Lessons and observations for pakistani nation

[ziaulislam]

I’m pretty sure that we can fix the bureaucracy if we put performance standards in place and fire people if they don’t meet them. Also make the bureaucracy completely merit based. If we want to have quotas, have them in the army only. I don’t think the bureaucracy went south due to lack of muhajjirs, it’s jus that initially, some of it was merit based, after Bhutto, it was not.

By the way, I don’t think that our inefficient bureaucracy is the sole problem. I think the bigger problem than that even is our political economy. People think they deserve subsidies that are broad and untargeted. They want gas to be available, not have shortages but to be significantly lower than international market prices. It’s absurd.

Moving to a market based economy will do wonders. Then having functional civilian institutions by merit only based admissions will help too.

Finally, our leftist, so called enlightened folks, so called liberals need to sit down and read the objectives resolution. And either decide whether they want to accept Jinnahs legacy of wanting and Islamic democracy or not. Because whatever this is, this multiethnic hoshposh stew is not gonna work.

We have some smart beaucrats as well but no honest beurocrats with zero work ethics.

Corruption is bigger issue then skill here

...work is also needed to remove the idiotic idea in every pakistanis mind that govt job is the way to go. engineers, doctors, all of them waste years of their lives trying to get into a govt job, they prefer to sit jobless then do something productive. all lazy asses want things handed to them without working for it. all lazy asses want govt cars, bungalows, protocol, power etc. this how 99% of people applying for govt jobs, and even military think like these days.

Govt job is the way due to perks you get.
I.e corruption..
Why do people want govt jobs because it gives you an opportunity to do Massive amounts of corruption..
Worse case scenario is you will do less corruption lol noone has ever been punished for corrupt practice


From chaprase to doctor everyone skims the system as much as they can

 

[ziaulislam]

19- pakistani are generally intolerant ans racist leading to low investment or movement of people.

 

[villageidiot]

Also to add one more dimension here is Pakistan has complete disenfranchised women from the wok force. Young females, about 20m are completely out of the workforce through some weird cultural norms (not religious). Pakistan needs to really break free from the shackles of this desi culture.

THIS
Half our workforce is made to sit at home. My family is all educated. (I am the least educated of them ) and my sister has the highest level of education, MS Economics and Finance (and is the brightest) of us all but my father made her get a measly teaching job (tenth grade English) in our area (gt road but no opportunities at all) for 5 years and now's she burnt out. Out of a job with no relevant experience and no future, no financial security. Like most women in Pakistan. there is a significant chance she'll probably be wed to some toxic, insecure man and the rest is history.

There's problems for women at every turn. Education, transport, employment, rishta/susraal, phuphian , the works.

I thought I was the only one that noticed this!

Nope. This is well acknowledged among Punjabis. Pushtun's have a lot of hotels in my area. Pushtun laborers are hired when you want to get the job done and the punjabi laborer can't be bothered to get of his a*s, whenever you are not on the scene.

So yeah, sitting on our lazy asses, we like to admire Pushtun migrants working their butts off.

 

[Menace2Society]

We should have been 1st world developed by now.

Pakistan doesn't even have a 1 mile radius developed city centre, the bare minimum. What are you guy doing over there?

 

[Maula Jatt]

THIS
Half our workforce is made to sit at home. My family is all educated. (I am the least educated of them ) and my sister has the highest level of education, MS Economics and Finance (and is the brightest) of us all but my father made her get a measly teaching job (tenth grade English) in our area (gt road but no opportunities at all) for 5 years and now's she burnt out. Out of a job with no relevant experience and no future, no financial security. Like most women in Pakistan. there is a significant chance she'll probably be wed to some toxic, insecure man and the rest is history.

There's problems for women at every turn. Education, transport, employment, rishta/susraal, phuphian , the works.

Pakistani women don't deserve us tbh, makes me sad

My sister is MS mathematics and Bsc double major in both economics and mathematics - right after her degree she was married off and now does nothing except for taking care of her kids
My wife is also highly educated, her degree is tougher to do than mine, but she isn't working either probably because of societal pressures (not from me but probably from my parents or her's, general society talking crap, idk)

 

[villageidiot]

Pakistani women don't deserve us tbh, makes me sad

My sister is MS mathematics and Bsc double major in both economics and mathematics - right after her degree she was married off and now does nothing except for taking care of her kids

My wife is also highly educated, her degree is tougher to do than mine, but she isn't working either probably because of societal pressures (not from me but probably from my parents or her's, general society talking crap, idk)

The worst part is, like @Olympus81 pointed out, it's stupid cultural mores with no religious basis (that we like to attribute it to) at all for this madness.

And there's absolutely no efforts on the authorities part ever to provide any help either. I always wondered why there isn't a market for Vespa in Pakistan, like in India. Even when the family is supportive of a women in pursuit of education of employement, transport is one of the biggest issues. Then you read things like ishaq dar turning away Vespa company because he asked for too much kickbacks. (Javed ch quoting bajwa's conversation with Italian ambassador and NATO general pontecorvo)

Almost all our women live unfulfilling lives. Imagine how it feels not to have a say, your entire life. to live on the mercy of your father, brother, husband and then sons, however the turn out to be. It's a very obvious and depressing reality we've put ourselves in.

 

[TNT]

We have several threads on how great pakistanis are and how genious we are, howevwr, we need some introspection and see what are short coming in our culture.

1- Pakistani lack ambition as compared to Indians..they like to settle in comfort zones.

2- second generation Pakistani overseas are doing really bad.. I mean by every metric. This matters as I rarely see Pakistani second generation physician collobrative and bringing new technology to Pakistan but seen several second generation Indians doing this in India

3- Decline of beaurocracy in Pakistan is something everyone talk about however my take (and my father take) is completely different..I think it was simply because most of beaurocracy were indians/mahjirs and that generation retried ..!! The current generation is local and corrupt and lazy.

4. Pakistanis as a whole are very lazy
Especially I see afghans working 3x harder then Pakistanis and have accumulated far more success. Most Pakistani spend money earned by hard working overseas

5. Pakistani are most tolerant people when it comes to..you guessed it .. corruption(Which isn't okay but majority here will not agree) but pretty intolerant to religion

6. Pakistani believe they are choose one in different things like ghazwa hind etc.. it seems they are new bani-israel.

7. In general Pakistani are good workers but very bad at innovation.. everyone wants to do "Sarkari nokri" good at "semi skilled working"but no innovation or own business

8. In general Pakistani are cheaters which means they have brought bad name to others. hence why there is zero trust
Indians are same but they is change though.

9. Pakistani acquities market is non existent.. meaning out industrial people have no access to liquidity

10. Pakistani military think their IQ level is higher then ordinary people.

When we were invited to donga Gali for annuals student topper conference the military guy joked we should get those cadet college people ahead since they are better trained . I guess he joked but ayub Khan was pretty adamant that civilians are idiots and he had golden generation of beaurocracy so

11. Pakistan has 28 hours in a day..as everyone watches 4 hours of news
We have more news channels then rest of the world comboned.

12. Pakistani have most heart risky diet every invented
I am surprised how we still alive.
The amount of sugar and oil Pakistani consume is mind boggling
Obesity and diabetes is rampant and it's only getting worse..may be my cardioloy practice will flourish

13. Pakistani think westeen society is about to collapse and Apocalypse is around the corner afterwards they will rule the world.

14. Pakistanis are still a confused what they want? They don't know if they want communist system or capitalist or Islamic system ..they hate communism but simulatenoualy hate people who make honest money.

15. Strong inferiority complex. We believe in peers, syed, Bhutto, sharifs and God forbids another dynasty political family may enter from Pti but not in people who are successful or follow them

16. We envy successful people but dont follow them

17. People love biryani, lassi, TikTok and PUBG.

18. Mix religion and business..
best example is I have been robbed three times in Pakistan..every time it was inside the mosque.

Your observations are spot on. The reason we r so tolerant about corruption is because we are corrupt. The whole nation is effing corrupt. We are also the world's biggest hypocrites, because we show off as religious but in reality are corrupt thieves.
In every govt office u have to pay bribe n the one u pay bribe to, will be a bearded mullah and will immediately go to mosque for prayer when he hears the azaan but will not consider that bribe as haram. The mullahs here never try to stop corruption or theft they just want u to have a beard n look like a mullah n oppress ur women and thats it. U can be a filthy thief n they will call u haji saab n shah saab and u have to just show off ur prayers n beard.

 

[ziaulislam]

Your observations are spot on. The reason we r so tolerant about corruption is because we are corrupt. The whole nation is effing corrupt. We are also the world's biggest hypocrites, because we show off as religious but in reality are corrupt thieves.
In every govt office u have to pay bribe n the one u pay bribe to, will be a bearded mullah and will immediately go to mosque for prayer when he hears the azaan but will not consider that bribe as haram. The mullahs here never try to stop corruption or theft they just want u to have a beard n look like a mullah n oppress ur women and thats it. U can be a filthy thief n they will call u haji saab n shah saab and u have to just show off ur prayers n beard.

You go to hajj as corruption thing .that's the weirdest part..
Sarkari hajjs

 

[TNT]

...work is also needed to remove the idiotic idea in every pakistanis mind that govt job is the way to go. engineers, doctors, all of them waste years of their lives trying to get into a govt job, they prefer to sit jobless then do something productive. all lazy asses want things handed to them without working for it. all lazy asses want govt cars, bungalows, protocol, power etc. this how 99% of people applying for govt jobs, and even military think like these days.

Agree, this is a cancer for our society. Especially pashtuns, these idiots will do anything for govt job n ask ppl why n they say well we will have pension n job security. Its as if we have no imaan and no belief that its Allah who provides. And how much life is left after retirement.
Also there r more opportunities of corruption in govt than in private sector, so these lazy corrupt baboons prefer govt jobs.

You go to hajj as corruption thing .that's wthe weirdest part..
Sarkari hajjs

Exactly. Like u bribe a guy with hajj. Wtf.

 

[Maula Jatt]

The worst part is, like @Olympus81 pointed out, it's stupid cultural mores with no religious basis (that we like to attribute it to) at all for this madness.

And there's absolutely no efforts on the authorities part ever to provide any help either. I always wondered why there isn't a market for Vespa in Pakistan, like in India. Even when the family is supportive of a women in pursuit of education of employement, transport is one of the biggest issues. Then you read things like ishaq dar turning away Vespa company because he asked for too much kickbacks. (Javed ch quoting bajwa's conversation with Italian ambassador and NATO general pontecorvo)

Harassment is a HUGE issue - painde's harassing lone women, men with power harassing women

Malls, amusement parks etc have to literally ban the entry of single men because of this harassment culture

Ending this harassment "culture" and transportation problems of our women would bring 50% of our population into mainstream

Almost all our women live unfulfilling lives. Imagine how it feels not to have a say, your entire life. to live on the mercy of your father, brother, husband and then sons, however the turn out to be. It's a very obvious and depressing reality we've put ourselves in.

 

[villageidiot]

Agree, this is a cancer for our society. Especially pashtuns, these idiots will do anything for govt job n ask ppl why n they say well we will have pension n job security. Its as if we have no imaan and no belief that its Allah who provides. And how much life is left after retirement.
Also there r more opportunities of corruption in govt than in private sector, so these lazy corrupt baboons prefer govt jobs.



Exactly. Like u bribe a guy with hajj. Wtf.

I think you are a pashtun you get to say that but as a Punjabi, I hate to break it to you. it's the same over here.

Job security and pension is the biggest reason for the appeal of govt job. The opportunities for corruption come naturally when you are in the position.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

The country keeps getting crazier and crazier. I think even banana republics don't operate like this.

Holding polls in Punjab ‘difficult task’ until operation against militants is over, IG tells ECP

Says police operation will be completed in four to five months, terrorism on the rise in province.

www.dawn.com

 

[TheSolution]

I honestly believe a very extreme law against corruption should be implemented where people truly fear it because honestly it is stuck deep into our roots and plaguing us, we must yank it out with force.

Any form of corruption at an institutional level by government officials should be a very extreme law. Surrender 90% assets with perhaps 10 year jail term or death penalty. Something!

@TNT @ziaulislam Possible or not? Because something that has seeped very deep into society must be yanked out with extreme measures - talking is not enough, discouraging is not enough. We need tangible strict laws.

 

[villageidiot]

Harassment is a HUGE issue - painde's harassing lone women, men with power harassing women

Malls, amusement parks etc have to literally ban the entry of single men because to this harassment culture

Ending this harassment "culture" and transportation problems of our women would bring 50% of our population into mainstream

Yes, our issues are very much interlinked. Banda kithe jaye.

Everything comes back to lack of policing and provision of justice.

It's a crazy idea but I think a little reverse sexism could do us some good here. #MeToo style.
We all know the quality of insaaf here but if you create special courts, relax burden of proof for women maybe and ensure strict punishments, I think room for women in public sphere will be better. Any harasser (and men in general , will be mindful of their actions in public and workplaces )

It's not like we have a courtship or dating culture here anyway so not much to lose in terms of general interactions between men and women in public.

 

[Erieye]

It's a crazy idea but I think a little reverse sexism could do us some good here. #MeToo style.

Stereotype men to be dirty pervert pigs?