Kuwait Times: Israel is not our enemy

[Aestu]

Israel is your territory not Gaza and this is exactly the point we make that in your heart you don't believe that Palestinian land is their land but belongs to Israel. Did Israel declared war on USA when you guys bombed USS liberty? And lets be honest big boy without my tax $$ and the support of my country you would not stand a chance you know that do you?

You are misinformed. Israel has forfeited any claim to Gaza. There was a unilateral withdrawal in 2005. There is not a Jewish soldier, settler or civilian anywhere in or near Gaza. Israel is hoping Egypt will take over Gaza, so the Gazans can live with and under the rule of their Arab brothers, but the Egyptians won't do that because it would mean going from a cold peace to an understanding that the conflict is permanently over.

Now that we agree that Israel doesn't have a claim to Gaza, are we friends now?
Or would you care to make some more demands? ^_^

 

[DavidSling]

You are misinformed. Israel has forfeited any claim to Gaza. There was a unilateral withdrawal in 2005. There is not a Jewish soldier, settler or civilian anywhere in or near Gaza. Israel is hoping Egypt will take over Gaza, so the Gazans can live with and under the rule of their Arab brothers, but the Egyptians won't do that because it would mean going from a cold peace to an understanding that the conflict is permanently over.

Now that we agree that Israel doesn't have a claim to Gaza, are we friends now?
Or would you care to make some more demands? ^_^

The pure hatred toward Israel without people even know the basic facts about the conflict is sad, and only reflect the propaganda against Israel in the arab world.

 

[Aestu]

The pure hatred toward Israel without people even know the basic facts about the conflict is sad, and only reflect the propaganda against Israel in the arab world.

I personally believe the conflict is really not about Israel at all, but deep-seated cultural problems in the Arab world. Israel's experience is different than that of the Kurds, Druze, Copts and Maronites only in that we are stronger and better-organized and succeeded at the same goal they are seeking to achieve.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Jews are righteous and god fearing people, zionists are greedy, trigger happy, genocidal, racist land grabbers. Massive difference.

Jews are rightous and god fearing people. Really? Did they not break the covenant with Allah? They made lofty claims of being with nabi Dawoud as'salaam in fighting jalouth and only a few were believers. And there are many more example of their transgressions. Their rabaniyeens were liars and took Uzair as their illa, they changed that which was revealed to them for their benefit.

By definition, nothing in Israel can be the "first" mosque, because Muhammed never visited Israel.

Prophet Muhammed as'salaathu was'saam went to the farthest Masjid, which is Al-Aqsa and it's located in Zionist Occupied Palestine.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Disagree .. Israel intends to construct third temple in place of Al.Aqsa mosque ...

Some religious fanatics may want to do it, but what "Israel" wants is determined by the elected government,
and that has stopped such ideas.

When Jerusalem came under Israeli control in 1967, certainly some fanatics wanted to destroy
the Mosque, but that was stopped by Moshe Dayan.

 

[Aestu]

Jews are rightous and god fearing people. Really? Did they not break the covenant with Allah? They made lofty claims of being with nabi Dawoud as'salaam in fighting jalouth and only a few were believers. And there are many more example of their transgressions. Their rabaniyeens were liars and took Uzair as their illa, they changed that which was revealed to them for their benefit.

But wait... I thought this was about Zionism, not Islamic bigotry against Jews?

The Jews owed Muhammed nothing. Our only covenant was and is with G-d. Judeo-Christian law holds that oaths made under duress are invalid. What do we owe to a killer threatening us if we do not submit? Arguably this remains the dynamic today, as defined by Islam.

You should read the megilah and about modern Jewish interpretations of the Purim story. The story goes that the Jews freely and loyally served their Zoroastrian Persian rulers, even going so far as to warn them about a plot against the shah. But when the shah's grand vizier demanded the Jews bow to him, the answer was no - we bow to no one but G-d. This remains established Jewish dogma today. We honor our free oaths, but owe nothing to those who threaten us, and even less than nothing to those who regard our heritage with jealousy and seek to usurp it. And if that wasn't Muhammed's intention, then why should we recognize him? How is that an offense to Islam?

What this comes down to is the inability of Islam to wrap its collective head around the concept of universalism external to Islam.

Prophet Muhammed as'salaathu was'saam went to the farthest Masjid, which is Al-Aqsa and it's located in Zionist Occupied Palestine.

This is a false interpretation on three counts. First off, no, Miuhammed never visited Jerusalem, that is a historical fact and I defy you to prove otherwise. The myth that "the furthest mosque" means Jerusalem is a false interpretation of the Quran made up by GODLESS COMMUNISTS who founded the PFLP/PLO. Nothing could be more wrong than taking instruction on the Quran from Communists.

Second, it's also factually wrong to call the "furthest mosque" Jerusalem on the basis of sheer geography. The furthest mosque would by definition be in Pakistan or Morocco. The factual illogic of such a claim strongly suggests it was invented by Communists. No?

Finally, the Quran says that the chosen people of Islam are the Arabs and that Israel must always belong to the Israelites. Since by definition no Israelite could be an Arab because the condition is premised on the covenant made with Jacob - Islam and Judaism agree here - then doesn't that mean that the claim is made by those who deny the Quran?

But let's back up again...if we establish that Jews do honor their free oaths, and that the enmity based on a false interpretation of the Quran was invented by Communists...then doesn't that mean Israel and Kuwait and the rest of the Ummah don't have to be enemies? Right?

 

[mahatir]

Israel is not the one arming Houthis in yemen and supporting muslim extremists in the arabian peninsula , I think we know who the real enemy is .

 

[Solomon2]

stop it
You are not expert on Quran And taking it out of context.

I agree I'm not an expert on the Quran. I agree that taking one line out of a book carries the danger of applying it in an incorrect context. However, you have not supported your assertion that I have done so.

 

[HAIDER]

This is the issue of Israel and very easy to asses . Sometime, poverty and economic depression cause more terrorism ....what you think ?

And 2006

 

[Aestu]

Israeli Arabs and even Arabs under Israeli occupation are much better off economically than most Arabs living in Arab states. Israeli Arabs have, by far, the highest rates of literacy and educational achievement in the Middle East.

The Gulf States are some of the richest countries in the world per capita, and almost everything is free there. They are the world's leading supporters of terrorism.

Your claims about economic class and terrorism are unfounded.
And your map is wrong for reasons that have already been explored in this thread.

 

[HAIDER]

Good read..
A Demographic Time Bomb in the Middle East
January 5, 2015

Authors
Drew Christiansen

Ra'fat Aldajani

National Catholic Reporter, January 5, 2015

While the news headlines last week focused on Palestinian accession to the Rome Statue of the International Criminal Court, a less reported but equally critical development took place.
The Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) released its annual population survey for 2014, in which it predicted that starting in 2016, the number of Palestinians and Jews living in Israel and the Palestinian territories of East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza "will total about 6.42 million each by the end of 2016 provided that current growth rates remain constant." The bureau also states: "The number of Palestinians in historical Palestine [Israel and the Palestinian territories] will total 7.14 million compared to 6.87 million Jews by the end of 2020."
The survey elicited two different reactions from Israelis. As Gianluca Mezzofiore reported in the International Business Times, the Palestinian "demographic bomb" seized Israeli right-wingers with panic at the looming prospect of Palestinians outnumbering Jewish Israelis in just two years. "The worst nightmare for Zionists and nationalists -- that of an Israeli state where an ethnic minority rules over a majority, raising echoes of Apartheid-like system -- seems to be approaching at an unrelenting pace," Mezzofiore wrote.
On the other hand, some Israeli commentators accused the PCBS of pumping its figures for political reasons. Former Israeli diplomat Yoram Ettinger told The Jerusalem Post the Palestinian data had been inflated by more than 1 million in the West Bank and by almost 400,000 in Gaza.
Ettinger, who is not a professional statistician but a diplomat and head of the Israeli government press office, bases his accusations on studies done by the American-Israel Demographic Study Group, which in turn relies on an almost-9-year-old Bar-Ilan University study, "The Million Person Gap: The Arab Population in the West Bank and Gaza." Many of that report's numbers were based on pre-1995 census figures.Experts have criticized Ettinger, saying his comments are not based on academic research. Professor Arnon Soffer from the geography department at the University of Haifa told The Jerusalem Post, "Today, the percentage of Jews is 52% and in 2024 it will be just 48%." Soffer accused Ettinger of not basing his work on academic research, but instead drawing conclusions to serve a right-wing political agenda.

Soffer is backed up by the studies of Hebrew University's Professor Sergio DellaPergola, one of Israel's most respected academic demographers. DellaPergola predicted in 2011 that the crossover point where Palestinians would outnumber Israeli Jews would come in 2015. DellaPergola's research concluded, "The unquestionably documented fact is that the Arab population in our area is growing and will continue to grow for several years at a pace faster than the Jewish population."
"If the Jewish population is considered in its core definition, without the over 300,000 non-Jewish members of households, and the over 222,000 foreign workers are added to the total population of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza ... the Jewish percentage becomes 49.8%," it said.

"In other words, in 2010 there is no majority of Jews, by the core definition, over the whole territory of the former British Mandate plus the Golan Heights."

The CIA World Factbook, which does not cite sources, puts the population of the West Bank and Gaza at 2.7 million and 1.8 million, respectively -- 100,000 lower than the PCBS estimates.
Whatever the case, unless there is another massive influx of immigrants to Israel bolstering Israeli population figures and delaying the date when the Palestinian population overtakes the Jewish one, as happened with the immigration from the former Soviet Union to Israel in the 1990s of some 1 million Russians, it seems that the tipping point will be reached sooner rather than later.

Why does all this matter? Simply put, once the Palestinian population exceeds the Israeli Jewish one, you will have a situation where a minority population rules and occupies a majority one, akin to what existed in apartheid-era South Africa. Some would argue that apartheid -- a system of different rights for different ethnic groups -- already exists, but the resonance would be much more serious when it becomes minority rule.

Just as serious, continued occupation and rule over a Palestinian majority would make Israel face the harsh fact that it cannot remain a democratic majority-Jewish state while it continues to do so. If, on top of that, the Palestinians finally give up on the prospect of an end to the occupation and decide instead to seek equal rights and citizenship in an Israel that encompasses all of the land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, then Israel would by definition cease to be a Jewish state and would instead become one where Palestinian citizens are the majority.

The demographic time bomb is ticking. Will Israel heed the warning?

This blog, co-written by Drew Christiansen, S.J. and Ra'fat Aldajani, was originally posted by the National Catholic Reporter.

 

[Aestu]

The Arabs will be expelled before that happens.

The underlying premise, that Muslims think that it's ideal to subvert democracy or the rights of a national group to be sovereign in their homeland by making babies rather than productive works and turning infidels' sense of lawfulness and fairness against them, betrays harsh truths about why the Islamic world can't get democracy working properly, why they are increasingly unwelcome in the West, and even why they are obsessed with looting Israel rather than solving their own problems.

Also, to be clear, the same Catholics who wish for Israel's demise because they think that the success of the Jewish state is an affront to Christian successionism, also believe that all Muslims are destined to burn in hell with their false prophet. You realize that, don't you?

 

[Solomon2]

This is the issue of Israel and very easy to asses . Sometime, poverty and economic depression cause more terrorism ....what you think ?

...

This is referred to by Zionists as "the map that lies": link. There's no justification to keep using it, save to promote blood-libel fantasies. Therefore anyone who knowingly does so, or uses it and doesn't apologize and stop using it after learning better, is an antisemite.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

But wait... I thought this was about Zionism, not Islamic bigotry against Jews?

Was Benjamin Ze'ev Herzl alive in the times of Nabi Musa as'salaam. His vile movement started in 1895. There is no Islamic bigotry against your people. If you don't like what you see, don't break the mirror.

The Jews owed Muhammed nothing. Our only covenant was and is with G-d. Judeo-Christian law holds that oaths made under duress are invalid. What do we owe to a killer threatening us if we do not submit? Arguably this remains the dynamic today, as defined by Islam.

The treaty with Prophet Muhammed as'salaathu was'salaam was made freely and willingly in Madina. Jews were the inhabitants and the Muslim Al-Muhjiroon went their. The Ansar of Madina took them in, With respect to your distortion of history, you people came and willing accepted the treaty and yet broke it in reference to Banu Qurayzah and Banu Qaynuqa. These are one of the treacherous amongst the sons of Adam as'salaam.

What do we owe to a killer threatening us if we do not submit? Arguably this remains the dynamic today, as defined by Islam.

I want PDF to look at how he describes the Nabi as'salaathu was'salaam. This is their TRUE face, they have rancor and hatred for us. Twisting what you are onto us is what zionists do best and, what your sages have written speaks volumes about how to treat Goyam.

Thank you for your bedtime reading list; I suggest you read how we gave your people sanctuary when Andalusia fell to Christendom and they were slaughtering Jews and Muslim and your people took refuge throughout the Muslim world. I know Zionists have a short memory and like playing the victim card.

egard our heritage with jealousy and seek to usurp it.

It your people who are envious of Islam when your nation was put on pedestal and Allah had chosen them above all others. It is your nations that the Prophets as'salaathu was'salaamu alayhum came from and yet because of your continued transgressions and broke covenant with Allah, Allah took away his favors and Prophethood. And yet accuse us of being jealous! We are Allah chosen people now! Sir, having debated Zionists before and I say this as I said to them, get over it and move on! Our rank in the next life is already settled; insha'Allah our time is coming in this world.

 

[HAIDER]

Its Palastinian land and its there problem, they make baby or universal economic burden. They need a chance to govern the land independently. There funds are release by Israeli govt, there economic interest are watch by Israeli govt. Palistinian need freedom to show performance. Under microscope ....its impossible ...lose management is right way to achieve success.