Lockheed Martin signs pact with Tata to make F-16 planes in India

[kris]

Vendor selection in 2021. Start of induction 2024. Long way to go..



How does that matter?

With modi it will be early

 

[MastanKhan]

I wonder how the PAF pilots will live this new reality, how can they even spend rest of their lives seeing this situation of their beloved f-sola. May be they will push army to normalise relationship with India for f--solas?
@MastanKhan

Hi,

What do you mean by " live with this new reality "----. I had mentioned it years ago---it is the Paf generals who had sabotaged the F16---.

I told you guys that they were and are traitors of pakistan---.

First the too honest to be in making a deal caused the loss of the mirage 2000---then the treason against pakistanis caused the loss of the F16 sale.

Funds for weapons are not meant to be donated to charity---they are only and only for purchase of weapons---.

 

[kris]

Buying a US platform as our frontline or mainstay fighters that too in large numbers from the US would be the dumbest move India could ever make. The way how Trump has backed out from various agreements and treaties, how they withdrew support to various countries or supporting both sides of a conflict like the KSA vs Qatar and how they back stabbed many nations including Pak regarding the sale of F-16s are enough to say US is an unreliable partner and all it cares for is it's own interests.

I've seen many Indian members claiming it will create an aerospace ecosystem and what not but what LM is really trying to do is offload an obsolete tech where we will eventually see erroneous cost escalations where LM will make huge amounts of money while IAF will be left with an obsolete tech and I'm pretty sure US wouldn't accept for full ToT. Moreover F-16 has reached it's zenith of modernization and by the time LM sets up a plant, starts production - IAF may receive it's first jet by 2025 by which China and maybe even Pak would've acquired 5th gen fighters. PAF pilots also know the F-16s in and out and have been well versed with them, so even if IAF receives Blk-70, IAF may have an upper hand in BVR combat but PAF would definitely have an upper hand in WVR combat atleast for the first 5-7 years after induction. It is always better to rope in a technology partner like Dassault or some Russian firm and develop the AMCA and the GTX-Kaveri engine which could be used in both AMCA and LCA

You forgot the point that Trump doesn't stay forever.
Second, why the hell will India pay for shifting lm stuff to India. We never invited them here.
At last, no tot no order.
Our air chief has already told that the best offer will be awarded
So, chill

 

[Jugger]

I would still prefer our Tejas with uprated engine, modern weapon and EW suit over f16s.
Tejas FTW.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Here is the list of suppliers for the F-16, that India will have to deal with.

http://www.airframer.com/aircraft_detail.html?model=F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Including:

• Hellenic Aerospace
• BAE Systems
• Korean Air Aerospace Corporation
• Elbit
• Therma A/S, Denmark
• TTTech Computertech AG, Germany
• Fokker, Holland
• Metronor A/S, Denmark
• Rohde & Schwarz, Germany
• TAT Technologies, Israel

Such suppliers are supplying fuselage, wings, engines, control surfaces, landing gear, wheels,
radar, EW, IRST, fuel tanks, power supplies, computers, ejection seat and cockpit electronics to Lockheed Martin. (Of course not everything listed, look at the link)

Lockheed Martin does the rest.

 

[帅的一匹]

Here is the list of suppliers for the F-16, that India will have to deal with.

http://www.airframer.com/aircraft_detail.html?model=F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Including:

• Hellenic Aerospace
• BAE Systems
• Korean Air Aerospace Corporation
• Elbit
• Therma A/S, Denmark
• TTTech Computertech AG, Germany
• Fokker, Holland
• Metronor A/S, Denmark
• Rohde & Schwarz, Germany
• TAT Technologies, Israel

Such suppliers are supplying fuselage, wings, engines, control surfaces, landing gear, wheels,
radar, EW, IRST, fuel tanks, power supplies, computers, ejection seat and cockpit electronics to Lockheed Martin. (Of course not everything listed, look at the link)

Lockheed Martin does the rest.

On the other hand, India has chance to expose himself to so many excellent suppliers, although it's logistic nightmare.

I would still prefer our Tejas with uprated engine, modern weapon and EW suit over f16s.
Tejas FTW.

Forget the Tejas, it's a notorious design in Human aviation development.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

Here is the list of suppliers for the F-16, that India will have to deal with.

http://www.airframer.com/aircraft_detail.html?model=F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Including:

• Hellenic Aerospace
• BAE Systems
• Korean Air Aerospace Corporation
• Elbit
• Therma A/S, Denmark
• TTTech Computertech AG, Germany
• Fokker, Holland
• Metronor A/S, Denmark
• Rohde & Schwarz, Germany
• TAT Technologies, Israel

Such suppliers are supplying fuselage, wings, engines, control surfaces, landing gear, wheels,
radar, EW, IRST, fuel tanks, power supplies, computers, ejection seat and cockpit electronics to Lockheed Martin. (Of course not everything listed, look at the link)

Lockheed Martin does the rest.

The idea is to create domestic partnership with those suppliers- TATA is not like Lockheed Martin, they have a very good network of may small companies under TATA group which can partner with these suppliers- and add up to the global supply change-

I think total value of TATA group is above 100 billlon USD- Which includes companies which make sell steel to salt, cars to computer software- Recently they have started selling spices, they also had telecom business- They make wings and tail of C-130, soon they start production of Artillery guns- They also have one of India's oldest research Institution called TATA Institute of Fundamental research-

 

[nandini lata]

unlike here, chinese and indians give respect to each other in real world

 

[#hydra#]

You forgot the point that Trump doesn't stay forever.
Second, why the hell will India pay for shifting lm stuff to India. We never invited them here.
At last, no tot no order.
Our air chief has already told that the best offer will be awarded
So, chill

It's up ignorance,do you think that a private business firm will do things for free. If at all LM shifts it's production line to India,then they will manage that cost via selling weapons to India,at the end OF the day we will be paying extra money per aircraft.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The idea is to create domestic partnership with those suppliers- TATA is not like Lockheed Martin, they have a very good network of may small companies under TATA group which can partner with these suppliers- and add up to the global supply change-

I think total value of TATA group is above 100 billlon USD- Which includes companies which make sell steel to salt, cars to computer software- Recently they have started selling spices, they also had telecom business- They make wings and tail of C-130, soon they start production of Artillery guns- They also have one of India's oldest research Institution called TATA Institute of Fundamental research-

There are several points to this list.
1. India will be dealing with companies from many nations, regardless if F-16 or Gripen is selected.
2. The technology transfer, Lockheed Martin can provide is limited.
It appears that Lockheed is mainly assembling components they get elsewhere.
3. There are contracts in place where certain companies have the right to produce certain
parts for the F-16 that were signed when different countries purchased the F-16.
This means that it is not neccessarily possible for India to produce parts
even if they have the capability.
4. Other parts contain IP of the current manufacturer, and they are not motivated
to provide ToT to India.
5. With no orders for 5-7 years, they may put them on last time buy,
sometimes because their suppliers obsolete components.

 

[StraightShooter]

Why is Indian defense bureaucracy so slow?

1) Strategic Partnership policy has already been finalized in 2017

2) Vendors to pick their Indian partners by end of 2017 based on SP policy

3) RFP would be issued in 2018 for 200 Jets

4) Proposals would be submitted by the vendors in 2019

5) Limited trials would be completed in 2020

6) Vendor selection would be done in 2021

7) Negotiations would be completed and contract would be signed in 2022

8) First fighter would be inducted in 2024-25

 

[Papa Dragon]

You forgot the point that Trump doesn't stay forever.
Second, why the hell will India pay for shifting lm stuff to India. We never invited them here.
At last, no tot no order.
Our air chief has already told that the best offer will be awarded
So, chill

Trump wouldn't stay forever but hasn't US been like that forever, the way it used countries as puppets but not as allies. India may not pay LM for shifting stuff to India but LM will definitely cover those expenses by escalating the costs eventually. Coming to the air chiefs, IA and IAF have the most corrupt top brass and will favor the deal which offers more goodies to them.

USAF SEEKS TO EXPAND F-16 LIFE-EXTENSION PROGRAM (if it remains relevant for USAF till 2048, should it not suffice for our timeframe requirement, by which we slowly replace with more potent platforms like the AMCA)

The U.S. Air Force (USAF) is looking to build upon its forthcoming service-life extension plan (SLEP) for its Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Block-40/42 and Block-50/52 fighters from 4,000 to 5,856 additional hours.

The Air Force greenlit the F-16 SLEP program in April with the aim of keeping its F-16 Block-40/42/50/52 fleet in service until 2048 by extending the fighter’s airframe life from 8,000 hours to 12,000 hours.

However, in its posting to the Federal Business Opportunities (FBO) website on June 12, the Air Force increased both the hours required from the SLEP as well as the number of F-16s from 300 to 841.

Yeah because replacing over 1000 F-16s with the F-35s would cost them a bomb.

 

[ranadd]

Forget the Tejas, it's a notorious design in Human aviation development.

Then why there are 1000's frame of same design principle flying?

 

[duhastmish]

Bottomline F16 stays relevant in USAF till 2048. I think that timeline should also suffice IAF timelines, by when we should have the HAL AMCA in sufficient numbers.

Bottom line is that f16 is right at bottom of line.

It's as worthy as mig 21. Paying such big amount for 14 years is not just insane but stupid even for rich countries.

You have no clue what technology will offer in next 8 to 9 years. When these 40 50 year old jets will be inducted.

China will have big technological gap which will be impossible to fill.

F16 being the Pakistani child they know most of its weakness.

Now amca is far away. Don't talk about it it's only on papers. Fgfa dream is almost over.

Indian Air Force is sinking low and underground. We need to look at future not past. These udan khatola theory of amca is useless. Need to work out because if you spend too much on junk where do u pay the money for actual stuff.

 

[kris]

Trump wouldn't stay forever but hasn't US been like that forever, the way it used countries as puppets but not as allies. India may not pay LM for shifting stuff to India but LM will definitely cover those expenses by escalating the costs eventually. Coming to the air chiefs, IA and IAF have the most corrupt top brass and will favor the deal which offers more goodies to them.



Yeah because replacing over 1000 F-16s with the F-35s would cost them a bomb.

Escalating costs will make F-16 costly and India won't go for them
You just can't throw a blanket statement over all service chiefs

It's up ignorance,do you think that a private business firm will do things for free. If at all LM shifts it's production line to India,then they will manage that cost via selling weapons to India,at the end OF the day we will be paying extra money per aircraft.

If shifting is for India alone.
Why should India pay for an outdated design and old infra, that too to feed a foreign company....
LM should be day dreaming