Lockheed Martin signs pact with Tata to make F-16 planes in India

[ranadd]

If this goes through with production, then the Indian government will have to pay royalty fees to the UAE Government.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-uaes-f-16-block-60-desert-falcon-fleet-04538/

No they wont. Thats not how this will work out. LM is not "giving" the jet or IP to India. LM is "relocating" the location. LM owns everything.

On the other hand, UAE will pay Tata-LM JV for maintenance. Which is pittance in comparison to what India will loose from day 1 the agreement is signed.

India will not gain anything towards our industry. Just political points, which remain to be seen.

Does this mean Pakistan is moving on from F-16s? Eurofighter seems like the next best thing given that India is getting Rafale as well.

Pakistanis knew days of US backing them is long over. They already in JV with Chinese. Lets not go into who owns what. They are getting the jets in cheap. It flies, It fires, It lands. Period.

India is trying to achieve that using this deal. Indians love phoren maal.

PAF will move to J-31 when Chinese government is willing to sell it to them in favorable rates. Don't expect PAF F16 to enter Indian air space for maintenance.

 

[El Sidd]

So wait...

Muricans are taking their jobs back from the world and giving it to India?

Will these F16s be eligible for H1B1 visa?

Taka tak

 

[ranadd]

So wait...

Muricans are taking their jobs back from the world and giving it to India?

Will these F16s be eligible for H1B1 visa?

Taka tak

Yes and No. Looks like final integration will move to India. Eitherway, the plant was facing shutdown/ramping down etc. LM will be able to run the F16 line for extra decade in their projections. Obvious the cost for them will also come down.

Tata's are doing very cost effective runs for the Apache and Chinook lines in India already. Guess they proved their mettle.

H1B1 is not for India by the way. Its for some other SE country. Singapore?

 

[mjnaushad]

As far i understand the will manufacture planes for Lockheed kinda like outsourcing. But thats not why I opened this article, I opened it to enjoy the U-Turn some of my friends will take here and start appreciating the F 16 because I've been here for around 10 years and boy i heard some bad bad things about F 16 by my friends from across the border.

 

[Raider 21]

Pakistanis knew days of US backing them is long over. They already in JV with Chinese. Lets not go into who owns what. They are getting the jets in cheap. It flies, It fires, It lands. Period.

If the cards are played right then it will be a fulcrum point between USA and China. Those "days of USA backing them" were supposedly over in the early 90s...yet they still maintain good relations, at least from a military POV. Trump is thinking of his business gains ahead of his country's gains. At least that is my judgment, I can be wrong though.

Also I believe the license production is for the supposed Indian AF F-16s, not the entire F-16 assembly line from Fort Worth, Texas as that is being moved over to Greenville, South Carolina.

 

[El Sidd]

Yes and No. Looks like final integration will move to India. Eitherway, the plant was facing shutdown/ramping down etc. LM will be able to run the F16 line for extra decade in their projections. Obvious the cost for them will also come down.

Tata's are doing very cost effective runs for the Apache and Chinook lines in India already. Guess they proved their mettle.

H1B1 is not for India by the way. Its for some other SE country. Singapore?

Sounds fair enough for a good business case.

How does the planned cooperation with Russia plays in to this?

They are just treating this as nothing but a bargaining trick?

 

[ranadd]

Also I believe the license production is for the supposed Indian AF F-16s, not the entire F-16 assembly line from Fort Worth, Texas as that is being moved over to Greenville, South Carolina.

This plant will start with F-16 Blk 70 and move as MRO for all the F-16 line.

Sounds fair enough for a good business case.

How does the planned cooperation with Russia plays in to this?

They are just treating this as nothing but a bargaining trick?

Russians are not soviets. India is slowly recognizing there are no allies in this world. Just countries siding with minimum risk.

Light fighter is going to US(Wish LCA Tejas was here. But good news about mk1a. FOC is 2018 Q1~Q2), Medium Fighter to France(Maybe AMCA will take this place one day). The Front line heavy fighter class which India depends the most upon is still with Russia.

 

[El Sidd]

This plant will start with F-16 Blk 70 and move as MRO for all the F-16 line.



Russians are not soviets. India is slowly recognizing there are no allies in this world. Just countries siding with minimum risk.

Light fighter is going to US(Wish LCA Tejas was here), Medium Fighter to France(Maybe AMCA will take this place one day). The Front line heavy fighter class which India depends the most upon is still with Russia.

These are wise decisions. Cost effective, shrewd yet top notch.

So this dwindling market doesn't bother Russia at all. And they not being the Soviets might be a good thing if you ask me.

Business sense is admirable. My sincere wishes.

But

The strategic sense is what matters in the region as of now. How do you see this?

 

[Raider 21]

This plant will start with F-16 Blk 70 and move as MRO for all the F-16 line.

Well that should open the door for MRO activities for PAF F-16s as well. Ideally I meant, realistically it will or might not be that way. A lot of supervision from Lockheed Martin (worked with them for ground/flight testing on F-16s so I have an idea how strict the then to be) will be required if the contract is awarded as India has known to have had some poor QA (BAE employees told me that when they worked on the Hawk program over at HAL).

 

[El Sidd]

Well that should open the door for MRO activities for PAF F-16s as well. Ideally I meant, realistically it will or might not be that way. A lot of supervision from Lockheed Martin (worked with them for ground/flight testing on F-16s so I have an idea how strict the then to be) will be required if the contract is awarded as India has known to have had some poor QA (BAE employees told me that when they worked on the Hawk program over at HAL).

By that logic and sorry for being too Pakistani about this, doesn't Pakistani not already have an edge on this.
We have been operating F16s for quite a while now.
Its like F16 me hum tumhare baap hain.


So don't jump the gun just yet on this.

This is a huge development for everyone involved so maybe a little realistic?

 

[Raider 21]

By that logic and sorry for being too Pakistani about this, doesn't Pakistani not already have an edge on this.
We have been operating F16s for quite a while now.
Its like F16 me hum tumhare baap hain.


So don't jump the gun just yet on this.

This is a huge development for everyone involved so maybe a little realistic?

None at all. Appreciate the thought. Only time will tell what happens.
Cheers !!!

 

[El Sidd]

None at all. Appreciate the thought. Only time will tell what happens.
Cheers !!!

Thanks.
Now that's realistic of you.
Much appreciated.

Only Time will tell.

 

[hassamun]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1340492/lockheed-martin-agrees-to-build-f-16-fighter-jets-in-india

 

[ranadd]

Well that should open the door for MRO activities for PAF F-16s as well. Ideally I meant, realistically it will or might not be that way. A lot of supervision from Lockheed Martin (worked with them for ground/flight testing on F-16s so I have an idea how strict the then to be) will be required if the contract is awarded as India has known to have had some poor QA (BAE employees told me that when they worked on the Hawk program over at HAL).

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Bottom line is, ego trumps everything else. PAF wont come to India. But MRO is carrot here. Nothing else.

No one is talking about HAL here. But Tata.

Tata, L&T, Mahindra are on a different level. HAL is not so bad when it comes to their bottom line, I am giving them a generous scale. You get what you pay. They are used to building Russian planes more than anything else. Even with less tolerance, those babies will purr. As it is known, Russians designed their wares to take off from the harshest conditions.

Western wares are most definitely not like that. I have heard a story where dust clumps used to affect Mirage radars. Not a first hand or second hand info. So maybe a lie.

Also, I always take western companies talk about Indian companies with a tonne of salt. Have you been to Boeing Everret plant? I would eat food off the shop floor, the air is so crisp etc etc. HAL plants are not like that. Not even Tata Defense. I have seen L&T, Tata and HAL shop floors. SEA will always be a different world for them.

 

[Raider 21]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Bottom line is, ego trumps everything else. PAF wont come to India. But MRO is carrot here. Nothing else.

No one is talking about HAL here. But Tata.

Tata, L&T, Mahindra are on a different level. HAL is not so bad when it comes to their bottom line, I am giving them a generous scale. You get what you pay. They are used to building Russian planes more than anything else. Even with less tolerance, those babies will purr. As it is known, Russians designed their wares to take off from the harshest conditions.

Western wares are most definitely not like that. I have heard a story where dust clumps used to affect Mirage radars. Not a first hand or second hand info. So maybe a lie.

Also, I always take western companies talk about Indian companies with a tonne of salt. Have you been to Boeing Everret plant? I would eat food off the shop floor, the air is so crisp etc etc. HAL plants are not like that. Not even Tata Defense. I have seen L&T, Tata and HAL shop floors. SEA will always be a different world for them.

Ego does trump everywhere, South Asia is very well known for it. There is always Turkey and South Korea for MRO.

I basically mentioned from what I've heard. The exact details I will keep to myself as they were quite alarming, then again it was years ago and I'm guessing measures must have been taken to upgrade their capabilities.

As the for Boeing plant at Everett, yes I will be visiting it soon. As to the Russian aircraft, it largely depends....I think one ends up buying a 5-6 times Russian spares than American spares....at least that is what I've seen with the F-6/F-7 fleets compared to the F-16s for PAF.

Cheers !!!