Kuwait Times: Israel is not our enemy

[Aestu]

This is pretty much how the conflict between the Arabs and Israel is perceived by Jews.

It's worth noting that two of the three lead characters of the series were Jewish and that Jewish ideology heavily influenced the iconic series.

Haider, Azad - I'm curious - what do you make of it? How do you interpret this scene?
I'm genuinely interested to hear your opinion.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Muslims are despised in the West because they mistake honor for weakness

What has ZIONIST ''could'' have done to the Arabs in 48', 67', 71' wars have to do with Muslims being despised in the WEST?

Again... do you have historical proof of this?

Yes, do you read Arabic?

 

[Aestu]

Let's put that whole back-and-forth on ice and respond to my open-ended inquiry above. It's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious about your perceptions.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Let's put that whole back-and-forth on ice and respond to my open-ended inquiry above. It's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious about your perceptions.

Ok! But don't make us look like we're the enemy. Current history has not been kind to either side; with 6 million men, women and children being butchered by Hitler, and yet you talked about being ''caught up'' in Andalusia.

I will repeat what I said before, i know my people they will never recognise ZOC (Zionist Occupied Palestine). This has nothing to do with Kuwait, or even if the whole Arab World recognises ZOC. The best of cause of action is we stay out of each others way. ZOC doesn't need us and neither do we need them.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Muslims are despised

You make that statement as if it is a constant over time like the sun has been shining on earth. Today Muslim's are despised in the West. However before 1980s Communists were despised ( read McCarthyism ) and only after the collapse of Soviet Union in early 1990s did hatred switch over to the Muslims. Prior to that at times muslims were celebrated. If your American you should know that.

Reagan meats Mu-Jihad-een - precursor to the Taliban.

And watch this video to remind yourself of another Pakistan and another time when America was tighty buddy of the Jihadi Muslims. 1980

Clarify three points here. First Pakistan is next to Iran thus in order to "swoop over" from the west you don't need to go over India as that is farther east. Please refer to map.

Second point. I have rarely met a Pakistani who is in envy of India. Largest starvation capital of the world, poverty central, open defecation powerhouse with millions of Indian's trapped to rickshaws like animals is not a reason to be envy of despite what your media has been pouring out as facts.

Click > Man as beast - India

Third point. Pakistan is a democracy. Find out how PM Nawaz Sharif won. Not a perfect democracy but nevertheless a democracy. Huge rallies are held in elections which are bitterly fought.

With regards to Pakistan and Isreal there is absolutely nothing that both countries have against each other. Both represent zero threat to each other. Does anybody here doubt otherwise? Tel Aviv would be in state of alarm otherwise. Pakistan has over 100 nukes and nobody in Isreal is doing anything. Any Arab country tries to buy a second hand X ray machine that triggers radioctive scanners and Isreali F-15s are ready to bomb it. This is the reality on the ground. All we have in Pakistan is rhetoric and little substance.

The hinge of Pakistan's "Isreal policy" is Saudia Arabia. The day Saudia Arabia recognizes Isreal within the month so will Pakistan. In the meantime differant levers of influence in Pakistan have fallen victim to Saudi petrodollars and you see the results.

 

[Aestu]

I would again ask for the satisfaction of my curiosity at the top of this page.

You make that statement as if it is a constant over time like the sun has been shining on earth. Today Muslim's are despised in the West. However before 1980s Communists were despised ( read McCarthyism ) and only after the collapse of Soviet Union in early 1980s did hatred switch over to the Muslims. Prior to that at times muslims were celebrated. If your American you should know that.

Go watch classic movies from the 1940s-80s like Lawrence of Arabia, Gandhi, Casablanca, or even the children's movie DuckTales: Treasure of the Lost Lamp. Most Westerners' exposure to the Islamic world today and for centuries before has been first and entirely through the Arabian Nights, which are perceived as exotic but very cruel by Western standards, even compared to Grimm Tales. And yes, the Arab-Israeli conflict has been very bad press for the Islamic world, not because Israel won but because of the crazy odds in the Arabs' favor and perception of Arabs and Israel as "Willie E. Coyote vs the Roadrunner". Arabs and Muslims have been perceived as stupid and barbarous by the West pretty much forever. I want to point out that I'm not equating perceptions with truth - simply talking to your claim about perceptions themselves.

What changed since the 1980s and now is the globalization of the Third World. Most Americans are surprised to know that, in 1969, most Muslims were unaware the US had landed on the Moon. The basic cause of Islamic terrorism is ultimately globalization bringing the modern world to people who just aren't ready for it.

And watch this video to remind yourself of another Pakistan and another time when America was tighty buddy of the Jihadi Muslims. 1980

Friends? Hardly. The US used those savages to fight Communism. Or so they believed.

I have rarely met a Pakistani who is in envy of India. Largest starvation capital of the world, poverty central, open defecation powerhouse with millions of Indian's trapped to rickshaws like animals is not a reason to be envy of despite what your media has been pouring out as facts.

Actually, Americans are very aware of this. Many Americans believe that India could be a first-world nation if only 800 million of its people would disappear overnight. Most Americans who are not ignorant (lol rednecks) understand that Pakistan - like most Islamic societies compared to their infidel contemporaries - is a poorer, but more equal, country. But we also understand that India is the more powerful, more respected nation.

Muslims, as a culture, honor power over social progress. There's definitely a lot of envy of India's status and achievements, if not its ghastly poverty.

Third point. Pakistan is a democracy. Find out how PM Nawaz Sharif won. Not a perfect democracy but nevertheless a democracy. Huge rallies are held in elections which are bitterly fought.

Democracy =/= functional democracy. We both know it hasn't been the last time the military put democracy on ice.

With regards to Pakistan and Isreal there is absolutely nothing that both countries have against each other. Both represent zero threat to each other. Does anybody here doubt otherwise? Tel Aviv would be in state of alarm otherwise. Pakistan has over 100 nukes and nobody in Isreal is doing anything. Any arab country tries to buy a second hand X ray machine that triggers radioctive scanners and Isreali F-15s are ready to bomb it. This is the reaity on the ground. The hinge of Pakistan's "Isreal policy" is Saudia Arabia. The day Saudia Arabia recognizes Isreal within the month so will Pakistan. In the meantime differant levers of influence in Pakistan have fallen victim to Saudi petrodollars and you see the results.

I think you're talking a lot of sense here, but your opinions are quite evidently the minority amongst your countrymen.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

poorer, but more equal

Beg to differ. Absolute poverty is off the scale compared to Pakistan. Not saying here Pakistan is Scandanavia either. Poverty is relative concept but in India over 200 million people are in advancyed state of economic induced diet restriction which you might describe as starvation. Incidentally 200 million is more than the entire population of Pakistan.

Indian poverty levels higher than Pakistan's, says UN report - Telegraph

more powerful

I have no idea how strong you are. However lets assume your Mr Average. Well if you ran into 7 weaklings and got into a fight with them I reckon they ( the 7 ) would probably end up thumping you. You well might end up characterizing ( the 7 ) as "more powerful". Well consider below the population profiles of both countries and you will notice 7:1 disparity ( rounded off ).

India > 1,275 million.
Pak > 195 million

respected nation.

Perception is reality which is largely product of media. Pakistan has lots of champions of rhetoric as evidenced in this thread who help to feed into the whole vicious cycle. Result distorted image. Trust me if you went to Pakistan you would be shocked because it would be better then your perception but if you went to India you would be shocked because it would be worse then your perception.

Please take time to read this thread. Data was sourced from your NOAA. This is not subjective reporting but based on real time US data and see who is getting hammered by being painted the "failed" and who gets the "respect".

Shining Pakistan - South Asia from space

Apology. I have to break off now but will cover the other points you raised later.

 

[Solomon2]

I will repeat what I said before, i know my people they will never recognise ZOC (Zionist Occupied Palestine). This has nothing to do with Kuwait, or even if the whole Arab World recognises ZOC.

What does it have to do with? Lack of leadership? You could step forward and make a difference, yes?

 

[Aestu]

Pakistan's population is twice that of Japan, five times that of South Korea and 40 times that of Israel. Population is all but irrelevant in the modern era.

India's per capita GDP is significantly higher than Pakistan. There is no argument that inhuman poverty isn't "off the chart" in India, but nor is there any denying that India is in the aggregate a wealthier nation even when sheer population is factored out. Perhaps more importantly, India has scientific capabilities that Pakistan completely lacks. Israel and South Korea have these capabilities despite their far smaller populations.

Finally, the media is as the media does. While India is obviously the real and perceived heir to the entire cultural legacy of India as known to the West, it's probably a stretch to claim that India has more cred purely on the basis, compared to say, Brazil and South Korea versus Mexico and Thailand. And India doesn't hold a "VIP pass" to Western media to any extent for any other reason at all (unlike Israel or KSA).

The evidence suggests the deficits are cultural and institutional.

I want to get back to my initial question about the movie I linked.

 

[Defender@@]

The Jews owed Muhammed nothing.

Agreed, its not about what jews are doing in their individual life or even community life,,, its about creation Israel which was one of the Muslim dominant country till first half of nineteenth century then it got occupied by Zionist Jews and now Muslims are forced to live under non-muslims rules,,,, so leave Israel for muslims,,, we have no objection how you fulfill your oath to God,, ofz it will be your personal matter than ....

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

What does it have to do with? Lack of leadership? You could step forward and make a difference, yes?

We are happy to see more 'people of the book' on here @Aestu @DavidSling and yourself. We would love for you to visit the land of the pure. I'm not a leader to say lets recognise each other. If you are ethnic Pakistani then you'll know the mentality of people of your country. Pakistanis love to see westerners coming to the country and there are a lot of tourists from Britania, and other parts of Christendom but not many Amrkan.

The recognition of ZOP is I ''believe'' a step too far as I ''think'' people are not ready for it. The impression is that 'people of the book' haven't got over the Prophethood was taken away from them and Allah 'chosen people' title. And as a result of this you want to wipe us out.

In addition to the above Muslims get nervous when we read there are people from ZOP who have the building blocks, ceremonial gowns, paraphernalia ready for the alleged ''temple'' on the site of the Al-Aqsa.

So, Solomon it is not what I can do, it is what you can do to alleviate these fears. What is wrong with the current status-quo? We stay out of each others way; ZOP doesn't need us and neither do we need her.

 

[Solomon2]

We are happy to see more 'people of the book' on here @Aestu @DavidSling and yourself. We would love for you to visit the land of the pure.

Sorry, but Pakistani police have made clear that an avowed or suspected Zionist will not receive the protection of the law.

I'm not a leader to say lets recognise each other.

Why not?

The impression is that 'people of the book' haven't got over the Prophethood was taken away from them and Allah 'chosen people' title. And as a result of this you want to wipe us out.

Six years at PDF and I've never heard that one before. For Jews, the "chosen people" bit has to do with duties to G-d, not domination over others.

In addition to the above Muslims get nervous when we read there are people from ZOP who have the building blocks, ceremonial gowns, paraphernalia ready for the alleged ''temple'' on the site of the Al-Aqsa.

@Aetsu, did you mention anything about "building blocks"?

So, Solomon it is not what I can do, it is what you can do to alleviate these fears.

I've missed the logic here. Also the ethics. Pakistanis invent and pass around lies about Jews so it's up to Jews to remedy this?

What is wrong with the current status-quo? We stay out of each others way -

It's not enough for Pakistan. Because the denial of Israel's right-to-exist and the promotion of the right of Israel's enemies to destroy her involves so much illogic and so many psychological complexes that Pakistan has been and will continue to be severely damaged. If it's not the well from which all evil springs in the land, the recognition of Israel and Jews' rights will be an excellent treatment for them.

 

[DavidSling]

We are happy to see more 'people of the book' on here @Aestu @DavidSling and yourself. We would love for you to visit the land of the pure. I'm not a leader to say lets recognise each other. If you are ethnic Pakistani then you'll know the mentality of people of your country. Pakistanis love to see westerners coming to the country and there are a lot of tourists from Britania, and other parts of Christendom but not many Amrkan.

The recognition of ZOP is I ''believe'' a step too far as I ''think'' people are not ready for it. The impression is that 'people of the book' haven't got over the Prophethood was taken away from them and Allah 'chosen people' title. And as a result of this you want to wipe us out.

In addition to the above Muslims get nervous when we read there are people from ZOP who have the building blocks, ceremonial gowns, paraphernalia ready for the alleged ''temple'' on the site of the Al-Aqsa.

So, Solomon it is not what I can do, it is what you can do to alleviate these fears. What is wrong with the current status-quo? We stay out of each others way; ZOP doesn't need us and neither do we need her.

I can assure u couple of things.
*Currently, most of the jews in Israel has no INTEREST in al aqsa mosque and kinda don't give a crap(no offend meant) about it.
*We don't want to build a temple on the al aqsa mosque.
*Most of the Israelies don't give a crap(no offend meant) about Pakistan either, moreover, they don't even know where ru located on the map.
certainly don't count u as a threat of some kind.
*Most of the Israelies would like to make peace with the arab world, and has no interest in war.

 

[Aestu]

@Aetsu, did you mention anything about "building blocks"?

Nope. Supposedly the building will come ready-made. No blocks are necessary.

It's not enough for Pakistan. Because the denial of Israel's right-to-exist and the promotion of the right of Israel's enemies to destroy her involves so much illogic and so many psychological complexes that Pakistan has been and will continue to be severely damaged. If it's not the well from which all evil springs in the land, the recognition of Israel and Jews' rights will be an excellent treatment for them.

this.

I still want an answer to my question about the movie please. Sorry to keep asking.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Sorry, but Pakistani police have made clear that an avowed or suspected Zionist will not receive the protection of the law.

In 6 years have you heard PDF members tell you Zionists are not allowed in Pakistan? This answers the other question of ignorance of PDF members who like I said before don't represent Pakistan and only speak pseudo-liberals sitting in Christendom.

Why not?

Why not, what?

Six years at PDF and I've never heard that one before. For Jews, the "chosen people" bit has to do with duties to G-d, not domination over others.

Already answered above.

@Aetsu, did you mention anything about "building blocks"?

No, he mentioned :

''A funny postscript is that although the outstanding halakhic opinion is that Jews cannot build the Third Temple, there is an opinion that we can build the fixtures. So there are currently frum workshops competing to build all the tapestries, vestments, light fixtures, implements of sacrifice, etc, etc, etc, that are sitting in boxes waiting for the Temple to drop from the sky. Strange but true!''

Source: Kuwait Times: Israel is not our enemy | Page 5

Even if Zionists lie had about this I already know about it. People on PDF can search for the articles from the Zionist sources and see it for themselves. It's an open secret and, we'll see when your dajjal is coming for his seat of power. Time will tell!

I've missed the logic here. Also the ethics. Pakistanis invent and pass around lies about Jews so it's up to Jews to remedy this?

No the lies are spun by Zionists and this has been evident with my interaction with your fellow Zionists. Pakistanis are just being cautious of Jewish track record of transgressions and disobedience with Allah and we think those were Jews, but these are Zionists who follow are perverted ideology.

It's not enough for Pakistan. Because the denial of Israel's right-to-exist and the promotion of the right of Israel's enemies to destroy her involves so much illogic and so many psychological complexes that Pakistan has been and will continue to be severely damaged.

You seem to be hissing the hasbora trash at me again. Please don't do that! We also have the right to exist in peace and security. How does not recognizing ZOP severely damages Pakistan?

If it's not the well from which all evil springs in the land, the recognition of Israel and Jews' rights will be an excellent treatment for them.

How?

I can assure u couple of things.
*Currently, most of the jews in Israel has no INTEREST in al aqsa mosque and kinda don't give a crap(no offend meant) about it.
*We don't want to build a temple on the al aqsa mosque.
*Most of the Israelies don't give a crap(no offend meant) about Pakistan either, moreover, they don't even know where ru located on the map.
certainly don't count u as a threat of some kind.
*Most of the Israelies would like to make peace with the arab world, and has no interest in war.

-It's good ''currently'' the Zonists have no interest in destroying Al-Aqsa? Is this what you're saying? What about the future?
-Where do you intend to build the third temple?
-Good none taken and neither do Pakistanis of Zionists.
-We are no threat. Agreed! ZOP has a conscript army and the whole population in military in one way or another, it's a Military garrison state. Your leader Netanyahu spoke the truth and that is more correct in wanting to be a world power. That time is not far when you will show your military might and I do believe you are a superpower in waiting. There can be no other way for your coming Mashiakh!
-So when he comes what will become of the Muslims?