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Leopard 2A7+ for Saudi Arabia

Well, all books and specialized sited I have read suggest that Leopard is the most protected tank:


Protection
The Leopard 2 uses spaced, multi-layered composite armour throughout the design. The Leopard 2A5 and A6 models have additional armour added to the turret front, and on the hull and side skirts. Estimated levels of protection for the Leopard 2 range from 590 - 690 RHAe on the turret, 600 RHAe on the glacis and lower front hull on the Leopard 2A4, to 920 - 940 RHAe on the turret, 620 RHAe on the glacis and lower front hull on the Leopard 2A6 against kinetic projectiles. The mine-protected Leopard 2A4M and 2A6M adds an additional mine protection plate for the belly, which increases protection against mines and improvised explosive devices.[6] All Leopard 2 variants after the Leopard 2A6 include spall liners on the inside of the tank, protecting the crew. The Leopard 2A6M CAN increases protection against rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) by including additional slat armour.
Two groups of 4 Wegmann 76 mm smoke mortars are mounted on either side of the turret and can be electrically fired either as single rounds or in salvos of four are mounted on most Leopard 2 models, with the exception of Dutch Leopard 2s, which are instead equipped with a Dutch-designed smoke mortar system with six barrels on each side. Swedish Leopard 2s utilize French GALIX smoke dispensers, similar to the system found on the French Leclerc.
The crew is also protected against Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) threats, as the Leopard 2 is equipped with a NBC overpressurization system which provides up to 4 mbar (0.004 kp/cm2) over-pressure inside the vehicle.
The Leopard 2 is equipped with a fire protection system. Four 9 kg Halon fire extinguisher bottles are installed on the right behind the driver's station. The bottles are connected to pipes and hoses and are activated automatically by the fire detection system, when temperatures rise above 82°C (180 °F) inside the fighting compartment, or manually via a control panel in the driver's compartment. An extra 2.5 kg Halon fire extinguisher is also stored on the floor beneath the main gun.

Armament


Armament


Ammunition storage of a Leopard 2A4.
[edit]Primary
The primary armament for production versions of the Leopard 2 is the Rheinmetall 120 mm smoothbore gun, in either the L44 variant (found on all production Leopard 2s until the A5), or the L55 variant (as found on the Leopard 2A6 and subsequent models).[6] 27 rounds of the main gun ammunition are stored in a special magazine in the forward section of the hull, to the left of the driver's station, with an additional 15 rounds stored in the left side of the turret bustle, and separated from the fighting compartment by an electrically operated door.[6] If the ammunition storage area is hit, a blow-off panel in the turret roof would direct an explosion upwards away from the crew compartment.[6] The gun is fully stabilized, and can fire a variety of types of rounds, such as the German DM33 APFSDS-T anti-tank round, which is said to be able to penetrate 560 millimeters (22 in) of steel armour at a range of 2,000 metres (2,200 yd),[9] and the German DM12 multipurpose anti-tank projectile (MPAT).[10] For the L55 gun, a newer APFSDS-T round was introduced to take advantage of the longer barrel, the DM-53, which is said to be able to penetrate in excess of 810 mm of RHAe armour at a range of 2,000 meters.[6] The bore evacuator and the gun's thermal sleeve of the A4 and A5, designed to regulate the temperature of the barrel, are fabricated out of glass-reinforced plastic. The barrel has a chrome lining to increase barrel life.[11] The main gun is capable of power elevating from +20° to −9°.[12]
Rheinmetall has developed an upgrade for Leopard 2 tanks to give them the ability to fire the LAHAT anti-tank guided missile through the main gun; the missile can engage targets out to a range of 6,000 metres (20,000 ft).[13]

800px-Leopard_2A4_Munitionsbunker_Turmheck.jpg
 
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Abrams is way more difficult and expensive for maintenance
Abrams is battle proven tank, unlike Leo.

and you know why they are using DU ammunition?
Because its better.

because they can't put a 120mm/L55 gun on it.
Because L/55 gun reduces mobility and accuracy.

Abrams' turret was originally designed for 105mm rifled gun same as M60s and it can't handle the weight of the L55.
It can handle even bigger guns. Here with 140 mm:

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And Abrams' "1500hp" engine lights it on IR sights like a christmas tree it consumes three times more fuel than Leopard2 for same power output.
For thermals working in 8-12nm band there is very little difference.

Germans make best phucking tanks since the invention of it.
Just empty slogan. Lets better talk facts.
 
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I regard Saudi Arabia as a 4th world county. Pakistan and India are 3rd world countries. Iran is a 2nd world country. I am also getting reports that Saudi oil is going to dry up around 2030 so they should start planning for the rainy day.
Buying expensive weapons will not win you a war. In 1965 war both Pakistan and India were armed to the teeth with latest American and Russian weaponry, after 2 weeks fighting Pakistan used up 85% of its ammunition.
Germany fought half the world for 6 years.
A strong military would be the one which is more self sufficient. Iran makes all their weapons and upgrade them and maintain them themselves, in this regard Iran is a strong country and could out last the Saudis in any war, plus they have an endless supply of soldiers.
Israelis have a strong military not because they spend a lot, but because they are self sufficient.
Saudi should work on diversifying their economy and spending on development of indigenous weapons. They should also shorten the gaps between rich and poor, some people in Saudi are living in the middle ages.
Saudi Arabia is situated in a very dangerous area, they should get serious with their defense.

Another thing that I have noticed with Saudi spending, is that their spending is not influenced by necessity, but for making friends, The US F-15s, the Russian T90s, the European Leos. Many countries are now starting to buy friends with oil money on things that they do not need. Some deals with China are also on the cards.
 
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I regard Saudi Arabia as a 4th world county. Pakistan and India are 3rd world countries. Iran is a 2nd world country. I am also getting reports that Saudi oil is going to dry up around 2030 so they should start planning for the rainy day.
Buying expensive weapons will not win you a war. In 1965 war both Pakistan and India were armed to the teeth with latest American and Russian weaponry, after 2 weeks fighting Pakistan used up 85% of its ammunition.
Germany fought half the world for 6 years.
A strong military would be the one which is more self sufficient. Iran makes all their weapons and upgrade them and maintain them themselves, in this regard Iran is a strong country and could out last the Saudis in any war, plus they have an endless supply of soldiers.
Israelis have a strong military not because they spend a lot, but because they are self sufficient.
Saudi should work on diversifying their economy and spending on development of indigenous weapons. They should also shorten the gaps between rich and poor, some people in Saudi are living in the middle ages.
Saudi Arabia is situated in a very dangerous area, they should get serious with their defense.

Another thing that I have noticed with Saudi spending, is that their spending is not influenced by necessity, but for making friends, The US F-15s, the Russian T90s, the European Leos. Many countries are now starting to buy friends with oil money on things that they do not need. Some deals with China are also on the cards.

And I regard you as a class 6 ignorant. But then again you could research on these manners yourself. I have already put a huge amount of data on this site already.
 
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27 rounds of the main gun ammunition are stored in a special magazine in the forward section of the hull, to the left of the driver's station, with an additional 15 rounds stored in the left side of the turret bustle, and separated from the fighting compartment by an electrically operated door.[6] If the ammunition storage area is hit, a blow-off panel in the turret roof would direct an explosion upwards away from the crew compartment.[6]
Only 15 rounds in turret bustle are separated with blow off panels. 27 rounds in hull are not protected, just like old generation tanks (even less, cos old generation tank rounds have metal casing).

Abrams has all its rounds protected.
 
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Only 15 rounds in turret bustle are separated with blow off panels. 27 rounds in hull are not protected, just like old generation tanks (even less, cos old generation tank rounds have metal casing).

Abrams has all its rounds protected.


Differences between the Leopard 2 and the U.S. M1A1 Abrams tanks have caused considerable debate over which is the better MBT , although some observers would argue for including the British Challenger tank as well. The Leopard 2 has advantages over the Abrams in the commander's independently stabilized and slewable sighting system, the gunner's binocular sight and the tank's fuel mileage, particularly when idling. The track is also said to have been much more reliable, once early problems were resolved.
The greatest advantage over the Abrams is in the Leopard 's relative fuel economy. According to manufacturer's figures, the Abrams turbine's fuel consumption at best speed for maximum range is 0.58 miles per gallon (0.25 km per liter); the Leopard 's 1.08 miles per gallon (0.46 km per liter) is nearly twice as good. More practically stated, the Leopard travels 56 mi (90 km) farther on 57 percent less fuel. Fuel consumption while idling is the turbine's weakest point, consumption at idle being perhaps three times as much as the diesel. On the other hand, the German engine weighs more than twice as much as the AGT-1500 turbine and occupies more volume.

The independence of the commander's sight, while very useful, was limited by its lack of a thermal channel. For the commander to see in poor visual conditions, he has to couple the periscope with the gunner's thermal channel through an optical relay system. Many of the targets acquired during Operation Desert Storm were first seen through thermal sights. The Leopard 2 Improved variant has the PERI R17 TW sight with thermal channel. This was rectified in the Leopard 2A5 .

A new fin-stabilized 120 mm HE-T (high explosive-tracer) round was developed for the Swedish army's Leopard 2 MBTs by Bofors and Israel Military Industries. The projectile used in the 120 mm HE-T projectile is from a 120-mm mortar bomb and is fitted with a point detonating (PD) fuse, which is not armed until the projectile is 50 m from the muzzle of the barrel.

In September of 2006, Israel Aerospace Industries and Rheinmetall announced the development of a gun-launched laser homing weapon system (Lahat) upgrade kit for Leopard 1 and 2 tanks. The Lahat is available in tank-launched and canister launched configurations. It can be fired from 105-mm and 120-mm guns, the latter requiring the use of a sabot. The missile allows first-shot kills of targets at ranges over 4 miles (6 km) utilizing internal or external guidance. The system has been successfully tested from a Leopard 2A4 tank.
 
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And I regard you as a class 6 ignorant. But then again you could research on these manners yourself. I have already put a huge amount of data on this site already.

Prove me wrong then. I have history on my side. Even though Pakistan's foreign policy is inconsistent and no body can trust us, experience tells us that US is an unreliable ally for any MiddleEast country except Israel. Even more unreliable supplier of arms.
If Arabs are serious about their defense they should produce their own Systems. It is my opinion that this money was better off spent on research and development.
The Americans make their own weapons, The Europeans make their own, The Russians, Chinese, Israelis, Indians... Even the Iranians are making their own Engines.. Why not the Arabs.
 
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Prove me wrong then. I have history on my side. Even though Pakistan's foreign policy is inconsistent and no body can trust us, experience tells us that US is an unreliable ally for any MiddleEast country except Israel. Even more unreliable supplier of arms.
If Arabs are serious about their defense they should produce their own Systems. It is my opinion that this money was better off spent on research and development.
The Americans make their own weapons, The Europeans make their own, The Russians, Chinese, Israelis, Indians... Even the Iranians are making their own Engines.. Why not the Arabs.

I have 7130 posts on this site. 3000 of those are talking about Military and Military Industry in KSA. Go ahead and research. Use the search option on top.

I am not saying we have become a major Defense Industry country, all I am saying is that we are well in our way to be one. With all the signs heavily pointing at that direction.
 
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I have 7130 posts on this site. 3000 of those are talking about Military and Military Industry in KSA. Go ahead and research. Use the search option on top.

I am not saying we have become a major Defense Industry country, all I am saying is that we are well in our way to be one. With all the signs heavily pointing at that direction.

With all your experience you have to admit with the amount of resources available, the Arabs are far behind other regional powers in respect of the military industry. Take for example the Indians, even though their Arjun tanks are more costly than the T90s and are not as good as T90s, but they still support their Arjun Tanks. At-least half of the money spent on T90s, M1 Abrams, Leo tanks if spent on development and purchase Saudi developed tanks could create a whole new heavy industry in Saudi. I can only wonder how many western military factories did the Saudis help out of closing down. The GCC countries have enough resources to produce weapons together that meet their specifications better than any western systems. This region has so much potential for power. But by buying western weapons it seems like the Arabs are exposing their weakness as it shows they are dependent of the friendship of Western Countries that are known the be aggressive towards other Arab countries.
 
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Since when Iran and Saudi Arabia share borders?Maybe they want to move these tanks through Persian Gulf? It is like Iran buying tanks to defend itself especially against Japan.Doesn't make any sense
It's is very welcome if some members think a little bit before posting here.

Seriously? Unlike Japan... There is a land link between Iran and Saudi. Either army could march through Kuwait and Iraq if there is a conflict. It is a possibility, a few border fences wont be a problem for tanks?
 
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With all your experience you have to admit with the amount of resources available, the Arabs are far behind other regional powers in respect of the military industry. Take for example the Indians, even though their Arjun tanks are more costly than the T90s and are not as good as T90s, but they still support their Arjun Tanks. At-least half of the money spent on T90s, M1 Abrams, Leo tanks if spent on development and purchase Saudi developed tanks could create a whole new heavy industry in Saudi. I can only wonder how many western military factories did the Saudis help out of closing down. The GCC countries have enough resources to produce weapons together that meet their specifications better than any western systems. This region has so much potential for power. But by buying western weapons it seems like the Arabs are exposing their weakness as it shows they are dependent of the friendship of Western Countries that are known the be aggressive towards other Arab countries.

Excuse me, people are not here to educate ignorants. You can search about Arab military industry yourself or at least make sure that you have updated your information. Egypt manufactures M1A2 Abrams, ant air systems, artillery...ect. Unlike regional powers who haven't yet developed their own tanks except for Israel. I hope people search before opening their mouths:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/192249-made-uae.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/164712-made-jordan.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-warfare/167821-m60-phoenix-main-battle-tank.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/204388-rpg-32-hashim.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/175911-9k35-zreb-bd-gopher-sa-13-a.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/168386-al-hussein-mbt.html
 
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Leopard 2A7 is also a battle proven tank it could do good in Saudi army
 
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Excuse me, people are not here to educate ignorants. You can search about Arab military industry yourself or at least make sure that you have updated your information. Egypt manufactures M1A2 Abrams, ant air systems, artillery...ect. Unlike regional powers who haven't yet developed their own tanks except for Israel. I hope people search before opening their mouths:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/192249-made-uae.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/164712-made-jordan.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-warfare/167821-m60-phoenix-main-battle-tank.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/204388-rpg-32-hashim.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/175911-9k35-zreb-bd-gopher-sa-13-a.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/168386-al-hussein-mbt.html

You are telling me that some Arab country that you have nothing to do with is producing an American tank under license? Dont waste my time.
Turkey is developing its own tank. Iran has its own tanks, India and Pakistan are developing their own tanks.
Jordan has a mix of old American and British tanks with some modifications.
What I am really interested in is Arabs taking on a task like the Turks and Iranians, develop your own system with your own engines. GCC countries have the resources now that they me not always have. Instead of acting as a lifeline to western weapons manufacturers.
 
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You are telling me that some Arab country that you have nothing to do with is producing an American tank under license? Dont waste my time.
Turkey is developing its own tank. Iran has its own tanks, India and Pakistan are developing their own tanks.
Jordan has a mix of old American and British tanks with some modifications.
What I am really interested in is Arabs taking on a task like the Turks and Iranians, develop your own system with your own engines. GCC countries have the resources now that they me not always have. Instead of acting as a lifeline to western weapons manufacturers.

You seriously lack a great deal of knowledge in the aspect of military and military equipment. So I am going to give you a few months to go and read on the subject fully. And then we will have a productive debate :). Till then have a good one.
 
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