanistan

This statement of yours, totally ignores the history of the region from 1947 onwards.

Please do not spread ignorance.

Thank you

 

[Contrarian]

This statement of yours, totally ignores the history of the region from 1947 onwards.

Please do not spread ignorance.

Thank you

Sorry Fauji, I disagree. Im more than happy to debate this if you wish.