KFX/IFX News and Development

[Indos]

KAI prepares smart factory for KF-21 fighter

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is planning to develop a new ‘smart factory’ to support the production of its new KF-21 Boramae fighter aircraft.

www.janes.com

 

[Titanium100]

I keep reading conflicting news on KFX. At hand it is massively overrated and another underrated. How good is the build in tech and how good is it's stealthiness. I heard it has it's petrol carrier outside rather then inside all in all can someone knowledgeable shed some light on this thing

 

[Indos]

I keep reading conflicting news on KFX. At hand it is massively overrated and another underrated. How good is the build in tech and how good is it's stealthiness. I heard it has it's petrol carrier outside rather then inside all in all can someone knowledgeable shed some light on this thing

KFX/IFX will be developed in stages and base on plan, it will have three blocks where second and third blocks will make it more stealthy. Internal weapon bay is for next block, but first block is already quite stealthy that make them can look and lock SU 35 faster than the opponent.

The airframe already use composite material and it can become stealthier if the plane only carry 4 missiles in the belly which is made in semi recessed (hiding the missile heat and also lowering RCS). The belly is in modular so block 1 logically can be upgraded into block 2 with internal weapon bay.

Since the start of development, the team has put target that block 1 can defeat SU 35, I can give you the news in 2014 where KFX/IFX engineer from Indonesian side talk about this.

This can be some kind of snapshot about KFX/IFX block 1 capability

 

[Indos]

 

[SgtGungHo]

I keep reading conflicting news on KFX. At hand it is massively overrated and another underrated. How good is the build in tech and how good is it's stealthiness. I heard it has it's petrol carrier outside rather then inside all in all can someone knowledgeable shed some light on this thing

Think of cheaper F-18 E/F Super Hornet with a bit of reduced RCS. Nothing special.

 

[dr.knowhow]

Think of cheaper F-18 E/F Super Hornet with a bit of reduced RCS. Nothing special.

I'm not so sure if it's really going to be cheaper since the Block 3 Super Bugs are around $50 million a piece flyaway. KF-21 is aimed to be something around $60 million flyaway. I would say more capable since it's got its weight saved from not being a ship-borne aircraft like Super Bug and probably has better kinematic capabilities, since better T/W ratio and more advance flight control model (uses the same on to the F-35, the NLDI model). Add to that the external design like serpentine ducts or planform alignment for reduced radar signature and IRST which the SH doesn't have, although sure, the SH also has some RO design features like planform alignment of its tails and intake or radar blockers in front of each engines. SH also has a higher internal fuel capacity.

Apart from that it's really a fighter jet that makes sense because its made by Koreans for Koreans. Probably costs less when counting the procurement costs compared to when procuring foreign fighter jets or potentially less life-cycle costs as well. Ease of maintenance (ROKAF receives parts for FA-50 in average within 30 days, compared to 200~300 days on average for KF-16s and F-15Ks depending on which part which even goes as far as 500 days or more in some cases) and also freedom to do whatever ROKAF wants with the aircraft helps as well, starting from simple maintenance to weapons integration and as far as modification or development of a new variant. US once got really pissed because they "suspected" that the Koreans tried to repair Tiger Eye IRSTs on F-15Ks by themselves. Remember, not found out but suspected. In the end they've found no evidence but put more restrictions regarding the maintenance of US made parts. No need to worry about those stuff concerning KF-21.

Problem is those merits mostly not apply for KF-21's potential customers. They would probably need to buy it for higher procurement costs compared to ROKAF. Parts delivery would take longer than for ROKAF and maintenance would be restricted in the same way some of the sensitive maintenance work of US made fighters in ROKAF are restricted. They would have no source codes for the mission computer and obviously wouldn't be able to modify anything unless agreed with Korea.

That's why I still think it's worth it while staying pessimistic about its success in sales overseas.

 

[dr.knowhow]

I keep reading conflicting news on KFX. At hand it is massively overrated and another underrated. How good is the build in tech and how good is it's stealthiness. I heard it has it's petrol carrier outside rather then inside all in all can someone knowledgeable shed some light on this thing

It's your typical 4.5th generation aircraft with some more radical stealth feature compared to conventional 4.5th generation aircrafts.

It's avionics for instance is totally 4.5th gen. There's nothing to argue about it. It also lacks MAWS unlike some of the other 4.5th gen aircrafts like Rafale or EF Typhoon but at least Air National Guard F-15EXs and USN F-18E/F Block IIIs also don't have them so there's an excuse.

Well at least it has higher data fusion capability compared to current 4.5th gen aircrafts like Rafale or Typhoon according to Korean documents, as it is JDL 1 compared to JDL 0 of euro canards. But euro canards are evolving as well becoming Tranche 4 or Standard F4 and beyond so they're keeping up the pace on their side as well. I've heard EPAWSS on F-15EX is bleeding edge as well and since the US wasn't willing to sell it to anybody apart from Japan until now, I would probably believe it. Then It would be hard to argue that the KF-21 EW suite would better the EPAWSS equipped F-15EXs since those technologies are basically from F-35.

I would still say that despite the lack of saw tooth panels, conformal IRST and stuff the overall design is way more inclined towards stealth and that's what makes this bird really stand out among other 4.5th gen aircrafts. It's got RAM almost everywhere and more important parts like wing leading edge are made out of RAS. It's also got a space reserved for IWB which is going to remain empty for a while. Theoretically speaking, there shouldn't be major issues installing the IWB to the pre-existing jets structurally, although some re-wiring would be needed to send power to ammunition ejectors, bay doors and other stuff. So who knows if it could be a bit more stealth in the future.

Anyways even without the IWB, I'll say a 4.5th generation aircraft with lower radar signature figures compared to legacy 4.5th gen fighters.

 

[Indos]

 

[Indos]

 

[Indos]

I suggest the program to not producing 4,5, and 6 prototypes next year. Better wait for the flight test of two flying prototypes (+ 1 tested in land) and see whether there are some flaws or possible improvement we can posibly make after some flight test show some meaningful result.

Next 4,5, and 6 prototypes should be an improvement of the previous prototype and IMO should be started being built in middle of 2023 instead of 2022.

Any way we cannot trust wind tunnel test at 100 %, trust level should be at 80 %, while another 20 % should be taken from flight test to have more understanding about the design real performance.

So when the plane inshaAllah reach mass production phase, we can be hopefully sure that the design is really perfect and can reach all the requirements.

Basically T 50 Golden Eagle design is highly helped by a very experience Lockheed Martin. So KAI should not see T 50 Golden Eagle development as something that can be applied in KF 21/IFX by seeing how well the wind tunnel could predict the actual design performance of T 50 Golden Eagle that match the requirement.

KF 21/IFX design still get LM assistant since 2015 but the basic design is actually not much different with C 103 design that are made by smaller team of ADD Korea and Indonesian team (Indonesian Aerospace and Bandung Institute of Technology) where LM is not present.

Any way we cannot trust Western assistance 100 %, since it is not their own project and the plane can actually challenge F 35 and their other plane ( F16 block 70).

It is also happening when Indonesian Aerospace get some foreign assistance from Airbus when we develop N 250. We found some flaw on the plane when the flight test has been conducted in meaningful rate. Maybe it becomes the reason of why our newer project which is N 219 is 100 % developed by Indonesian engineers and expert with no foreign assistance and even no hired foreign engineer as well.

I believe Indonesian engineers who are part of KF 21/IFX development program really understand about this from the development of N 250 and N 219 that both have undergone wind tunnel and flight test at meaningful time (around 300 hours flight test).

 

[Indos]

Some Korean analyst/ strategists worried about Indonesian plan to acquire fighters at this period that could decrease Indonesian possible KF 21/IFX acquisition beside the already 48 planes.

As I said many times here, Jokowi administration is very economic centric and pro local defense industry. All defense acquisition should pass two stages, which is Planning Ministry and then Finance Ministry.

Planning ministry has previously accepted 1.6 billion USD foreign loan to finance fighter acquisition, but later Finance Ministry slash the figure further and only approve 1.1 billion USD. It is actually the same figure approved for SU 35 deal in Jokowi first term that has been now scrapped due to CATSAA.

Source

Rafale Bidikan Prabowo & Kemampuan Lenders Belanja Pertahanan

Isu pembiayaan Rafale adalah bagian dari ambisi Kementerian Pertahanan (Kemenhan) untuk melakukan percepatan pembangunan kekuatan melalui pengadaan senjata.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

The acquisition of 1.1 billion USD worth of fighters and its necessary equipment is still rational since it is intended for F 5 squadron where all the planes have been long grounded. The squadron now get 3 Su 32 planes which is borrowed from another squadron as interim solution to keep the F 5 squadron pilots skill while waiting for new fighters to come

Once the new administration appear in the late of 2024 inshaAllah, KF 21/IFX program will be near its completion for first block inshaAllah. As we have law to forbid any foreign defense equipment acquisition that can be replaced by products made by our local industry, so KF 21/IFX will likely become the bulk of fighters for Indonesia Air Force until the next decades.

IMO Prabowo is unlikely becoming next Indonesian President. Particularly after his reckless plan to acquire foreign made weapon using huge foreign loan get leak and now become backlash to his present image. I would say next month survey will likely see his popularity come down.

Recent survey has shown Anies Baswedan, Jakarta Governor, lead.

 

[Indos]

 

[lcloo]

CCTV reported that unconfirmed news circulating in Korea that they are taking apart the the just completed first proto=type for unknown reason. Awaiting photo confirmation.

 

[Indos]

CCTV reported that unconfirmed news circulating in Korea that they are taking apart the the just completed first proto=type for unknown reason. Awaiting photo confirmation.

The news saying that they try to assemble it too fast to match Prabowo visit is not true. Prabowo main reason to visit Korea at that time is to attend KFX/IFX roll out ceremony, not something else. The invitation to attend KFX/IFX roll out has been given by DAPA Minister who came to Jakarta in late March.

Jokowi also appeared on the ceremony through video call, so there is actually no real problem if the physical visit is not done because pandemic can always be used as reason.

 

[Indos]

This is the latest that second prototype has undergone ground test while first prototype you see on the background with blue color (prepared for flight test) is still completely in tact.