Kowsar Ver II - Possibilities !

[gambit]

@gambit
sir can you add anything regarding the feasibility of integrating Lyulka AL-21 to F-5 structure??
another question is that if it's possible for jet engines to work in their 10% of max out put power or not?

The Boeing 737 Max fiasco is appropriate here.

An aircraft is a working structure of compromises, so when you see an aircraft flying, you should know that literally everything that made the aircraft flight capable have been designed and manufactured with a measure of structural tolerance or 'wiggle room' or leeway in mind.

wig·gle room
capacity or scope for negotiation or operation, especially in order to modify a previous statement or decision.

What it means is that there is a tolerance or range of operational capacity that should not be crossed. When you see an aircraft in flight, every tolerance or range of operational capacity have been made relatively harmonious with each other. It is not perfection. The fact that there are ranges of tolerances means the system is imperfect.

When Boeing changed to the new engine in the 737 Max, the new engine upset all the balances. With the new engine, the aircraft have a greater RATE of pitch change and a higher angle-of-attack (AOA) sooner after nosewheel up. So Boeing created a software compensator (not fix) for a hardware issue (not problem).

The point is not about the public relation disaster but about that out of balance condition created by the new engine.

The new engine may fit in the F-5's engine bays, but what about performance in flight? Airfoils are designed specifically for a range of airspeed and altitude. The new engine may make the jet faster and accelerate rate higher, but that could also affect the departure from controlled flight envelope.

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-1216.pdf

Departure from controlled flight is that phase of flight during which the aircraft transitions from controlled to uncontrolled flight (Figure 2-9)...

Every aircraft have a figure 2-9. That bar in the middle of the chart will be different in location and tilt, but essentially, every aircraft have that chart.

It literally took yrs for the F-16 to change the opening of the intake and that was required with the new engine and you can see the intake difference here...

Pratt Whitney top
General Electric bottom (larger)

What if the F-5's current intake shape and size is too restrictive in airflow for the AL-21? Now you have to modify the F-5's intakes.

Am not saying it is technically impossible, but there are ramifications that will take yrs to resolve.

 

[TheImmortal]

I can’t believe we need to analyze a modernized F-5 clone this much.

Stop beating a dead horse.

No it’s not going to become a F-20. If Iran is going to make changes to the airframe or engine then it would just build a new damn aircraft. Because the time and expertise needed to do that is substantial.

So let’s stop talking about Kowsar, Saeghe, etc.

 

[sahureka2]

I can’t believe we need to analyze a modernized F-5 clone this much.

Stop beating a dead horse.

No it’s not going to become a F-20. If Iran is going to make changes to the airframe or engine then it would just build a new damn aircraft. Because the time and expertise needed to do that is substantial.

So let’s stop talking about Kowsar, Saeghe, etc.

No !, it is not correct to stop talking about it, because at the moment it is the only platform completely decoded by the F-5 and, apparently, built in series and also the only newly built aircraft with combat capabilities that can currently go to strengthen Iranian air forces
We could only stop talking about it when a completely new project aircraft is ready for mass production

 

[DoubleYouSee]

No !, it is not correct to stop talking about it, because at the moment it is the only platform completely decoded by the F-5 and, apparently, built in series and also the only newly built aircraft with combat capabilities that can currently go to strengthen Iranian air forces
We could only stop talking about it when a completely new project aircraft is ready for mass production

from 14:00 mnoochehr manteqi explains why we usd f-5 fuselage

 

[raazh]

from 14:00 mnoochehr manteqi explains why we usd f-5 fuselage

Whats he saying, Can anyone brief in english ?

 

[DoubleYouSee]

Whats he saying, Can anyone brief in english ?

Whats he saying, Can anyone brief in english ?

to make the story short......host asks about the old designed f-5 fuselage"why we didn't design a new airframe?"
and manteqi response that our designers are able to design an advanced airframe but with new design we need some types of wind tunnels to test our new fighter and regarding our poor investment on these capabalities we have to use f-5....

to make the story short......host asks about the old designed f-5 fuselage"why we didn't design a new airframe?"
and manteqi response that our designers are able to design an advanced airframe but with new design we need some types of wind tunnels to test our new fighter and regarding our poor investment on these capabalities we have to use f-5....

whole of the interview is worth watching but this part is related to kowthar......

 

[TheImmortal]

to make the story short......host asks about the old designed f-5 fuselage"why we didn't design a new airframe?"
and manteqi response that our designers are able to design an advanced airframe but with new design we need some types of wind tunnels to test our new fighter and regarding our poor investment on these capabalities we have to use f-5....


whole of the interview is worth watching but this part is related to kowthar......

I doubt the item holding back Iran’s development of advanced fighter jets is A WIND TUNNEL.

That’s just an excuse, more important is engine development followed by titanium production needed in advanced fighter jets.

A wind tunnel is not the deciding factor.

 

[DoubleYouSee]

I doubt the item holding back Iran’s development of advanced fighter jets is A WIND TUNNEL.

That’s just an excuse, more important is engine development followed by titanium production needed in advanced fighter jets.

A wind tunnel is not the deciding factor.

By the way in another part of interview they talk about engines.....not for fighter but for the civil airplain which will be being made by 2022.....

 

[Ray_Atek]

We should base a modern inhand platform such mig29 and define new project that inject f14, f4, f5 and .... Features on it and stealth feature also.

Qaher is :
Small but installing j79 or Al21 on it with size up-scaling give more power than f20 or Pakistanian jf-17 or f16 also in single engine configuration.

 

[zectech]

If you put in 5th gen avionics, radar, missiles and hardpoints on a modified Mig 15, you have something that at long range can shoot down 4th generation fighters.

The F-5s' airframe main disadvantages are dogfighting.

The aim of Iranian domestic air force R&D should be toward this focus of long range interception of 4th gen fighters.

I would put them on a Mig-29 airframe though. For better maneuverability and more hardpoints.

I would like to know where I am wrong in this thinking. The Chinese J-10C is not an attractive fighter but is 4.5 gen and can fire very long range Air to Air Missiles. That should be the top priority of most fighters, hitting the other jets before they hit you. A modified F-5 with very long range missiles can do this almost as good as any 4th gen fighter.

Going this route develops domestic fighter production. And eventually Iran will be producing 5th gen fighters, by not being reliant on foreign exporters of 4+ gen fighters. Iran will have already surpassed that.

 

[Mithridates]

The F-5s' airframe main disadvantages are dogfighting.

the main advantage of F-5 is it's high quality dogfighting capability. F-5 in a dissimilar air combat trainings in US achieved 2.5 kills against F-15s and 2 kills against F-14s with only one looses against each. but yes it's biggest disadvantage is it's airframe, for example the rudders added to saeqeh decreased it's max range, the avionics added to kowsar decreased it's service ceiling and max speed. the main problem is it's engine, if the promised J-90 engine becomes available the problem would solve.

 

[WudangMaster]

View attachment 576829 View attachment 576834 View attachment 576835 View attachment 576836 View attachment 576837 View attachment 576838 View attachment 576839

I was looking for another thread when I came across this and these pics of what we used to call the "single engine F-14" in the old forums.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Kowsar Ver II - Possibilities !
View attachment 576822

Share your thoughts ...​

 

[aryobarzan]

A true Klingon fighter. I truly believe in the near future a heavily modified version of Q-313 will be flight tested. It will hold Iranian digital avionics, Iranian Radar/IFF, Iranian Landing gear, Iranian Ejection seat and either an Iranian or an Interim Russian engine.

When that happens Iran will join very few countries that can claim to have a TRULY indigenous flying machine..and I do not care if it is 2nd generation or 6th generation ..40 years after having to buy razor wire from outside this country will demonstrate what can be done when you are independant.

 

[WudangMaster]

Iranian Radar/IFF

I was wondering about that from earlier today, I don't know much about the state of miniaturized phased arrays for the airforce. Kowsar radar seems appropriate to its size, though it can always be stronger and I don't know if have an aesa replacement for the awg-9. I have seens pictures of planar array on an IRIAF F-4 floating around as well but not much info.