Limited War Possible: Indian Army Chief Kapoor

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Gen Kapoor made only a reiterated statement already made by home minister. There is nothing into it. India has never been known as aggressor. India would only react unlike erstwhile PA General.

For the umpteenth time, your statement is utterly false given that India was the aggressor and initiator of hostilities in both 1971 (East Pakistan) and 1984 (Siachen).

And India did much the same as Pakistan in 1947 (Kashmir) by invading Hyderabad and Junagadh to annex them to India.

The idea of 'India has never been an aggressor' is nothing but a fairytale - propaganda fed to Indians to denigrate Pakistan and paint India in a 'holier than though' light.

 

[third eye]

[/COLOR]

For the umpteenth time, your statement is utterly false given that India was the aggressor and initiator of hostilities in both 1971 (East Pakistan) and 1984 (Siachen).

And India did much the same as Pakistan in 1947 (Kashmir) by invading Hyderabad and Junagadh to annex them to India.

The idea of 'India has never been an aggressor' is nothing but a fairytale - propaganda fed to Indians to denigrate Pakistan and paint India in a 'holier than though' light.

AM,

At the cost of digressing from the topic,look at this :

J&K ( 1947). Even before the 1st Indian troops reached Srinagar, Pk had sent in its army + tribals in an attempt to capture the state. It was partially successful in obtaining what is called ' Azad" Kashmir. The rest is history whose after effects we all are facing in our daily lives.

1965 ( Op Gibraltar). Ayub sent in troops in J&K in the vain hope that the local would ' rise' & the state would fall.

Now, Hyderabad ( Op Polo 1948) & Junagadh ( date ?)took place after J&K ( 1947).

Bangladesh took place after Op Gibraltar. Only, this time round the locals did ' rise' not in India's favour but for themselves and for good reason too.

Who invaded whom 1st ? India as would now seem has merely paid Pk back in the same coin and taken a leaf from the Pk book .

 

[TOPGUN]

[/COLOR]

AM,

At the cost of digressing from the topic,look at this :

J&K ( 1947). Even before the 1st Indian troops reached Srinagar, Pk had sent in its army + tribals in an attempt to capture the state. It was partially successful in obtaining what is called ' Azad" Kashmir. The rest is history whose after effects we all are facing in our daily lives.

1965 ( Op Gibraltar). Ayub sent in troops in J&K in the vain hope that the local would ' rise' & the state would fall.

Now, Hyderabad ( Op Polo 1948) & Junagadh ( date ?)took place after J&K ( 1947).

Bangladesh took place after Op Gibraltar. Only, this time round the locals did ' rise' not in India's favour but for themselves and for good reason too.

Who invaded whom 1st ? India as would now seem has merely paid Pk back in the same coin and taken a leaf from the Pk book .

Where did you come up with these fairytales ? home work time for you boss

 

[third eye]

Where did you come up with these fairytales ? home work time for you boss

Could you kindly refute them with facts Pls.

Since I do not wish to derail this thread, you could PM them to me or open a fresh thread .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

[/COLOR]

AM,

At the cost of digressing from the topic,look at this :

J&K ( 1947). Even before the 1st Indian troops reached Srinagar, Pk had sent in its army + tribals in an attempt to capture the state. It was partially successful in obtaining what is called ' Azad" Kashmir. The rest is history whose after effects we all are facing in our daily lives.

Not very different than what India did by militarily occupying and then annexing Hyderabad and Junagadh.

1965 ( Op Gibraltar). Ayub sent in troops in J&K in the vain hope that the local would ' rise' & the state would fall.

Now, Hyderabad ( Op Polo 1948) & Junagadh ( date ?)took place after J&K ( 1947).

Bangladesh took place after Op Gibraltar. Only, this time round the locals did ' rise' not in India's favour but for themselves and for good reason too.

Who invaded whom 1st ? India as would now seem has merely paid Pk back in the same coin and taken a leaf from the Pk book .

I believe Indian forces entered Junagadh in 1947, though it hardly matters - J7K, Junagadh and Hyderabad were not related. If you believe Pakistan to have been wrong in J&K, you should not have done the same yourself.

Secondly, Operation Gibraltar was the result of Indian delaying tactics and eventual unilateral annexation of J&K in violation of her commitment to the UNSC resolutions - it was in dispute territory.

India's support for terrorists in East Pakistan was the destabilization of sovereign undisputed territory - there is a huge difference.

Beyond that leave the issue alone since it is off topic.

Finally, none of your arguments refutes my point about India being the aggressor on multiple occasions, and that GP's assertion is patently false.

 

[third eye]

Beyond that leave the issue alone since it is off topic.

Finally, none of your arguments refutes my point about India being the aggressor on multiple occasions, and that GP's assertion is patently false.

Agreed, we cud discuss this some place else.

Had no intention to contest GP's assertion - just to state facts which stand as they are.

 

[toxic_pus]

Not very different than what India did by militarily occupying and then annexing Hyderabad and Junagadh.

I believe Indian forces entered Junagadh in 1947, though it hardly matters - J7K, Junagadh and Hyderabad were not related. If you believe Pakistan to have been wrong in J&K, you should not have done the same yourself.

Given that Junagad/Hyderabad gambit was used by Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan at the UN, and yet couldn't make any headway, it should give a hint of the argument's inherent flaw.

Considering that Kashmir shared boundaries with both the countries, India was indeed an interested party all along. Military action by Pakistan, in the garb of tribal infiltration, even before the ruler had decided on the matter of accession, was therefore an act of unilateralism. This was contrary to Junagad/Hyderabad situation.

Secondly, Operation Gibraltar was the result of Indian delaying tactics and eventual unilateral annexation of J&K in violation of her commitment to the UNSC resolutions - it was in dispute territory.

Firstly, Kashmir was (is) a disputed territory which as per UN mandate is required to be administered by the respective countries that held the territories. Secondly, if India's annexation of Kashmir was violation of UNSC resolutions, so was Pakistan's annexation of Northern Areas and gift of Kashmir to China. Thirdly, by launching Operation Gibraltar, Pakistan first violated the cease fire agreement, which required standstill at the LoC, and then, violated India's right of administration of Kashmir, pending plebiscite.

If Pakistan is justified in conducting 'Operation Gibraltar', it only confirms that Pakistan is a hypocritical, unreliable, irresponsible, irredentist state, which would not hesitate to resort to military solution if something doesn't suite its fancy.

India's support for terrorists in East Pakistan was the destabilization of sovereign undisputed territory - there is a huge difference.

And supporting Naga and Mizo terrorism circa 66-70, via East Pakistan, was not 'destabilization of sovereign undisputed territory'.

That aside, stoking terrorism in Kashmir is a blatant violation of UN writ, the very writ you swear by every now and then.

 

[DavyJones]

Siachen 1984 - the boundary between India and Pakistan was not defined at Siachen. So technically India did not violate any border agreement.

 

[mosnsg]

For the umpteenth time, your statement is utterly false given that India was the aggressor and initiator of hostilities in both 1971 (East Pakistan) and 1984 (Siachen).

And India did much the same as Pakistan in 1947 (Kashmir) by invading Hyderabad and Junagadh to annex them to India.

The idea of 'India has never been an aggressor' is nothing but a fairytale - propaganda fed to Indians to denigrate Pakistan and paint India in a 'holier than though' light.

Your statements are a result of not only outright ignorance, but also of ignorance born out of fifty years of misconstrued history, made by the zia regime/military.

You and your post 1960 born pakistanis need to read the following for the truth of pakistan and the 4 lost wars with India

And even if the pakistanis read the following and know the truth they will not accept the truth, doesnt matter, only the pakistanis belive that india started all wars and pakistan won all of them keep beliving and be happy.

The world sees the opposite, dosent make any difference we indians are doing gr8 and r happy and also happy to see the state of pakistan and the direction in which its going.

KK Aziz: The Murder of History

A. H. Nayyar and Ahmad Salim: The Subtle Subversion: sdpi.org/whats_new/reporton/State%20of%20Curr&TextBooks.pdf

Interesting: Ex-Pak Air Marshal Nur Khan: dawn.com/2005/09/06/nat2.htm

Interesting: Ex-Pak Air Marshal Asghar Khan: dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-from-an-old-warrior-hs-04

 

[Zohaib786]

LOL the good old cold star strategy.... India dreams that its Isreal and Pakistan is Hamas....... That it will completely annialate pakistan while pakistan just has home made rockets and a few ak -47s. Pakistan has got alot up its sleave id love india to one day try its cold war strategy... Pakistan can deploy all the manpower it has available against india.... Can India really move corps or whatever it has away from the Chinese border?.....India would be the aggressor in such move you think Pakistans 300 000 men on that border are going to lie down for your tanks and soldiers and just clap? ..... Pakistan is soo swift purchasing arms with however little funds without making public dramas out of it. Indian cold start plans to split pakistan into two.... Pakistan has a specific central corps consisting of near enough 200 000 men just waiting for such a move. Every gun missile or whatever pakistan has points at India .... India has also got other hostile neighbours to think about to.... Sluggish nuclear weapons? theyl be ready in 15 if they have to. Pakistan is no stupid country your really telling me an army that has generals trained in the best millitary schools in the world in America and Britian have no plan at all to counter such strategy.... that pakistan is not specifically buying armour and weaponary to counter such a thing? This is just stupidness ..... fair enough you got more manpower and quantity in arms but pakistan doesnt have over 1.5 million personnal in its forces to fall like flys.

 

[deckingraj]

LOL the good old cold star strategy.... India dreams that its Isreal and Pakistan is Hamas....... That it will completely annialate pakistan while pakistan just has home made rockets and a few ak -47s. Pakistan has got alot up its sleave id love india to one day try its cold war strategy...

That would be stupid of IA if they think like this...and be rest assured they do not...

Pakistan can deploy all the manpower it has available against india.... Can India really move corps or whatever it has away from the Chinese border?.....

No India cannot and will not...However our doctorine talks about maintaining resources on two borders...I am sure you are aware that we did keep some spare to keep an eye on China border even during 71 war...So it should not be a surprise and something that has been well accounted for..

India would be the aggressor in such move you think Pakistans 300 000 men on that border are going to lie down for your tanks and soldiers and just clap?

Well depends on what circumstances India(if ever) made the move.....Any Mumbai like incident will put lot of pressure on Pakistan and international sympathy will be with India........Also cold start strategy(if i understood properly) don't recommend going for all out war but to take care of strategic values(for example like terrorist camps etc etc)...It's the Pakistani reaction that will lead to all out war..and in fact that's where i see the flaw because we are assuming too much about international pressure and limited Pakistan response...

..... Pakistan is soo swift purchasing arms with however little funds without making public dramas out of it.....

Well good for you...As far as Indian purchasing is going on i am happy the way so called public drama is on...

Indian cold start plans to split pakistan into two....

I missed this part...Care to explain more on this please...

Pakistan has a specific central corps consisting of near enough 200 000 men just waiting for such a move. Every gun missile or whatever pakistan has points at India .... India has also got other hostile neighbours to think about to....

Good for you...but tell me just below you are boasting about your Generals trained in best military schools...Where do you think IA generals have learnt their lessons from??? In other words don't you think they also would have accounted for all the above that you mentioned???

Sluggish nuclear weapons? theyl be ready in 15 if they have to. Pakistan is no stupid country your really telling me an army that has generals trained in the best millitary schools in the world in America and Britian have no plan at all to counter such strategy.... that pakistan is not specifically buying armour and weaponary to counter such a thing? This is just stupidness .....

You are entitled for your views...My advice don't get upset this is just a doctarine that military has prepared to account for external pressure that is put on our politicians which leave them with no choice but pull back from any military strike in Pak... The decision to go for it or not still lies with GOI...I am sure your military would also have doctarines as per your threat levels...

fair enough you got more manpower and quantity in arms but pakistan doesnt have over 1.5 million personnal in its forces to fall like flys.

And no one is saying that.... We have fought 3 and half wars and i am sure armed forces from both sides have lot of respect for each other valour and determination to protect motherland and her interests..

 

[Goodperson]

For the umpteenth time, your statement is utterly false given that India was the aggressor and initiator of hostilities in both 1971 (East Pakistan) and 1984 (Siachen).

And India did much the same as Pakistan in 1947 (Kashmir) by invading Hyderabad and Junagadh to annex them to India.

The idea of 'India has never been an aggressor' is nothing but a fairytale - propaganda fed to Indians to denigrate Pakistan and paint India in a 'holier than though' light.

Oh! I missed on your reply.

The thread was about Indian Army Generals statement. Which was for domestic consumption.

How can you deny the fact on Kargil it was act by then Pakistan General or do you want me to post sources ?

The comparison was between IA and PA generals one just issued a statement and other acted.

 

[Hulk]

This is overexhagratted, he did not gave any statement. There is a difference. He was discussing on this issue in a seminar related to issue. What people expect if Kayani is discussing this in seminar, will he say war not possible. In seminar a discussion happens and views are presented, a statement is given for some purpose. I am seeing a trend of twisting news and statements here and even after people clarifying we go on and on.

 

[eastwatch]

For the umpteenth time, your statement is utterly false given that India was the aggressor and initiator of hostilities in both 1971 (East Pakistan) and 1984 (Siachen).

And India did much the same as Pakistan in 1947 (Kashmir) by invading Hyderabad and Junagadh to annex them to India.

The idea of 'India has never been an aggressor' is nothing but a fairytale - propaganda fed to Indians to denigrate Pakistan and paint India in a 'holier than though' light.

You somehow forgot to mention the name of Sikim in the Himalayas, that India annexed. Hope, some Indian will not come up with a new proof that Sikkim invaded India, and therefore, India repulsed the attack and then made it a part and parcel of India.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

lets look to today.....india is a threat to Pakistan, but not a threat we are not prepared to deal with decisively - should war be thrust upon us.

what you need to realize is that war is not a joke. You can sit in U.S. or israel (or wherever) and make these statements; but in the end -- i dont think india will be stupid or suicidal enough to attack this nation


they talked about "surgical strikes" for months and see how far that took them