Lessons and observations for pakistani nation

[villageidiot]

I honestly believe a very extreme law against corruption should be implemented where people truly fear it because honestly it is stuck deep into our roots and plaguing us, we must yank it out with force.

Any form of corruption at an institutional level by government officials should be a very extreme law. Surrender 90% assets with perhaps 10 year jail term or death penalty. Something!

@TNT @ziaulislam Possible or not? Because something that has seeped very deep into society must be yanked out with extreme measures - talking is not enough, discouraging is not enough. We need tangible strict laws.

Is it not the severity of the punishment but the certainty of it, that deters crime

The white man made laws every conceivable crime, even corruption. But who will bell the cat.
A particularly enlightening example: I heard that by law, when you construct a building, you have to ensure adequate access to sunlight and air for your neighbors, otherwise you run afoul the law.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Stereotype men to be dirty pervert pigs?

A bunch of men are dirty, pervert pigs
Men will only realize it when their women loved ones experience shit like that

 

[Erieye]

I am all for whatever methods make a positive impact for this country

A bunch of men are dirty, pervert pigs...

 

[TheSolution]

Is it not the severity of the punishment but the certainty of it, that deters crime

Both I'd say

WHO IS GOING TO ESTABLISH THE WRIT OF LAW?

 

[villageidiot]

Stereotype men to be dirty pervert pigs?

#NotAllMen

On a serious note, no sir, but just prioritize harassment (stringent laws, separate model courts), make the dispensation of justice more quicker and more accessible. Necessitate CCTV cameras etc.

Something. Anything. There are smarter people than me whose job it is to come up with these things. Point is, it's a big issue with serious ramification for the economy.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

I honestly believe a very extreme law against corruption should be implemented where people truly fear it because honestly it is stuck deep into our roots and plaguing us, we must yank it out with force.

Any form of corruption at an institutional level by government officials should be a very extreme law. Surrender 90% assets with perhaps 10 year jail term or death penalty. Something!

@TNT @ziaulislam Possible or not? Because something that has seeped very deep into society must be yanked out with extreme measures - talking is not enough, discouraging is not enough. We need tangible strict laws.

No no no please. Instead push through a law criminalizing anyone questioning the corrupt.

 

[villageidiot]

A bunch of men are dirty, pervert pigs
Men will only realize it when their women loved ones experience shit like that

Tbh, I don't think it would make a difference to most of them if it happened to their female loved ones. Besides, they don't deserve to suffer for someone else's sins.

No no no please. Instead push through a law criminalizing anyone questioning the corrupt.

If everyone is corrupt, no one is

 

[Erieye]

We need to take it one step at a time - the biggest problem with this country right now holding it back, and holding back other things from being addressed - is the corruption, nepotism and lack of meritocracy.

How can we curtail this and implement strict laws against corruption/nepotism, and enforce the policy of meritocray?

@ziaulislam @villageidiot @Meengla @Maula Jatt

everything else can be addressed after.

 

[ziaulislam]

L

We need to take it one step at a time - the biggest problem with this country right now holding it back, and holding back other things from being addressed - is the corruption, nepotism and lack of meritocracy.

How can we curtail this and implement strict laws against corruption/nepotism, and enforce the policy of meritocray?

@ziaulislam @villageidiot @Meengla @Maula Jatt

everything else can be addressed after.

Laws are established by people
Unless people believe in the above you can't implement law.

For now people geniunely don't believe in merit.
They believe in religion, bradery and connections first

 

[Meengla]

3- Decline of beaurocracy in Pakistan is something everyone talk about however my take (and my father take) is completely different..I think it was simply because most of beaurocracy were indians/mahjirs and that generation retried ..!! The current generation is local and corrupt and lazy.

You are going to get burned here for saying so--but something like that was also said by Moeed Pirzada recently when he discussed Musharraf's death: According to Moeed, Musharraf was basically a progressive and a liberal because of his 'urban' background; a background Moeed thinks is conducive to change and progress. And a background which the Urdu Speakers brought from India into a feudal society which was--and except for pockets in urban Punjab--is still feudal.

You know how Zimbabwe collapsed under Mogabe?? By expelling its White population. Similar is the case in Uganda and South Africa though skin color might change. As much as one despises colonialism, it is to be understood unless and until 'the locals' are ready, there will be consequences. And unfortunately for a nation like Pakistan, which is already in a very difficult geopolitical environment unlike South Africa, Uganda or Zimbabwe, the consequences are longer lasting and dire.

 

[ziaulislam]

You are going to get burned here for saying so--but something like that was also said by Moeed Pirzada recently when he discussed Musharraf's death: According to Moeed, Musharraf was basically a progressive and a liberal because of his 'urban' background; a background Moeed thinks is conducive to change and progress. And a background which the Urdu Speakers brought from India into a feudal society which was--and except for pockets in urban Punjab--is still feudal.

You know how Zimbabwe collapsed under Mogabe?? By expelling its White population. Similar is the case in Uganda and South Africa though skin color might change. As much as one despises colonialism, it is to be understood unless and until 'the locals' are ready, there will be consequences. And unfortunately for a nation like Pakistan, which is already in a very difficult geopolitical environment unlike South Africa, Uganda or Zimbabwe, the consequences are longer lasting and dire.

Yes, I never thought of this untill My father bought it up.
He told me that Pakistan was standing because of British and indians dispora and those were the most ethical people he saw during his Early education in 1950s..afterwards it was all trash

 

[Meengla]

We need to take it one step at a time - the biggest problem with this country right now holding it back, and holding back other things from being addressed - is the corruption, nepotism and lack of meritocracy.

How can we curtail this and implement strict laws against corruption/nepotism, and enforce the policy of meritocray?

@ziaulislam @villageidiot @Meengla @Maula Jatt

everything else can be addressed after.

Political stability!!!
Corruption/Nepotism is endemic in 3rd world countries. Once I saw up to 1/3rd of India's parliamentarians were involved in corruption or other legal issues. But they have the political stability and continuity of policies after the turmoil of late 1980s in their political environment. And as of late, Mr. Modi is a true gift to India!!!

 

[villageidiot]

We need to take it one step at a time - the biggest problem with this country right now holding it back, and holding back other things from being addressed - is the corruption, nepotism and lack of meritocracy.

How can we curtail this and implement strict laws against corruption/nepotism, and enforce the policy of meritocray?

@ziaulislam @villageidiot @Meengla @Maula Jatt

everything else can be addressed after.

Imho, I don't think corruption can be solved by making laws etc. It's a gradual process that'll likely take decades provided we get on track (we are not as of yet) and stay the course.
It certainly won't be solved by making Imran khan prime minister.

Regarding the other point, there is corruption in india as well but they have a stronger (not saying by size) economy and better education etc. We can't sit and wish corruption away while putting important things like the participation of women in the workforce on the backburner.

In the long run, I think education, economic opportunity, a vibrant private sector will lead to a change in sarkari job / rent seeking mentality and corruption.

 

[Erieye]

You are going to get burned here for saying so--but something like that was also said by Moeed Pirzada recently when he discussed Musharraf's death: According to Moeed, Musharraf was basically a progressive and a liberal because of his 'urban' background; a background Moeed thinks is conducive to change and progress. And a background which the Urdu Speakers brought from India into a feudal society which was--and except for pockets in urban Punjab--is still feudal.

You know how Zimbabwe collapsed under Mogabe?? By expelling its White population. Similar is the case in Uganda and South Africa though skin color might change. As much as one despises colonialism, it is to be understood unless and until 'the locals' are ready, there will be consequences. And unfortunately for a nation like Pakistan, which is already in a very difficult geopolitical environment unlike South Africa, Uganda or Zimbabwe, the consequences are longer lasting and dire.

Isn't there still a huge Muhajir population and similar progressive ideology pocket in Karachi?

These people we still have and they can be useful, but it comes back to nepotism, can they fairly and legitetimately reach governance positions?

 

[villageidiot]

Political stability!!!
Corruption/Nepotism is endemic in 3rd world countries. Once I saw up to 1/3rd of India's parliamentarians were involved in corruption or other legal issues. But they have the political stability and continuity of policies after the turmoil of late 1980s in their political environment. And as of late, Mr. Modi is a true gift to India!!!

Political stability and continuity are certainly very helpful but not the panacea. They worked for modi's india and hasina's BD but not for numerous african and middle eastern countries.