Likely VTOL/STOVL aircraft for future big LHD/aircraft carrier programs

[hyperman]

there have been several elements discussed in this thread, from using harriers or other carrier based aircraft as well as suggestions of designing a VTOL aircraft, I think all of which are fairly unrealistic.

the designing of a VTOL aircraft, especially one which Turkey isnt going to build in large numbers is prohibitively expensive, and a horrible idea, as someone mentioned, its the equivalent of designing a smart phone, with all the expenses of design and production, b/c you have a spare charger at home.

the other options mentioned are license building harriers, this is also a very bad option as for one thing, the harrier production lines have been closed for quite some time, and there are huge expenses of restarting them or creating them in another country(especially if they arent going to be produced in massive numbers), add to that other logistical and supplies elements for engine parts, this also a horrible option.

then there were others talking about getting other carrier places from other states, like russia or china, but those arent VTOP, they are STOBAR elements. and there are issues around those elements as well, about if the carrier can even support those planes.

the only other option is buying harriers from spain or Italy and modernizing them with aselsan avoinics, but then you still have the problems with spare parts, one of the reasons as to why spain and italy are looking to replace their fleets..

the only viable option that are left I can think of is the use of STOBAR UAVs, by installing arresting gear onto the turkish carrier, or try to fix the f-35 problem..

 

[Pax Ottomana]

the designing of a VTOL aircraft, especially one which Turkey isnt going to build in large numbers is prohibitively expensive, and a horrible idea, as someone mentioned, its the equivalent of designing a smart phone, with all the expenses of design and production, b/c you have a spare charger at home.

Horrible analogy. The fact of the matter is that Turkey has become one of the major global players in UAV/UCAV technology. It can certainly develop a carrier-based drone in a fashion that'd cost far less than the other options you mentioned. On top of that Turkey could export its variants and even make a profit. Acquiring F-35s is the most expensive option by far. That's why even CANADA decided to walk away from it.

 

[hyperman]

Horrible analogy. The fact of the matter is that Turkey has become one of the major global players in UAV/UCAV technology. It can certainly develop a carrier-based drone in a fashion that'd cost far less than the other options you mentioned. On top of that Turkey could export its variants and even make a profit. Acquiring F-35s is the most expensive option by far. That's why even CANADA decided to walk away from it.

umm.. I don't think you read what I wrote properly, I suggested a carrier based drone as an alternative to a VTOL aircraft such as a harrier or f-35B. Developing a UAV is not in the same league developing a full on fighter in terms of complications, and developing a VTOL(not taking about helicopters) aircraft is even more complicated, the f-35 lift fan was a very tricky thing to develop even for the US/UK, despite shared costs and experience with producing and operating harriers, and Lockheed's experience with the yakovlev 141.

also the reason canada isnt acquiring the f-35, though they might in the future, is b/c they don't see a current need, and believe that was they currently have is good enough with a few avionics upgrades.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

umm.. I don't think you read what I wrote properly, I suggested a carrier based drone as an alternative to a VTOL aircraft such as a harrier or f-35B. Developing a UAV is not in the same league developing a full on fighter in terms of complications, and developing a VTOL(not taking about helicopters) aircraft is even more complicated, the f-35 lift fan was a very tricky thing to develop even for the US/UK, despite shared costs and experience with producing and operating harriers, and Lockheed's experience with the yakovlev 141.

also the reason canada isnt acquiring the f-35, though they might in the future, is b/c they don't see a current need, and believe that was they currently have is good enough with a few avionics upgrades.

Look. A lift fan isn't some super-difficult alien technology. It's been around for a looong time. The idea has been around since at least the 50's with flying models since the 60's. Here's a huge list of STOVL aircraft for your reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VTOL_aircraft

Please do look up that link for a good overview of how old and ubiquitous this technology is. F-35 development costed so much because the Lockheed Martin loves fucking the US taxpayers and US taxpayers love getting fucked by Lockheed Martin because they confuse it with "patriotism".

 

[hyperman]

Look. A lift fan isn't some super-difficult alien technology. It's been around for a looong time. The idea has been around since at least the 50's with flying models since the 60's. Here's a huge list of STOVL aircraft for your reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VTOL_aircraft

Please do look up that link for a good overview of how old and ubiquitous this technology is. F-35 development costed so much because the Lockheed Martin loves fucking the US taxpayers and US taxpayers love getting fucked by Lockheed Martin because they confuse it with "patriotism".

I assure you, as someone who has been following the development of the f-35 for about 15 years now, the lift fan was a very complicated element, especially in terms of durability and reliability. lockheed struggled with several elements surrounding its development.

 

[UkroTurk]

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...ed-flight-deck-layout-used-by-some-aircraft-c

https://www.popsci.com/blog-network...ns-why-aircraft-carriers-are-super-dangerous/

İ must have made somebodies intrigued.
Looking forward to watching

 

[AerospaceTech]

İ must have made somebodies intrigued.
Looking forward to watching

I guess you got your no from another source. There is no chance to use harrier efficiently anymore.

 

[UkroTurk]

I guess you got your no from another source. There is no chance to use harrier efficiently anymore.

İ might have got. Was it the biggest problem of your wisdom ?Prooving something to me?

 

[AerospaceTech]

İ might have got. Was it the biggest problem of your wisdom ?Prooving something to me?

The point is realism. We need to be more realistic. We don't have big budgets for our projects, we have to use them carefully. In this case, harrier isn't an option for the modern world, modernisation of the harrier even more unrealistic.

 

[UkroTurk]

The point is realism. We need to be more realistic. We don't have big budgets for our projects, we have to use them carefully. In this case, harrier isn't an option for the modern world, modernisation of the harrier even more unrealistic.

We?
Okay i will transmit your advice to Mr.President.
Forumlarda yazıp SSM gibi havaya girmeleri yok mu öldürüyorlar beni gülmekten. Realist olacağız müsteşar bey tamam.
Forumu da kapatalım mı?

 

[AerospaceTech]

We?
Okay i will transmit your advice to Mr.President.
Forumlarda yazıp SSM gibi havaya girmeleri yok mu öldürüyorlar beni gülmekten. Realist olacağız müsteşar bey tamam.
Forumu da kapatalım mı?

We wouldn't be in charge. But we can dream more realistic projects to get some hope.
We will feed ourself with unrealistic dreams, but at the end of the day, we will get more upset than ever.
TCG Anadolu is a strategic opportunity for the Turkish Navy, it needs some different projects to be more efficient.
This type of forums are important places to demonstrate our abilities to foreign people, we need to use this chance, not to sale unrealistic dreams.

 

[AerospaceTech]

Dreaming but realistically! okay i also will transmit it to our nation, mister minister of defence.
Something else?

Forumlarda fantazi kuranlarla , yine aynı forumlarda ülkemizin kaynaklarını ve menfaatlerini koruyanların zaman ve mekan oryantasyonları arasında hiçbir fark yok. Birincisi bilinçli bir durumda hayalde olduğunu biliyor, ikincisi ise nerede ve kim olduğunu bilmeden kendini heba ediyor.
Siz merak etmeyin , burada yazılanlar ile kimse birşey yapmayacak. Olan olmuş artık.
Good luck with TCG ANADOLU.

My new fantasia is putting a battery of s400 onto deck of TCG ANADOLU and send to Libya. At least 10 Atak helis and the LHD ship would be save.

Edit: çok hırslandım iki laf daha sokmadan rahat edemiycem

İ am 100% sure that our precious aerotech specialists who have just saved Turkey's defence budget dont know difference of maintenance costs between f35b's and av8-2s .
You all would be arden supporter of av8s if Turkey have bought them. You would first be screaming ooo av8 ler kuvvet carpani kuvvet carpani.Tolga Özbek te buna dahildir.
Amma da moda oldu bu laf. Guvvet çarpanı.
You all seemed to have forgotten you were about to buy F35B! And paid money!

You can dream about S-400 and TCG Anadolu it is okay to be dream because it is impossible to make it.

I will not be supported if we decide to get some Harrier, because I know it is inefficient.
I dont care laf sokma (olmadı ama oldu bir cümle oldu). I want to see our nation on a higher level of for all aspects. I dont want to feed some building contractor because of his/her political position. I want to invest in high tech production opportunities, I want to use our valuable source for an exportable product not to build some concrete building.