Lahore buss service. No different than Raja rental case.

[mr42O]

It is corruption and conflict of intersset. That right way to do is give add in newspapirs and have bid round. They company with best bid wins. Simple as that. U just cant give contract to ur own company. In Norway there was a MNA who gave contracts to his son company for buldings etc. Guess what they were exposed and now behind bars and every thing they owned isnt theres any more since goverment has taken and sold it.

Supplying the iron from ittefaq foundries is not corruption. It is corruption only if iron market rate se high price PR supply kia ja Raha ho. Job k iron lowest market rate PR supply KIA ja raha hai...

 

[Hyde]

No disrespect intended but which part of London do live in, under 19 do not travel for free, Students over 18 get a 30% discount and under 18 get a 50% discount on travel cards that's if you buy a ticket for a week or moth, not on single fares with few exceptions. 11-15 years old Travel free and also disabled and over 60.

Sir if you really live in London you should have known that students under the age of 19 travel free of cost. The price you mentioned is for those who are too lazy to apply for freedom pass or would stop studying for any reason. As far as I know 99% of the people in UK would continue their studies until the age of 19 at least --- and if you are a student, you get the oyster card form from any post office or station and take it to your college... They stamp it - you apply to the TFL and you get a free pass until the age of 19. it's as simple... no headache and everybody qualifies for it...

The rule of 11-15 is also very similar to 16-18 card - take the form, fill it - apply - get the freedom pass within 5-10 days... everybody is eligible

Check this link: 16-18 | Transport for London

You will get 30% discount even when you are over 19 or above... If you are a student of any age - you may be eligible to get 30% discount

But with all these discounts and offers the company TFL ( transport for London ) runs in profit they don't run in loss, because they have done a feasibility report and and put the prices accordingly.

Sir TFL was just an example... London underground is the oldest underground network in the world. It was built well before the independence of Pakistan and Modern India.. and when the black people were brought in to dig the well for them to construct modern day underground network. So they have a reason to give subsidy in most places - Still I am not sure if TFL is running in profit or not --- You can check about other countries and you will get the point since London was just a mere example. It doesn't really matter if the transportation company is making profit or acceptable losses since the amount you will be saving in natural reserves might be much more higher than transportation subsidies...

We Pakistanis on the other hand have very low expectations from our Govt, we have a thinking that what if the Govt is eating the whole chocolate cake at least they are giving us a little candy.
which look good in appearance but what we don't know is that the cake is also being paid for by our money.

Tickets | Transport for London

Of course I am not justifying the Punjab government... They are corrupt and it's not an open secret --- I am only talking about this project - if the government does 10 bad things and 2 good things --- I would appreciate those two...

 

[Leader]

Even if lets take this hypothesis that there was corruption attached with project, concluding it as failed project before it came to its mature state is just biased way to show resistance, I see it as a counter move, It's market they made a move let see what Pti have to offer in return to gain market share .... I think we really need to make our cognition a liberal department in our mind that we mostly lack. We can't blindly state every move of our opposition as failed because that will fail us too along with them in the end.

Great approach, fully agree, however in this case, a project worth more than 100 billion is initiated without a feasibility report... WITHOUT A FEASIBILITY REPORT...if you can understand this, you probably wouldn't have written any of what you said.. the project that Shahbaz saw in Turkey is a properly researched project in a properly designed and developed city.. its to facilitate the labour and white colour class to reach their work places from their residential areas... do you see any such divide in Lahore that Labour class lives in area A and go on daily basis to reach out area B? and let me know the biggest question, in how many years the investment shall be recovered? these are the basic things that needs to be answered before any project is initiated...just let me know how can you say a project will be successful without a feasibility report? let alone all the other issues we Lahoris have raised..

 

[Hyde]

Great approach, fully agree, however in this case, a project worth more than 100 billion is initiated without a feasibility report... WITHOUT A FEASIBILITY REPORT...if you can understand this, you probably wouldn't have written any of what you said.. the project that Shahbaz saw in Turkey is a properly researched project in a properly designed and developed city.. its to facilitate the labour and white colour class to reach their work places from their residential areas... do you see any such divide in Lahore that Labour class lives in area A and go on daily basis to reach out area B? and let me know the biggest question, in how many years the investment shall be recovered? these are the basic things that needs to be answered before any project is initiated...just let me know how can you say a project will be successful without a feasibility report? let alone all the other issues we Lahoris have raised..

i will try to find the feasibility report for you when using computer.. if it really is without feasibility report then it is really a mattter of concern... incurring losses is not a big deal in such projects but doing it without determining the cos and prons definitely leads to corruption

 

[mr42O]

for me i cant understand why need a turkish company to run a simple buss service?? How can turks know Pakistan better tha Pakistanies ? And PML.N is well known for copying every thing they dont have own brain.

 

[Hyde]

for me i cant understand why need a turkish company to run a simple buss service?? How can turks know Pakistan better tha Pakistanies ? And PML.N is well known for copying every thing they dont have own brain.

Because no such project exists in Pakistan so they will either re-invent the whole idea from scratch or copy from already established projects in the world. After Lahore project - rest of the cities in Pakistan may follow the Lahore model and learn from it's experience... but since this is the first such project in Pakistan - You either follow other nation's formula of success or reinvent from scratch.

List of bus rapid transit systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is not a normal bus service - where you buy 1000-2000 buses and start driving, that way the road traffic is badly effected and attracts very little public attention. These type of projects are alternative to underground system either Metro (underground railway) or DLR (Light Railways depending upon the needs) to significantly reduce the number of vehicles running on the road, improve road/traffic conditions and obviously cheapest transportation possible for the public.

 

[Hyde]

BTW, I haven't seen the Istanbul model but if you have been to Paris - You will know what this system is about. Paris BRTS is very effective and similar to this project. You can watch the following video to understand what it is

Streetfilms | Mobilien: Paris’ Version of Bus Rapid Transit

Last time I had a trouble when my cousin couldn't use the Paris metro for some reasons - and I was very happy to use this alternative of BRTS. Basically if you want to go to Destination B from Destination A, by train it might take 20 minutes, by car 45 minutes and by BRTS may be 30 minutes... that's how effective it is.. On top of that everybody can use it (i.e disabled people etc)

 

[Cent4]

Sir if you really live in London you should have known that students under the age of 19 travel free of cost. The price you mentioned is for those who are too lazy to apply for freedom pass or would stop studying for any reason. As far as I know 99% of the people in UK would continue their studies until the age of 19 at least --- and if you are a student, you get the oyster card form from any post office or station and take it to your college... They stamp it - you apply to the TFL and you get a free pass until the age of 19. it's as simple... no headache and everybody qualifies for it...

The rule of 11-15 is also very similar to 16-18 card - take the form, fill it - apply - get the freedom pass within 5-10 days... everybody is eligible

Check this link: 16-18 | Transport for London

You will get 30% discount even when you are over 19 or above... If you are a student of any age - you may be eligible to get 30% discount

Sir TFL was just an example... London underground is the oldest underground network in the world. It was built well before the independence of Pakistan and Modern India.. and when the black people were brought in to dig the well for them to construct modern day underground network. So they have a reason to give subsidy in most places - Still I am not sure if TFL is running in profit or not --- You can check about other countries and you will get the point since London was just a mere example. It doesn't really matter if the transportation company is making profit or acceptable losses since the amount you will be saving in natural reserves might be much more higher than transportation subsidies...

Of course I am not justifying the Punjab government... They are corrupt and it's not an open secret --- I am only talking about this project - if the government does 10 bad things and 2 good things --- I would appreciate those two...

I personally have used the 18+ oyster card that gave me 30% discount on travel cards and with the 16-18 oyster card only bus and tram is free that is only if you are full time student, Tube and DLR are at half price.

But I agree with your point that we should discuss the model and not the discount rates.

The point I was trying to make is that TFL does not take on a project if its ''operational'' cost are more than the economic benefit every year its alright if it is not profitable for 1-2 years.
I stress again on the Economic benefit part.

The only subsidy from govt they get is in form of grants which are only for the purpose capital expenditure and not revenue expenditure.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/tfl-annualreport-2012.pdf

Now take the example of Airport expansion commission is formed to look at different options i.e heathrow, gatwick, luton, stansted. Cost benefit analysis keeping in view factors such as social, economic, environmental and financial would be done and report will be published.

The case with the punjab govt is totally different one day they decide to spend fortune on green belt next day they spend fortune on demolishing it and spending again on building a road. Irony is no body is asking them why they are doing this and they are not making the whole process transparent.

I am all in for Govt spending money on capital expenditure but to waste money on revenue expenditure is totally unfair and misuse of public money. Specially when that money can be spend elsewhere where there are no roads. Lahore is not whole punjab.

 

[Leader]

i will try to find the feasibility report for you when using computer.. if it really is without feasibility report then it is really a mattter of concern... incurring losses is not a big deal in such projects but doing it without determining the cos and prons definitely leads to corruption

jan how exactly can you find an official document on net? if there is a one, its not for public scrutiny, may not find any... but good luck with that.. 7 underpasses were not part of this project, now being dug !!

On contrary give me a system that connects most parts of the Lahore in a logical way, say divide Lahore into 20 zones and interconnect it with the bus service system... control traffic through a standard, develop system, implement system, educate people to follow rules, instead of wasting money on this dedicated bus lane which has decreased the space for the road along of general traffic, one bottle neck and the whole traffic is bound to jam or slow down... and these bottlenecks are bound to take place especially on lower mall where historic building were not touched, and above all done in a city which grew like a mushroom with no sense at all, pick up the old LDA files of 60s and see what standards LDA devised to develop Lahore and compare it with the current one, believe me seeing that document would give you a 100000 kw shock..

imagine in old London if such a project is devised, la chitar lainay nay lokaan nay !!

 

[Leader]

for me i cant understand why need a turkish company to run a simple buss service?? How can turks know Pakistan better tha Pakistanies ? And PML.N is well known for copying every thing they dont have own brain.

true. they have invested looted money from swiss accounts to Turkey and England... obviously invested in businesses,

see there is a clean up service in Lahore "Lahore waste management service" that is also given to Turkish company in which they probably have shares, instead of giving that money to "waste buster" a huge organization in Lahore that is working for a decade or so, or enhance the government's municipal service.. obviously you know why giving tenders to certain Turkish companies... even if not directly involved in business through paper than probably through trust or bundles of commission money...

yar its you and me who think in terms of welfare, they are in politics to do business and establish estate... thats their only purpose...

 

[Hyde]

I personally have used the 18+ oyster card that gave me 30% discount on travel cards and with the 16-18 oyster card only bus and tram is free that is only if you are full time student, Tube and DLR are at half price.

and poor me, when I was 13 years old - Children's below the age of 12 were free to travel, when I was 16 years old - children's below the age of 15 were allowed to travel for free, when I was 19 - children's under the age of 18 were allowed to travel for free - could not travel for free in my age

But my family members were able to travel for free until the age of 19. You are right about different rules for train service after the age of 12 but that's not a question here so lets leave it aside.

The point I was trying to make is that TFL does not take on a project if its ''operational'' cost are more than the economic benefit every year its alright if it is not profitable for 1-2 years.
I stress again on the Economic benefit part.

The only subsidy from govt they get is in form of grants which are only for the purpose capital expenditure and not revenue expenditure.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/tfl-annualreport-2012.pdf

I am all in for Govt spending money on capital expenditure but to waste money on revenue expenditure is totally unfair and misuse of public money. Specially when that money can be spend elsewhere where there are no roads. Lahore is not whole punjab.

You are right and I think no project is beneficial if it will never reap the profits. We don't want another steel-mill like project which will become a burden on our government. We want the project to ultimately grow and grow big enough to stand on her feet and start producing profits. You can afford losses for couple of years which is fine but ultimately the project has to start making profit for the company and the government.

 

[Hyde]

jan how exactly can you find an official document on net? if there is a one, its not for public scrutiny, may not find any... but good luck with that.. 7 underpasses were not part of this project, now being dug !!

Sir these are civil/commercial projects and feasibility report should be available for such projects. It's always there - so if I/you/we are not able to find a feasibility report on internet, expect lack of transparency and corruption from this project (which will obviously make you very happy).

On contrary give me a system that connects most parts of the Lahore in a logical way, say divide Lahore into 20 zones and interconnect it with the bus service system... control traffic through a standard, develop system, implement system, educate people to follow rules,

Sir let this project finalize first. You haven't read the letter/envelope and started criticising the sender

instead of wasting money on this dedicated bus lane which has decreased the space for the road along of general traffic, one bottle neck and the whole traffic is bound to jam or slow down... and these bottlenecks are bound to take place especially on lower mall where historic building were not touched, and above all done in a city which grew like a mushroom with no sense at all, pick up the old LDA files of 60s and see what standards LDA devised to develop Lahore and compare it with the current one, believe me seeing that document would give you a 100000 kw shock..

imagine in old London if such a project is devised, la chitar lainay nay lokaan nay !!

As far as I know, a new side road is being developed for this project so you are not going to see less lanes anywhere in Lahore. The original traffic will be reduced significantly once the general public is encouraged to use public transport more often and the number of rickshaws/private transportation vehicles will obviously disappear/reduce itself. The underpasses and the bridges you are mentioning are all part of this project right? I have seen similar projects in other countries and I know how successful they are. They are bound to be successful and I see no reason why it will not be successful in Pakistan. It is a shame that Pakistan did not initiate such project 2-3 decades ago like other countries. Look at the number of such projects in your neighbouring country India. The idea is to have a bus-only reserved lane for public transportation. Which means if the road has 4 lanes, one more lane is created for bus lane or emergency services to accelerate the pace of the road traffic and that lane is so effective that the journey you might be doing on the bus might be as good as travelling on the private car.

It's a complex issue i think you will eventually start liking it once the project is completed... Only worrying factor is the corruption or transparency factor for which you are free to criticise.

 

[Fracker]

Please explain how the money is being spend on general public, when public is going to pay higher than standard ticket prices and still the project will be in loss, and remaining amount will be taken from public pockets by increasing electricity bills etc.

General public need to understand that govt is doing a business project and that to in loss, they are not building hospital for better treatment for free or school for education for free.



What there is no conspiracy, money is not going to fall from sky my friend, so just tell us how is it good exactly.

Lol you r funny, and ignorant about Lahore and Punjab... Bus Service is free in Lahore for the students and cheapest among all other big cities. While they get AC Busses, with good care from the government.. IF government is not spending this money for public then in the end this will end up on corruption so better to be spended on Public, Like Yellow Cab, Motorway, Ashiyana Housing, sasti rotti these things actually help Poors in the end.. But how you guyz will understand...

And Last not the least, No special or extra tax been impossed by Punjab Government to develop this project.

 

[Edevelop]

I'm not surprised. Leader is a true PTI fanboy and he is showing desperation...

 

[Armstrong]

I'm not surprised. Leader is a true PTI fanboy and he is showing desperation...

Something tells me that you're going to vote for Nawaz just because he likes Nihari too, Buttt Sahib !