Liberation War martyrs would exceed 30 lac: Mamun

[Armstrong]

You have to judge Mujib after clarifying your position regarding separation from Pakistan.

1) Do you support Bangladesh regardless Mujib or not Mujib and RAW or not RAW?
2) Do you support unified Pakistan East + West?

If you support position 1 then what Mujib did was the right thing. Reason, you need to make friends to defeat your enemy. Same thing we do with China to counter India.

If you support position 2 then everything Mujib did was a blunder. M_Saint, Md_Akmal, Luffy were known Rajakar. Al-Zakir is half Pakistani. Now you got to clear your position and disregard the opinion of this quadro.

What the heck does that mean ? To paraphrase Jinnah, 'Bangladesh is 'fait accompli' and it can never be undone !'. Having said that saying that the past is not as one-sided as Mr.Mujib and the People who worked with him would have you believe, isn't 'Betrayal of the existence of Bangladesh' ! It does exist...its there and we don't really want any reunion of any kind in Pakistan ! Partly because for some of us the wounds are still fresh because those who died or were captured in the East have still living relatives in Pakistan and partly because we realize now how big a mistake it was to go for an 'East and a West Pakistan' ! It should have been Pakistan and Bangladesh from the very start. But that said no one in Pakistan has any ill-will towards their Bangladeshi counterparts and we do appreciate that many of the assertions aimed at us had some element of truth to them; even the common Pakistani knows that and is pained by it but does the common Bangladeshi know that we weren't all butchers and rapists or that the Punjabis aren't an a bunch of uber-dominating, pompous a-holes and that one can pin everything that was ever wrong on a Punjabi's head ?

 

[Armstrong]

@ Hi english man your English and our English may not be the same. Now let's hear a comment from 3rd party. I prefer the opinion of Kalua-miah!!!! So, what I wrote in the previous paragraph,

" @ The problem was once in 1947 Bengal became the part of Pakistan, it was no match with the other parts of Pakistan. All the military installations were located at various parts of Pakistan. These were mainly on the Afghan side of the border like Noshera, Waziristan, Chirat, Abbotabad, Rawalpindi and others."

@ Can any one tell, does the above sentence means that those areas are inside Afghanistan ????????

Yaaar Akmal sahib yeh kiyaa rainbow bana deitee hain aaap...meri tou aaanki reh jaaati hain !

On the bold part, I read this in the book 'Emergence of Pakistan' written by Chaudri Muhammad Ali, an Indian Civil Servant, who had been associated with the Muslims League and in particular with Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan, during the Partition and then later as the First Secretary General to the Government of Pakistan ! He was there at the time of the Interim Government and he aided Liaquat Ali Khan in the Nawabzada's capacity of the Finance Minister and then later he was one of the members of the Steering Committee which was responsible to the Partition Council for the Administrative tasks involved in the Partition, he writes :

'Every officer was required to learn both Urdu and Bengali; his training was to be conducted in both East and West Pakistan; and he was to divide the first 10 years of his service life equally between East and West Pakistan. By these means an understanding of the social and economic conditions of both wings of the country will be gained, friendship will be formed between East and West Pakistanis, and when at a later stage in their careers, these officers were moved to the Central Government, they would know the administrative problems of the whole country and be equipped to handle them. National Unity would thus be forged through administrative integration.'

He later goes on saying : 'In the provinces, the severest shortages in personnel were to be found in East Bengal. East Pakistan had at the time of independence, only one officer in the Indian Civil Service, a few in the Indian Police, and fewer in the other Superior Services. The rest of the Muslims officers came partly from West Pakistan and partly from Muslim minority Provinces.'

He goes on talking about how and why the numbers were so low ! And then he says : In the first competitive examination held by the Pakistan Public Service Commission for recruitment to the Superior Services, forty-odd candidates qualified from East-Pakistan. Although we did not need so many, I recommended to the Prime Minister that all of them, including those who barely qualified, should be appointed so as to redress the balance as rapidly as possible. Thus, in the very first recruitment of candidates in Pakistan the number of East-Pakistani officers were several times greater than at any time before Partition. For future recruitment the Cabinet approved a plan whereby 20% would be taken on merit from the whole of Pakistan, and 40% each from West and East Pakistan. The West Pakistan quota was further subdivided between various provinces so that the educationally backward provinces could secure their due share of appointments. The system worked to the disadvantage of the candidates from Punjab but was in the best national interest. The effect of this policy can only make themselves felt over a period of time; it is impossible to redress the neglect of a century in a few years. All this was well recognized. Yet, voices of discontent soon began to be raised against the preponderance of West Pakistanis in the central government, and the entire blame for the existing imbalance was laid at the door of the central government. This unjust accusation was repeated endlessly until it became an article of faith with many in East Pakistan.'

He goes on about this and even touches on the 'Language Controversy' and Jinnah's replies towards it !

Reference : 'The Emergence of Pakistan' by Chaudri Muhammad Ali, Chapter 17 'Administrative and Political Problems of the New State' !

 

[TopCat]

What the heck does that mean ? To paraphrase Jinnah, 'Bangladesh is 'fait accompli' and it can never be undone !'. Having said that saying that the past is not as one-sided as Mr.Mujib and the People who worked with him would have you believe, isn't 'Betrayal of the existence of Bangladesh' ! It does exist...its there and we don't really want any reunion of any kind in Pakistan ! Partly because for some of us the wounds are still fresh because those who died or were captured in the East have still living relatives in Pakistan and partly because we realize now how big a mistake it was to go for an 'East and a West Pakistan' ! It should have been Pakistan and Bangladesh from the very start. But that said no one in Pakistan has any ill-will towards their Bangladeshi counterparts and we do appreciate that many of the assertions aimed at us had some element of truth to them; even the common Pakistani knows that and is pained by it but does the common Bangladeshi know that we weren't all butchers and rapists or that the Punjabis aren't an a bunch of uber-dominating, pompous a-holes that one can pin everything that was ever wrong on a Punjabis head ?

Exactly right. It should had been 2 country and Bengal should not had divided. The bone headed Bengali (Hawkish group) in 1947 did not understand, how important it was for us to have a bigger geographical area in East to have our strategic advantages as well as for economic sustainability. We were almost there if Nazimudding group could support Sohrawardy and Jinnah we could had a secular bigger Bangladesh in the east which could balance power projection in the sub continent. Mujib inherited this idea from his predecessor but 1971 war and Indian involvement to it perished this ideology for ever.

 

[Armstrong]

Exactly right. It should had been 2 country and Bengal should not had divided. The bone headed Bengali (Hawkish group) in 1947 did not understand, how important it was for us to have a bigger geographical area in East to have our strategic advantages as well as for economic sustainability. We were almost there if Nazimudding group could support Sohrawardy and Jinnah we could had a secular bigger Bangladesh in the east which could balance power projection in the sub continent. Mujib inherited this idea from his predecessor but 1971 war and Indian involvement to it perished this ideology for ever.

To the best of my knowledge it wasn't Nazimuddin or the 'Hawkish Group' as you called it, but rather the Congress and more so the Hindu Mahsabha Leader Dr.Shyamaprasad Mukherji ! Sarat Chandra Bose (Subhas's brother !) along with Suharwardy and Abul Hashim, the Secretary of the Bengal Muslim League, got together with many other Hindu Leaders on the 20th of May and a tentative agreement for a sovereign united Bengal was drawn up. (Mahatma Gandi : the Last Phase by Pyareilal Vol 2). In the same book Pyareilal quotes the Bengal Provincial Congress as follows : 'If His Majesty's Government contemplate handing over its power to the existing Government of Bengal, which is determined on the formation of Bengal into a separate sovereign State...such portions of Bengal as are desirous of remaining within the Union of India should be allowed to remain so and be formed into a separate Province within the Union of India'. In the same book yet again Pyareilal relates that 'both Nehru and Patel were against the Proposal (that of a united independent sovereign Bengal) and Mountabatten revised the Partition Plan 'to take away any option of Independence either for Bengal or for any other Province.' (Mission with Mountbatten by Alan Campbell-Johnson).

The rest as you know is history; Bengal got partitioned and Sylhet joined East Bengal by a majority of votes ! However I don't see what or how 'Nazimuddin' could have influenced when the Congress and the Mahasabha themselves weren't in favour of a sovereign, independent Bengal ! Additionally one would do well to remember that Nazimuddin enjoyed a lot of confidence of Jinnah and he wouldn't be towing a different line to Jinnah's and it is quite clear that till the very end Jinnah was against the Partition of either Bengal or the Punjab and called the subsequently Partitioned Pakistan as 'truncated and moth eaten' with many of our areas of importance in terms of resources having joined India e.g Calcutta and how important it was to the rest of the Bengal in terms of Jute production and export.

 

[Md Akmal]

To the best of my knowledge it wasn't Nazimuddin or the 'Hawkish Group' as you called it, but rather the Congress and more so the Hindu Mahsabha Leader Dr.Shyamaprasad Mukherji ! Sarat Chandra Bose (Subhas's brother !) along with Suharwardy and Abul Hashim, the Secretary of the Bengal Muslim League, got together with many other Hindu Leaders on the 20th of May and a tentative agreement for a sovereign united Bengal was drawn up. (Mahatma Gandi : the Last Phase by Pyareilal Vol 2). In the same book Pyareilal quotes the Bengal Provincial Congress as follows : 'If His Majesty's Government contemplate handing over its power to the existing Government of Bengal, which is determined on the formation of Bengal into a separate sovereign State...such portions of Bengal as are desirous of remaining within the Union of India should be allowed to remain so and be formed into a separate Province within the Union of India'. In the same book yet again Pyareilal relates that 'both Nehru and Patel were against the Proposal (that of a united independent sovereign Bengal) and Mountabatten revised the Partition Plan 'to take away any option of Independence either for Bengal or for any other Province.' (Mission with Mountbatten by Alan Campbell-Johnson).

The rest as you know is history; Bengal got partitioned and Sylhet joined East Bengal by a majority of votes ! However I don't see what or how 'Nazimuddin' could have influenced when the Congress and the Mahasabha themselves weren't in favour of a sovereign, independent Bengal ! Additionally one would do well to remember that Nazimuddin enjoyed a lot of confidence of Jinnah and he wouldn't be towing a different line to Jinnah's and it is quite clear that till the very end Jinnah was against the Partition of either Bengal or the Punjab and called the subsequently Partitioned Pakistan as 'truncated and moth eaten' with many of our areas of importance in terms of resources having joined India e.g Calcutta and how important it was to the rest of the Bengal in terms of Jute production and export.

@ iajdani and their gongs have the tendency to twist the history which had no reality on ground. I saw iajdani gave a long breath once he dreamed that Bengal was not divided. It hardly matters for him whether it is a sovereign or part of Indian union.

@ iajdani did not realize by staying with Hindus he could not make not even a single ICS (Indian Civil Service) officer from the Bengali Muslim till 1947. The Hindus of Calcutta never recognized the Bengali muslim as a true Bengali. For running the administration of East Bengal hurriedly ICS officers were called from Western Wing. I know during the initial days of Pakistan all graduates from Bengali muslims were directly taken as CSP officer without proper test. They were just being selected with mere interview.

@ Once Suharwardy made a secret pact or secret meeting with Congress and Hindu "Mahasaba" , soon it leaked out. After this incident both Congress and Muslim League bitterly criticized them. Soon, Parliamentary election were held among the Bengal legislative Assembly where Suharwardy was miserably defeated by Nazimuddin.

@ The action of Suharwardy with the leaders of Congress and Hindu "Mohsobha" was a mockery with greater muslims of East Bengal. How could they make union with India ?????????

@ This Abul Hashim, general Secretary of Bengal Muslim Leaque remained with Suharwardy at Calcutta. Soon in 1950 once a fresh riot broke out and his house was burnt he was forced to come to East Bengal.

@ And now, today great iajdani is dreaming to be part of West Bengal and blaming the greater half of Bengal Muslim Leaque (Hawkish group).

 

[TopCat]

To the best of my knowledge it wasn't Nazimuddin or the 'Hawkish Group' as you called it, but rather the Congress and more so the Hindu Mahsabha Leader Dr.Shyamaprasad Mukherji ! Sarat Chandra Bose (Subhas's brother !) along with Suharwardy and Abul Hashim, the Secretary of the Bengal Muslim League, got together with many other Hindu Leaders on the 20th of May and a tentative agreement for a sovereign united Bengal was drawn up. (Mahatma Gandi : the Last Phase by Pyareilal Vol 2). In the same book Pyareilal quotes the Bengal Provincial Congress as follows : 'If His Majesty's Government contemplate handing over its power to the existing Government of Bengal, which is determined on the formation of Bengal into a separate sovereign State...such portions of Bengal as are desirous of remaining within the Union of India should be allowed to remain so and be formed into a separate Province within the Union of India'. In the same book yet again Pyareilal relates that 'both Nehru and Patel were against the Proposal (that of a united independent sovereign Bengal) and Mountabatten revised the Partition Plan 'to take away any option of Independence either for Bengal or for any other Province.' (Mission with Mountbatten by Alan Campbell-Johnson).

The rest as you know is history; Bengal got partitioned and Sylhet joined East Bengal by a majority of votes ! However I don't see what or how 'Nazimuddin' could have influenced when the Congress and the Mahasabha themselves weren't in favour of a sovereign, independent Bengal ! Additionally one would do well to remember that Nazimuddin enjoyed a lot of confidence of Jinnah and he wouldn't be towing a different line to Jinnah's and it is quite clear that till the very end Jinnah was against the Partition of either Bengal or the Punjab and called the subsequently Partitioned Pakistan as 'truncated and moth eaten' with many of our areas of importance in terms of resources having joined India e.g Calcutta and how important it was to the rest of the Bengal in terms of Jute production and export.

Well it could had been done provided Sohrawardy given enough time and backing from the Hawkish Muslim League.

Hindu Mahashava was always against it as they were non Bengalis and did not want a Muslim Majority and Bengali Majority country where they will be marginalized. Same happened for non Bengali Muslim Leauger who did not want a Bengali State instead of a Muslim State where they have their own stick to hang around. Within the span of 21 years it is evident that those opposed the creation of united Bengal were utterly wrong and Bengali Nationalism chased them away from scene.

@ iajdani and their gongs have the tendency to twist the history which had no reality on ground. I saw iajdani gave a long breath once he dreamed that Bengal was not divided. It hardly matters for him whether it is a sovereign or part of Indian union.

@ iajdani did not realize by staying with Hindus he could not make not even a single ICS (Indian Civil Service) officer from the Bengali Muslim till 1947. The Hindus of Calcutta never recognized the Bengali muslim as a true Bengali. For running the administration of East Bengal hurriedly ICS officers were called from Western Wing. I know during the initial days of Pakistan all graduates from Bengali muslims were directly taken as CSP officer without proper test. They were just being selected with mere interview.

@ Once Suharwardy made a secret pact or secret meeting with Congress and Hindu "Mahasaba" , soon it leaked out. After this incident both Congress and Muslim League bitterly criticized them. Soon, Parliamentary election were held among the Bengal legislative Assembly where Suharwardy was miserably defeated by Nazimuddin.

@ The action of Suharwardy with the leaders of Congress and Hindu "Mohsobha" was a mockery with greater muslims of East Bengal. How could they make union with India ?????????

@ This Abul Hashim, general Secretary of Bengal Muslim Leaque remained with Suharwardy at Calcutta. Soon in 1950 once a fresh riot broke out and his house was burnt he was forced to come to East Bengal.

@ And now, today great iajdani is dreaming to be part of West Bengal and blaming the greater half of Bengal Muslim Leaque (Hawkish group).

Sohrawardy was a smart man who knew that a small part of Bengal without Calcutta can not sustain neither it could keep parity with West Pakistan. He was right in his assessment.

 

[TopCat]

History

As the Hindu-Muslim conflict escalated and the demand for a separate Muslim state of Pakistan became popular amongst Indian Muslims, the partition of India on communal lines was deemed inevitable by mid-1947. To prevent the inclusion of Hindu-majority districts of Punjab and Bengal in a Muslim Pakistan, the Indian National Congress and the Hindu Mahasabha sought the partition of these provinces on communal lines. Bengali nationalists such as Sarat Chandra Bose, Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy, Kiran Shankar Roy, Abul Hashim, Satya Ranjan Bakshi and Mohammad Ali Chaudhury sought to counter partition proposals with the demand for a united and independent state of Bengal. Ideological visions for a "Greater Bengal" also included the regions of Assam and districts of Bihar. Suhrawardy and Bose sought the formation of a coalition government between Bengali Congress and the Bengal Provincial Muslim League. Proponents of the plan urged the masses to reject communal divisions and uphold the vision of a united Bengal. In a press conference held in Delhi on April 27, 1947 Suhrawardy presented his plan for a united and independent Bengal and Abul Hashim issued a similar statement in Calcutta on April 29. A few days later, Sarat Chandra Bose put forward his proposals for a "Sovereign Socialist Republic of Bengal."


Proposal

With the support of the British governor of the Bengal province, Frederick Burrows, Bengali leaders issued the formal proposal on May 20:
Bengal would be a Free State. The Free State of Bengal would decide its relations with the rest of India.
The Constitution of the Free State of Bengal would provide for election to the Bengal Legislature on the basis of a joint electorate and adult franchise, with reservation of seats proportionate to the population among Hindus and Muslims. The seats set aside for Hindus and Scheduled Caste Hindus would be distributed amongst them in proportion to their respective population, or in such manner as may be agreed among them. The constituencies would be multiple constituencies and the votes would be distributive and not cumulative. A candidate who got the majority of the votes of his own community cast during the elections and 25 percent of the votes of the other communities so cast, would be declared elected. If no candidate satisfied these conditions, that candidate who got the largest number of votes of his own community would be elected.
On the announcement by His Majesty's Government that the proposal of the Free State of Bengal had been accepted and that Bengal would not be partitioned, the present Bengal Ministry would be dissolved. A new interim Ministry would be brought into being, consisting of an equal number of Muslims and Hindus (including Scheduled Caste Hindus) but excluding the Chief Minister. In this Ministry, Chief Minister would be a Muslim and the Home Minister a Hindu.
Pending the final emergence of a Legislature and a Ministry under the new constitutions, Hindus (including Scheduled Caste Hindus) and Muslims would have an equal share in the Services, including military and police. The Services would be manned by Bengalis.
A Constituent Assembly composed of 30 persons, 16 Muslims and 14 non-Muslims, would be elected by Muslim and non-Muslim members of the Legislature respectively, excluding Europeans.
[edit]

Failure


The Muslim League and the Congress issued statements rejecting the notion of an independent Bengal on May 28 and June 1 respectively. The Hindu Mahasabha also agitated against the inclusion of Hindu-majority areas in a Muslim-majority Bengal, while Bengali Muslim leader Khawaja Nazimuddin and Maulana Akram Khan sought the exclusion of Hindu-majority areas to establish a homogenous Muslim Pakistan. Amidst aggravating Hindu-Muslim tensions, on June 3 British viceroy Lord Louis Mountbatten announced plans to partition India and consequently Punjab and Bengal on communal lines, burying the demand for an independent Bengal.
United Bengal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


@Md. Akmal

Read some books before you start writing history which you heard from fiction of fanatics.
Sohrwardy had the vision of Siraj's Bengal which was lost in 1757.

And stop lying everywhere..

 

[Luffy 500]

Why it is so hard for everybody to understand that its AL policy till this day of greater Bengal which includes WB. That is why they call it Bengali Nationalism not Bangladeshi nationalism. Even though they have this policy yet they dont have any comprehensive plan to annex rather they hope that someday WB will find its way to reunite with greater Bangladesh. That's my understanding.

And yes some of the WB leader as I heard covertly assured Mujib that they will try to come out of India if Mujib succeed in coming out of Pakistan. But my guess was that those leaders had not much influence as Mujib himself.

And yes, Mujib always wanted to come out of Pakistan. Agartala conspiracy was not false. He even tried to make contacts with Indian leadership for help in securing his goal. Its true.

Mujib was lucky that he could secure Indian help and did not have to merge with India.

What a $hit load of crap. Goes to show how far people like you can go to cover up Awami blunders. What kind of grand delusion is that? Mujib was definitely not naive to believe in Akhand Bangla
and neither were the west bengali babus. People of west bengal are most patriotic indians
and they don't give two woot about Akhand bangla under a muslim bengal. They are indian
nationalist through and through. People of East bengal unanimously joined PAK and your Secular
bengali babus were the ones who broke up bengal. Neither nazimuddin nor fazlul haq could
do anything about it. Bengali nationalism doesn't exist. Did BAL managed to include your bengali
nationalism in the supreme court fabricated constitution. Bnagladeshi nationalism is still one of
the founding principle of the constitution idiot. Barrister mouded correctly said, no matter what
BAL can never go back to pre-75 constitution due to change in geopolitics and BD internal
situation. I would love to know if you can convince your Chakma girlfriend about bengali
nationalism.

Tell me this :
DO you support Bakshal and massacre of bangladeshis by rakki bahini?
DO you support Indo-Bangla 25 year "friendship" treaty singed in 1972?
DO you want a sovereign Akhand Bangla or Bharati Akhand Bangla?

If the answer to no.3 is the later one , then you can go to W.bengal and live happily with your
secular begali brothers. Nobody is stooping you.

 

[TopCat]

What a $hit load of crap. Goes to show how far people like you can go to cover up Awami blunders. What kind of grand delusion is that? Mujib was definitely not naive to believe in Akhand Bangla
and neither were the west bengali babus. People of west bengal are most patriotic indians
and they don't give two woot about Akhand bangla under a muslim bengal. They are indian
nationalist through and through. People of East bengal unanimously joined PAK and your Secular
bengali babus were the ones who broke up bengal. Neither nazimuddin nor fazlul haq could
do anything about it. Bengali nationalism doesn't exist. Did BAL managed to include your bengali
nationalism in the supreme court fabricated constitution. Bnagladeshi nationalism is still one of
the founding principle of the constitution idiot. Barrister mouded correctly said, no matter what
BAL can never go back to pre-75 constitution due to change in geopolitics and BD internal
situation. I would love to know if you can convince your Chakma girlfriend about bengali
nationalism.

Tell me this :
DO you support Bakshal and massacre of bangladeshis by rakki bahini?
DO you support Indo-Bangla 25 year "friendship" treaty singed in 1972?
DO you want a sovereign Akhand Bangla or Bharati Akhand Bangla?

If the answer to no.3 is the later one , then you can go to W.bengal and live happily with your
secular begali brothers. Nobody is stooping you.

Hey IDIOT, what is that blabbering about? I was giving my opinion on some question raised by Kalu. Thats solely my opinion, you buy it or not. I had not given any opinion regarding BAKSAL or post independence politics as I am not a political thug like you. You keep your thuggish stupid ideology and Bengali and Bangladeshi bickering to yourself. I dont like BAKSAL, neither I like your Military Zia neither I like any political thug like you. I am just a self made history student and try to analyze things with logic not with a$$ like you. You stupid fanatic.

 

[Luffy 500]

Hey IDIOT, what is that blabbering about? I was giving my opinion on some question raised by Kalu. Thats solely my opinion, you buy it or not. I had not given any opinion regarding BAKSAL or post independence politics as I am not a political thug like you. You keep your thuggish stupid ideology and Bengali and Bangladeshi bickering to yourself. I dont like BAKSAL, neither I like your Military Zia neither I like any political thug like you. I am just a self made history student and try to analyze things with logic not with a$$ like you. You stupid fanatic.

An expected answer from awami fanatic. with your logic judge which post reeks of fanaticism,mine or yours.

 

[Armstrong]

@ Iajdani : I've tried to quote as much as I can from reputed books written by People who lived History, the Wikipedia article that you've quoted doesn't have a single credible reference, in fact the only reference it seems to have is of something called 'the United Bengal Movement' which in turn opens up a site that isn't working anymore ! However having said that even if I take your quotations at face-value pray tell me that if the Congress (to hell with the Mahasaba) and at that the Provincial Congress and even more so both Nehru and Patel were vehemently against conceding 'an independent, sovereign united Bengal' then what could have 'Nazimuddin' possibly pulled off that neither Suharwardy nor Bose or any of the other 'Pro-Greater Bengal' individuals could have managed too ? And it goes without saying that I haven't come across anything to suggest that Nazimuddin was indeed against any proposition of an 'Independent, United Bengal' for he was a greater admirer of Jinnah and the Quaid himself has, to the best of my knowledge, supported such a proposition. All of them, including, Nazimuddin were well aware of the importance of Calcutta to East Bengal not only terms of the Muslim majority areas forming its outlier districts but also it was Bengal's only major port and the centre of its industry, commerce, communications and education. Additionally East Bengal produced the bulk of raw jute in India and all the Jute Mills were in or near Calcutta. You can well imagine Jinnah and the Muslim League's insistence on Calcutta that Patel was compelled to say in a public speech on January the 15th, 1950 : We made a condition that we could only agree to Partition if we did not loose Calcutta. If Calcutta is gone, then India is gone' (Quoted in the Madras daily 'the Hindu' on Jan, 16th, 1950) ! The reason why Calcutta was so important was that it was on the basis of this major city that Radcliffe choose to award Nadia and Mursihabad to India instead of Pakistan which means West Bengal would have been reduced to little more than Darjeelling in the North and Midnapur and the areas west of Hooghli in totality which would be little more than 10% of all Pre-Partition Bengal !

 

[kalu_miah]

It is getting clearer by the day who has the logic here and who is pushing for "Akhand Bangla" dreamland, and blaming other people as fanatic, try understanding and refuting B Raman, genius history student. Cheap deception works with illiterate masses, but it will not work with Luffy 500's generation any more, because the secret is finally out about who did what and still continue to mess up Bangladesh, getting orders from India.

 

[kalu_miah]

You have to judge Mujib after clarifying your position regarding separation from Pakistan.

1) Do you support Bangladesh regardless Mujib or not Mujib and RAW or not RAW?
2) Do you support unified Pakistan East + West?

If you support position 1 then what Mujib did was the right thing. Reason, you need to make friends to defeat your enemy. Same thing we do with China to counter India.

If you support position 2 then everything Mujib did was a blunder. M_Saint, Luffy were known Rajakar. Al-Zakir is half Pakistani. Now you got to clear your position and disregard the opinion of this quadro.

I have stated my position in many threads over and over again, if you still have not understood it, you will never understand it, intentionally so. You are just trying to paint me as a jamati razakar as what I say is moving the ground under your feet. Me or my family was never involved in politics, Jamat, BNP, Awami or otherwise. Currently I support BNP, as I see that is the only option to remove Indian agents RAWami's from the scene as they are destroying the country and its future prospects. But my position is I support secular govt. (no shariah except for family law as we have now, but full religious rights for all religions) and social democracy (welfare society rather than unbridled capitalism), just like Awami League and I would hope that BNP moves more in that direction, so we can work better with Buddhist neighbors in ASEAN (excluding Burma). But I do not support being friendly with a majority Hindu India who have been consistently trying to undermine our interest meddling in our affair. As Bangladesh is a majority Muslim nation, I do support Muslim aspirations of a global Muslim solidarity and unity, which is good for all Muslims. Jamat's Moududi was Islamist, in my opinion he was a deviant like Hassan al-Banna, Navani, Syed Qutb et al. My main problem with Awami League is that it has been a geopolitical pawn used by India since 1960's and is still being used by them to harm national interest of Bangladesh.

Bangladesh is my country, its people are my people, why should I not support it? What kind of question is that? Mujib was a pawn of Indian IB and RAW's geopolitical games. This population and this landmass can change its name from Pala, Gupta, Sena, Sultanate of Bangalah, Subah Bangalah, Bengal Presidency, East Pakistan and Bangladesh, but it always remains my people and my land.

I do not support getting back together with Pakistan, 1971 civil war blood bath caused a permanent separation, we should not try to get back together, it was a bad idea to begin with, to have two parts of the country 1200 miles apart, but that goes back to partition which is the root of all mistakes, created in another bloodbath. Who will bring those lives back, Jinnah? Mujib? But I do support improved and friendly relations with Pakistan, as we are after all 2nd and 3rd largest Muslim countries of the world.

Mujib never wanted to create Bangladesh, he wanted federalized autonomy, but his underlings, the hard core 4 khalifa led by Tajuddin, I think were RAW conduits, and it was India's intention since 1960's to break Pakistan and create Bangladesh through its infiltrated RAW agents in Awami League, so it can secure its North East states and also have weaker neighbors on its both sides. The false and absurd dream of united Bengal was broken in Bongo Vongo in 1905, so all this was wild goose chase (after Radcliffe border was drawn in 1947) by Suhrawardy and his followers Mujib. IB and RAW used it as a dangling carrot (since 1960's) in front of them to confuse these "useful idiots" in Awami League and it is funny that people like you are still pushing this silly line. None of these leaders understood geopolitics. Ask Indian Bengali's from West Bengal, Roybot, Labong and others, if they want a united Bengal dreamland, ask the North East states posters, if they want to unite with Bangladesh and ask the other Indian's in Indian "mainland" about your united Bengal dreamland including the Northeast, they will be ready to nuke you, if you take actions for that stupid goal.

If I were in Mujib's position, I would never shake hand with the 800 year old enemy since Khilji's time and allow enemy agents to infiltrate my own political party. We are still paying for that handshake and help Mujib got from the enemy. Instead of creating the RAW instigated civil war, I would try to find an amicable way to get a separation over time, without getting India involved in it. Many countries in the world went through amicable separation, Czechs and Slovaks are a recent example and they have wonderful mutual relations now. West Pakistan sitting 1200 miles away could never keep East Pakistan against its will, if we didn't want to stay together, with or without India's help.

Bottom line Bangladesh is still heavily infiltrated with enemy RAW agents, and one of their favorite technique is to cry jamati razakar, whenever their game is exposed.

And since you are labeling people, that gives me the excuse also to finally identify the confused false patriots Zabaniya, iajdani, eastwatch, Capt. Planet, baldfish, fallstuff these so far. Whether they are RAW agents or have Awami connection or not, I have no information, but watch out whenever they open their mouth or hit their keyboard.

 

[kalu_miah]

P.S You'd be surprised to know that both Iqbal and Jinnah talked about something they called 'Islamic Socialism' ! In fact in one of Iqbal's Poems he says, metaphorically, that 'those fields that don't provide (equitable) livelihood to the Farmer burn every mound of wheat there in' ! In fact a translation of it is as follows :

Farman-e-Khuda

Uttho Mere Duniya Ke Gareebon Ko Jaga Do!!
Kaakh-e-Umra Ke Dar-o-Deewaar Hila Do!!

Rise up and awaken the poor of My world!
Shake the doors & walls of the mansions of the great

Garmao Ghulaamon Ka Lahoo Soz-e-Yakeen Se;
Kunjishk Ke Firomaya Ko Shaheen Se Lada Do!!

Heat the blood of slaves with the burn of complete Faith.
Level the humbleness of the Sparrow with the fearless Falcon.

Sultani-o-Jamhoor Ka Aata Hai Zamaana;
Jo Naqsh-e-Kohan Tumko Nazar Aaye Mita Do!!

The reign of monarchy and Democracy is coming.
Remove any sign of archaism (old kind of system) you come across.

Jis Khet Se Dehkaan Ko Muyassar Nahi Rozi;
Uss Khet Ke Har Koshah-e-Gandum Ko Jala Do!!

The field which doesn't yield a livelihood to farmers;
Burn every stack of wheat from that field.

Kyun Khaaliq-o-Makhlooq Mein Haayal Rahen Parde?
Peeran-e-Kaleesa Ko Kaleesa Se Utha Do!!

Why should there be veils between the Creator & His creations?
Remove all the intermediary priests from the worship places.

Haq Ra Ba-Sajoode, Sanaman Ra Ba-Tawaafe
Behtar Hai, Charagh-e-Haram-o-Dair Bujha Do!!

For Truth you do prostration, for idols you do circumambuluation.
It is better to remove light from all the holy places.

Main Na-Khush-o-Bezaar Hoon Mar Mar Ki Silon Se;
Mere Liye Mitti Ke Haram Aur Bana Do!!

I am unhappy and dissatisfied with slabs of marble;
Build another 'Haram' (Kaaba) out of 'mud' for me!

Tehzeeb-e-Navi Kaargah-e-Sheesha Garaan Hai
Aadaab-e-Junoon Shayar-e-Mashriq Ko Sikha Do!!

The contemporary culture is burdensome as a workshop of brittle glass!
Teach the poet of the East, poetry filled with passion!!

Heres a rock rendition of the same by 'Laal' a rock-band in Pakistan :

I hope I did not hurt anyone with my comment. Whenever we approach this unpleasant subject and we are covering the past history, we have to do justice and be respectful to the people who had to make the ultimate sacrifice. I have no ill feelings towards Pakistani people for the actions of a few. We should try to improve relations as Muslim brother nations whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Nice songs and poetry.

About socialism, guess what Mujib did in the name of socialism, he nationalized all factories and made all his party operatives the management in these factories. Then all these factories were looted from inside and most of these viable enterprises eventually went bankrupt because of corruption and mismanagement. This happened during his rule 1972-1975.

As far as govt. system goes, I personally prefer Social Democracy, but unless a society is developed, it is difficult to implement this system in a poor country, mainly because of the poor quality of human resources. My main preference is for democracy and democratization, at party level initially in poorer countries and mass direct democracy for wealthier countries. In a democracy if people want to keep some religious flavor in their govt., as it happens in many European countries and in Turkey, then that is their business and right, as long as minority rights are ensured. So the "Islamic" part depends on the people and their desire. Unbridled capitalism is bad for people and the planet, specially in the rich countries.

 

[kalu_miah]

@ Hi english man your English and our English may not be the same. Now let's hear a comment from 3rd party. I prefer the opinion of Kalu-miah!!!! So, what I wrote in the previous paragraph,

" @ The problem was once in 1947 Bengal became the part of Pakistan, it was no match with the other parts of Pakistan. All the military installations were located at various parts of Pakistan. These were mainly on the Afghan side of the border like Noshera, Waziristan, Chirat, Abbotabad, Rawalpindi and others."

@ Can any one tell, does the above sentence means that those areas are inside Afghanistan ????????

You did mention "various parts of Pakistan" in the previous sentence, but if one is looking at "on Afghan side of the border" without context, then it can mean inside Afghanistan. What you actually meant to say was probably "near the border with Afghanistan".