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‘Kill Anything that Moves: The Real American War in Vietnam’

beijingwalker

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‘Kill Anything that Moves: The Real American War in Vietnam’ By Nick Turse
By JOHN TIRMAN, Saturday,
January 26, 8:28 AM
More than any other American conflict, the Vietnam War for years has been used as a cautionary tale of imperial overreach and excessive ideological zeal, though many details of the war are fading. So it’s bracing that journalist Nick Turse provides a sharply focused account of possible war crimes in that misbegotten venture.

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(Metropolitan) - ’Kill Anything That Moves: The Real American War in Vietnam’ by Nick Turse


As his title suggests, Turse is plunging into dark waters of the American way of war. It was a bloody affair, and estimates of Vietnamese deaths vary widely, but they were probably in excess of 2 million — a large number, he notes, for a country of just 19 million at the time. A policy of village destruction, heavy bombardment, free-fire zones, “relocation” of peasants and other indignities created millions of displaced people and millions of wounded. This useless bloodbath is a resilient, if vaguely understood, lesson of Vietnam.

With his urgent but highly readable style, Turse takes us through this landscape of failed policies, government mendacity and Vietnamese anguish, a familiar topography for those steeped in the many histories — the best ones by journalists — of this 1964-75 debacle. But Turse is up to something different and even more provocative: He delves into the secret history of U.S.-led atrocities. He has brought to his book an impressive trove of new research — archives explored and eyewitnesses interviewed in the United States and Vietnam. With superb narrative skill, he spotlights a troubling question: Why, with all the evidence collected by the military at the time of the war, were atrocities not prosecuted?

For the atrocities — many murders of civilians in South Vietnam — were known to the Pentagon brass and the likes of Defense Secretary Melvin Laird and Army Secretary Stanley Resor. Letters were written by soldiers and Marines, investigations were conducted and reports filed. Almost all were suppressed, hidden from public view. My Lai was atypical in scale (400 killed) but not in kind, and the military knew it. Turse takes us through many of these atrocities, large and small, to document the malignancy growing inside the U.S. armed forces.

Particularly striking is Operation Speedy Express, conducted in the Mekong Delta by the 9th Infantry Division under the command of Maj. Gen. Julian Ewell. Turse documents the savagery of Speedy Express, the gratuitous execution of thousands of civilians in pursuit of high body counts and career advancement. Thousands of dead Vietnamese, claimed by Ewell and his cohort to be Viet Cong guerrillas, were found with very few weapons. The Army was fully aware of what Ewell was doing, and rewarded him with a third star and a prestigious place at the Paris peace negotiations.

Turse poignantly asks, “Where have all the war crimes gone?” But his answers are not commensurate with his research. He spends several pages on the case of Newsweek correspondents Kevin Buckley and Alexander Shimkin and the evisceration of their long expose of Ewell by feckless editors in New York. “Had Buckley and Shimskin’s investigation been published in full form in January or February 1972,” he writes, “it might have proven to be the crest of the wave of interest in war crimes allegations, resulting in irresistible public pressure for high-level inquires.” But the My Lai massacre had already been aired and had stirred only a very brief public outrage before subsiding into indifference or, indeed, a defense of Lt. William Calley. The Winter Soldier hearings, in which Vietnam veterans told their stories of grisly atrocities in a public forum, were covered by only one major newspaper, in nearby Detroit.

Turse has the journalist’s faith that exposure will result in justice, but in the case of war, there’s little evidence that the public wants to know more about atrocities, much less act upon them. British scholar Kendrick Oliver made this argument brilliantly in his book on My Lai, showing how reactions to revealed atrocities follow a pattern that ultimately leads to a rally-round-the-troops phenomenon. One could contend that war, by its very nature — and not just in Vietnam and Cambodia, but in Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan — similarly leads to indifference to civilian suffering or even to blaming the victims.

Turse forcefully argues the narrower question of how the government failed to prosecute crimes committed in Vietnam or Cambodia (apart from Calley, who got 31 / 2 years of house arrest for hundreds of murders). He provides revealing details about the years-long Pentagon coverup, such as Laird’s taking tighter control of the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division, “which allowed key Defense Department officials to take an even more active role in suppressing war crimes cases. Investigations could now be quashed at the highest levels — and evidence suggests that, indeed, they were.”

While reading Turse’s powerful case, I couldn’t help wondering if, 30 years from now, we will see another, similarly revealing book about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The 2005 massacre at Haditha, Iraq, in which 24 unarmed civilians were killed by U.S. Marines, bears many resemblances to what Turse writes about Vietnam — a military coverup until an enterprising reporter got the facts, with no Marines paying a price for the slaughter. Is this the real code of military justice?

“As I came to see,” Turse writes, “the indiscriminate killing of South Vietnamese noncombatants — the endless slaughter that wiped out civilians day after day, month after month, year after year throughout the Vietnam War — was neither accidental nor unforeseeable.”

Will we ever come to terms with this shameful aspect of war? Turse has given us, at least, one step forward.

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beijingwalker said:
“As I came to see,” Turse writes, “the indiscriminate killing of South Vietnamese noncombatants — the endless slaughter that wiped out civilians day after day, month after month, year after year throughout the Vietnam War — was neither accidental nor unforeseeable.”
U.S is too strong to us to fight face to face with its solders,so we couldn't stop its mass killing to protect our civilians . Anyway, we won even the cost of the glory was too high.

Even China is still being bulled by US day after day in TW and the surrounding water ,so people can see how special our army is:coffee:

Don't know why some cheap websites rank China as No 3 military in the world when its army has Poor train, inexperience,low morale and totally has Nothing special.
 
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Don't know why some cheap websites rank China as No 3 military in the world when its army has Poor train, inexperience,low morale and totally has Nothing special.

As you stated before,Vietnam should be the No.3 military power.:victory:
 
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As you stated before,Vietnam should be the No.3 military power.:victory:
We should stay above of your poor trained army coz we defeated PLA too easily even with the main forces were border guards and women militia , that's enough:meeting:
 
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We should stay above of your poor trained army coz we defeated PLA too easily even with the main forces were border guards and women militia , that's enough:meeting:

I have enough sources and photos to prove that we defeated you in every aspect and totally destroyed your north territory even with the fact that our 1 million strong main forces were being deployed along the Sino-Russia border.

and how could you enjoy the gifts being left by those US troops,hundreds of Vietnamese still die and being maimed every year.the nightmare will last for another hundred years.poor Vietnamese..
 
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I have enough sources and photos to prove that we defeated you in every aspect and totally destroyed your north territory even with the fact that our 1 million strong main forces were being deployed along the Sino-Russia border.

and how could you enjoy the gifts being left by those US troops,hundreds of Vietnamese still die and being maimed every year.the nightmare will last for another hundred years.poor Vietnamese..
Sino-Russia border is far longer than VN-China's one,right,and only 1 mil China troops there when u used 600.000troop with U.s spy plane and satellite support to attack VN and still was pushed back.PLA only could capture our men when they ran out of ammunition(coz they're border guards and women milita with poor equiped only)

Did China troops in Sino-Russia were equipped with better weapon(and what kind of weapon ?) and supported with U.S spy plane and satellite?
 
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China sent merely 100.000 border garrison troops,the elite PLA were all stationed long the China Soivet border preparing for a full scale war with USSR.and the war only lasted for less than two weeks and in that short span of time the whole North Vietnam fell.it was too short to be called a war ,in China we just call it a short punitive expedition.and we destroyed your country's north territory.can you do the same in China?you can't even touch a grass on our side of the land.

US spy plane??lol..we would shoot them down if we saw them,like what we did for you so many time in US Vietnam war.and I don't know why you always bring up the war that you lost more than 30 years ago when China was even poorer and more ill equiped than Vietnam,PLA didnt' even have helmets at that time.but 30 years passed,China now has everything and the money.we don't even need to send troops and our airforce and missiles can bomb you back to stone age.
 
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‘Kill Anything that Moves: The Real American War in Vietnam’ By Nick Turse
By JOHN TIRMAN, Saturday,
January 26, 8:28 AM

In around 1 month, 1979 100,000 vietnamese were killed and wounded. atrocities, brutal activities of Chinese and USA aggressor were same.:sniper::china::sniper::usflag:
 
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Just for the record , Vietnam got hammered from all sides due to

North Vietnam attacking South Vietnam effectively wiping off 1-1.5 million Vietnamese

Then , Communist Vietnam attacked China ally Cambodia.

for which China got a nod from United states before it attacked Vietnam, so without US I don't believe China would have done what it did.

Nevertheless , There is nothing to be proud of facing off a giant countries and a superpower , in reality its foolish and people of Vietnam paid a heavy price for the their leader's misadventure.
 
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China sent merely 100.000 border garrison troops.
merely 100.000 border troops ??Kunming Military Region (later abolished), Chengdu Military Region, Wuhan Military Region (later abolished) and Guangzhou Military Region eqipped with tank and jet fighter are border troops ??
Chinese forces

On February 17, a PRC force of about 200,000 supported by 200 Type 59, Type 62, and Type 63 tanks from the PRC People's Liberation Army (PLA) entered northern Vietnam.[27] The Chinese force consisted of units from the Kunming Military Region (later abolished), Chengdu Military Region, Wuhan Military Region (later abolished) and Guangzhou Military Region, but commanded by the headquarters of Kunming Military Region on the western front and Guangzhou Military Region in the eastern front.

Some troops engaged in this war, especially engineering units, railway corps, logistical units and antiaircraft units, had been assigned to assist North Vietnam in its war against South Vietnam just a few years earlier during the Vietnam War. Contrary to the belief that over 600,000 Chinese troops entered North Vietnam, the actual number was only 400,000. However, 600,000 Chinese troops were mobilized, of which 400,000 were deployed away from their original bases during the one month conflict. Around 400 tanks (specifically Type 59s) were also deployed[citation needed].
the elite PLA were all stationed long the China Soivet border preparing for a full scale war with USSR

The Chinese troop deployments were observed by US spy satellites, and the KH-9 Big Bird photographic reconnaissance satellite played an important role.[citation needed] In his state visit to the US in 1979, the Chinese paramount leader Deng Xiaoping was presented with this information and asked to confirm the numbers. He replied that the information was completely accurate. After this public confirmation in the U.S., the domestic Chinese media were finally allowed to report on these deployments
Sino-Vietnamese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
beijingwalker said:
the elite PLA were all stationed long the China Soivet border preparing for a full scale war with USSR.
But what kind of better weapons did they equipped ?? Can't call 'elite PLA' when they didn't have better weapons.
beijingwalker said:
]and the war only lasted for less than two weeks and in that short span of time the whole North Vietnam fell.it was too short to be called a war ,in China we just call it a short punitive expedition.and we destroyed your country's north territory.can you do the same in China?you can't even touch a grass on our side of the land.
Bcz your PLA couldn't fight any more after only few weeks so they had no more choice but a shameful retreat and left it ally Pol Pot high and dry, so u should blame on the stupid tactic of your PLA that made PLA troops had No guts to fight anymore instead of avoiding it's a war.

Do I need to explain again why we didn't care about touching to a land of a billion of hungry peasants ??
beijingwalker said:
US spy plane??lol..we would shoot them down if we saw them,like what we did for you so many time in US Vietnam war.and I
Shoot them down, you bowed down shamefully and begged for US's support to attack small VN, so how dare you to shoot them down ??
Deng-Xiaoping_1_1.jpg

The Chinese troop deployments were observed by US spy satellites, and the KH-9 Big Bird photographic reconnaissance satellite played an important role.[citation needed] In his state visit to the US in 1979, the Chinese paramount leader Deng Xiaoping was presented with this information and asked to confirm the numbers. He replied that the information was completely accurate. After this public confirmation in the U.S., the domestic Chinese media were finally allowed to report on these deployments.Sino-Vietnamese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
beijingwalker said:
don't know why you always bring up the war that you lost more than 30 years ago when China was even poorer and more ill equiped than Vietnam,PLA didnt' even have helmets at that time.but 30 years passed,China now has everything and the money.we don't even need to send troops and our airforce and missiles can bomb you back to stone age.
Simple reason: your tactic still like idiot, your training still so terrible with poor quality, your soldier's morale still low with NO real experience in real combat.

Some kind of weapon upgrade can't help you win in the battle when your soldier's morale still too low and willing to run away to save their own @$$.
 
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Chinese democracy activist Wei Jingsheng told western media in 1980 the Chinese troops had suffered 9,000 deaths and about 10,000 wounded during the war. But the new leaked information indicates that China only suffered 6,954 lost.
Vietnamese casualties

Like their counterparts in the Chinese government, the Vietnamese government has never announced any information on its actual military casualties and both military and civilian casualty figures are either unknown or unverifiable.

Casualties and losses
Claimed by Vietnam: 10,000 civilians killed, no figures of military,estimate casulties:30,000 killed, 32,000 wounded

Who suffered more,you lost 10,000 civilians alone,and no civilian loss on China side,and your whole north destroyed,so who suffers more.lol..
 
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Just for the record , Vietnam got hammered from all sides due to

North Vietnam attacking South Vietnam effectively wiping off 1-1.5 million Vietnamese

Then , Communist Vietnam attacked China ally Cambodia.

for which China got a nod from United states before it attacked Vietnam, so without US I don't believe China would have done what it did.

Right.
Nevertheless , There is nothing to be proud of facing off a giant countries and a superpower , in reality its foolish and people of Vietnam paid a heavy price for the their leader's misadventure.
Freedom is not free .
 
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On March 6, China declared that the gate to Hanoi was open and that their punitive mission had been achieved. On the way back to the Chinese border, the PLA destroyed all local infrastructure and housing and looted all useful equipment and resources (including livestock), completely paralyzing the economy of northern Vietnam.[5] The PLA crossed the border back into China on March 16. While China claimed to have crushed the Vietnamese resistance, Vietnam claimed that China had mostly only fought against border militias. This allowed both sides to claim military victory, as both sides claimed to have taught their opponent a lesson.

Who suffered more ,lol,it took years for you to rebuild your north ,and to China it's just like a military exercise.lol..
 
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Who suffered more,you lost 10,000 civilians alone,and no civilian loss on China side,and your whole north destroyed,so who suffers more.lol..
Lost 10,000 civilians and 10 millions civilian were born after that.

The whole north infrastructure was built by China's money, you destroyed it, then, we don't have to pay back the debt.

But China lost its reputation badly in 1979 coz she left her ally Pol Pot high and dry, so now, No one in ASEAN wanna ally with weak China any more.
 
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aftermath

To reduce Vietnam's military capability against China, the Chinese implemented a "scorched-earth policy" while returning to China, causing extensive damage to the Vietnamese countryside and infrastructure.Although Vietnam continued to occupy Cambodia, China successfully mobilized international opposition to the occupation, rallying such leaders as Cambodia's deposed king Norodom Sihanouk, Cambodian anticommunist leader Son Sann, and high-ranking members of the Khmer Rouge to deny the pro-Vietnam regime in Cambodia diplomatic recognition beyond the Soviet bloc. China improved relations with ASEAN by promising protection to Thailand and Singapore against "Vietnamese aggression". In contrast, Vietnam's decreasing prestige in the region led it to be more dependent on the Soviet Union, to which it leased a naval base at Cam Ranh Bay.

Border skirmishes continued throughout the 1980s, including a significant skirmish in April 1984.

Armed conflict only ended in 1989 after the Vietnamese agreed to fully withdraw from Cambodia.

This conflict also saw the first use of the Type 81 assault rifle by the Chinese and a naval battle over the Spratly Islands in 1988. In 1999 after many years of negotiations, China and Vietnam signed a border pact, though the line of demarcation remained secret.There was a very slight adjustment of the land border, resulting in land being given up to China, which caused the widespread complaints within Vietnam.
 
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