KF-X / IF-X stealth fighter aircraft of South Korea & Indonesia (images)

[Indos]

 

[Kompromat]

What is Indonesia's role in this project?

 

[ANPP]

What is Indonesia's role in this project?

A confomred order from customer.

 

[Indos]

What is Indonesia's role in this project?

It is a joint production, we have sent about 35-37 engineers to help the project, beside that we provide 20 % funding. Other related industries like our radar and electronics also has been urged to contribute, I have posted the article about it but in Indonesian language (our military thread). When the program was postponed we keep conducting research in Indonesia.

Korean Fighter Experiment (KFX)
Indonesian Fighter Experiment (IFX)

 

[Kompromat]

It is a joint production, we have sent about 35-37 engineers to help the project, beside that we provide 20 % funding. Other related industries like our radar and electronics also has been urged to contribute, I have posted the article about it but in Indonesian language (our military thread). When the program was postponed we keep conducting research in Indonesia.

Korean Fighter Experiment (KFX)
Indonesian Fighter Experiment (IFX)

Why doesn't it have internal bays?

 

[ANPP]

Why doesn't it have internal bays?

Nope, no internal bay. It is meant to be partial stealth not complete stealth.

 

[Indos]

Why doesn't it have internal bays?

It has......

 

[Indos]

 

[Indos]

S. Korea Opts for Twin-Engine Fighter Development

Jul. 19, 2014 - 03:45AM |
By JUNG SUNG-KI |

SEOUL — The South Korean military has chosen to equip its future fighter jet with two engines instead of one amid lingering worries over the economic and technical merits of the twin-engine aircraft development.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) held a top decision-making council Friday to make a choice about the number of engines for the KF-X jet, which is to be developed indigenously with technical assistance from a foreign partner.

South Korea aims to produce 120 or more KF-X aircraft after 2025 to replace the Air Force’s aging F-4s and F-5s, most of which will be decommissioned before the mid-2020s. The KF-X could be on par with an advanced F-16 jet armed with high-end avionics systems.

“The JCS formed a task force to review the costs, requirements and development schedules for the KF-X over the eight months,” JCS spokesman Eom Hyo-sik said. “As a result, the task force reached a decision that a twin-engine aircraft is a right choice as it meets future operational needs and can help catch up with neighboring countries’ aircraft development trends.”

Given the potential development period for a twin-engine jet, the spokesman said, the KF-X jet’s initial operating capability is to be scheduled for 2025, a two-year delay from the original goal.

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) is set to launch a bid for the engine contract as early as next month. Candidates would include the GE F414 and Eurojet EJ200, according to DAPA officials.

The JCS’ decision on the twin-engine platform comes amid heated debate over the feasibility of the KF-X jet development. The state-funded Korea Institute for Defense Analysis (KIDA) vehemently opposed the twin-engine design, citing high costs and technical challenges.

The KIDA assessed the KF-X development would cost about 9.6 trillion won (US $93 billion), but it expects the cost would be doubled if the jet is a twin-engine design.

The institute also claims an F-16 class jet with double engines doesn’t have a competitive edge in the export market dominated by US and European fighter aircraft.

“A new fighter aircraft is a massive endeavor at the best of times, and wildly unrealistic technical expectations do not help the project,” Lee Ju-hyung, a senior researcher at the KIDA said.

Kim Dae-young, a member of the Korea Defense and Security Forum, a Seoul-based private think tank, was worried if potential cost overruns would eventually hinder the development of indigenous avionics systems.

“Under the original KF-X plan, [active electronically scanned array] radars and other avionics shall be developed locally, but if development costs increase, those systems are likely to be adopted from foreign defense companies inevitably,” Kim said.

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) also preferred a single-engine type on the basis of its T-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainer jet co-developed by Lockheed Martin.

“Lockheed Martin has committed to providing several hundred man-years of engineering support for Korea’s KF-X project and several hundred thousand pages of relevant fighter aircraft technical data,” Lockheed spokesman Eric Schnaible said.

In recent years, KAI successfully fielded T-50’s lightweight fighter version, the FA-50, which were exported to Indonesia and the Philippines.

During an air and defense fair in October, KAI displayed a conceptual design with a 29,000-pound engine.

“A single-engine concept is in pursuance of both affordability and combat performance based on the advanced FA-50 technologies,” a KAI official said.

On the other hand, the Air Force, backed by the state-run Agency for Defense Development (ADD), brushed off concerns over costs overruns and technical difficulties.

“The KF-X is a 4.5-generation fighter that can carry weapons of 20,000 pounds or more,” an Air Force spokesman said. “Indonesia, a partner of the KF-X project, is supposed to buy a bunch of jets, and when mass production starts, the costs will go down.”

The spokesman added that a twin-engine aircraft larger than the KF-16 will provide more room for future upgrades and will help cope with growing air powers in the neighborhood — China and Japan — which are accelerating air force modernization.

Lee Dae-yeol, head of ADD’s KF-X project team, argues that a fighter with a new concept has better economic feasibility in terms of total life-cycle costs.

“The ADD has secured about 90 percent of independent technologies for the KF-X,” Lee noted. “Of the 432 technologies needed, the agency is only short of 48 items, such as engines and some avionics systems.”

The ADD hopes that it will be able to get those lacking technologies in offsets from Lockheed Martin, the successful bidder for South Korea’s F-X III fighter jet development program, and other foreign companies.

The ADD envisions that a KF-X Block 2 would have internal weapons bay, and Block 3 would feature stealth improvements to the level of the B-2 bomber or F-35 joint strike fighter.

Indonesia is the only KF-X partner at the moment. Indonesia is to bear 20 percent of the projected development costs, while the Korean government will take 60 percent. The funding for the remaining 20 percent remains unclear, as KAI is expected to bear part of the money. ■

Email: jsungki@defensenews.com.

S. Korea Opts for Twin-Engine Fighter Development | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[dr.knowhow]

KIDA, once more trying to interrupt the development of KFX / IFX ; enemy inside.

Korea Institute for Defense Analysis or so called KIDA is once more trying to interrupt the development of KFX. Recently before several months, they have announced the '7th feasibility study' which got massive oppositions from civilians and medias. Currently, they are delaying the '7th feasibility test with many ridiculous reasons to interrupt the development of Korean indigenoud fighter jet, KFX. They are already known as the objectors of KFX, which they are even doubt as the 'traitors' of the country, foolish and once more, ridiculous. The consultations with Lockheed Martin as TAC (Technical Advisory Company) and Indonesia as partner has been done and the budget for R&D has been secured. I and many other Koreans currently cannot understand this action, which if this continues, the development of KFX is delayed once more until next year. What Korean government should do is to ignore KIDA and continue the development process. KIDA should be disbanded for KFX's smoother development,

 

[Indos]

KIDA, once more trying to interrupt the development of KFX / IFX ; enemy inside.

Korea Institute for Defense Analysis or so called KIDA is once more trying to interrupt the development of KFX. Recently before several months, they have announced the '7th feasibility study' which got massive oppositions from civilians and medias. Currently, they are delaying the '7th feasibility test with many ridiculous reasons to interrupt the development of Korean indigenoud fighter jet, KFX. They are already known as the objectors of KFX, which they are even doubt as the 'traitors' of the country, foolish and once more, ridiculous. The consultations with Lockheed Martin as TAC (Technical Advisory Company) and Indonesia as partner has been done and the budget for R&D has been secured. I and many other Koreans currently cannot understand this action, which if this continues, the development of KFX is delayed once more until next year. What Korean government should do is to ignore KIDA and continue the development process. KIDA should be disbanded for KFX's smoother development,

Good to see Korean here....

I hope the project will be restarted soon, Indonesia is still continuing the research until now.....

 

[Qweset]

@Red Mahura I guess KIDA has a valid point.They estimate that KFX would cost north of $150bil for the government. Currently Korea's social security and welfare are not in good position and tax base is not that strong. The chaebol dominated economy doesn't help either. I think I've heard that Korean government already struggles with providing the elderly with basics of life. Such a project would only add to woes. With the aging of the Korean society government needs to increase the tax. Any increase in consumption tax would hurt Korean already weak consumption(Korea is an export driven economy with strong export and weak domestic consumption) and increase in corporate tax will encourage the companies to move out of Korea. I think Korea needs to cut all these unnecessary projects otherwise it will end up like Japan; a bankrupt and poor country which can only see its standards of life quickly going down.
Japan currently and lost decades suffered the same problem. After the consumption tax hike in 1995 they suffered from low consumer spending and deflation. High corporate tax made Japan unatractive for both foreign and domestic companies. This along with deflation severely hurt investment in Japanese economy which resulted in lost technological edge and inefficencies in infrastructure and workforce so no one wanted to hire Japanese workforce and public debt soured so the Japanese got poorer so they spent less which resulted in deflation and the death cycle repeated itself. In the meantime eorporate executive mindset changed from innovation to cost cutting and this is why you see no big Japanese company be born and already powerful ones get weaker day by day.
So do you want Korea to follow the same path? They worry about such scenario.

 

[raazh]

• KF-X jet’s initial operating capability is to be scheduled for 2025
• The KIDA assessed the KF-X development would cost about 9.6 trillion won (US $93 billion), but it expects the cost would be doubled if the jet is a twin-engine design.
• “A new fighter aircraft is a massive endeavor at the best of times, and wildly unrealistic technical expectations do not help the project,” Lee Ju-hyung, a senior researcher at the KIDA said.
• Kim Dae-young, a member of the Korea Defense and Security Forum, a Seoul-based private think tank, was worried if potential cost overruns would eventually hinder the development of indigenous avionics systems.
• “Under the original KF-X plan, [active electronically scanned array] radars and other avionics shall be developed locally, but if development costs increase, those systems are likely to be adopted from foreign defense companies inevitably,” Kim said.
• The KF-X is a 4.5-generation fighter
• The funding for the remaining 20 percent remains unclear, as KAI is expected to bear part of the money.

All of these statements seen collectively do not paint a very encouraging and positive picture of the KF-X program. Why would you invest $93Bil into a 4.5 generation program and wait till 2025-2030 period. Would be better if they buy Euro fighter, Rafale, Gripen and get local assembly / production rights. KAI has done excellent with the F16K and F15K programs.

If money and time in indeed not an issue (crazy) then the second best option will still be to join Turkey and maybe also rope in Japan rather then go all alone in such a risky project where they still be importing the engines, avionics and other things .. KAI official is obviously biased in favor of T-50 but he is not that crazy in his views indeed.

 

[dr.knowhow]

Good to see Korean here....

I hope the project will be restarted soon, Indonesia is still continuing the research until now.....

We need Indonesia's attention on this and also their help to avoid KIDA getting involved in KFX. They don't have any plans but they just want to stop KFX ongoing.

 

[dr.knowhow]

@Red Mahura I guess KIDA has a valid point.They estimate that KFX would cost north of $150bil for the government. Currently Korea's social security and welfare are not in good position and tax base is not that strong. The chaebol dominated economy doesn't help either. I think I've heard that Korean government already struggles with providing the elderly with basics of life. Such a project would only add to woes. With the aging of the Korean society government needs to increase the tax. Any increase in consumption tax would hurt Korean already weak consumption(Korea is an export driven economy with strong export and weak domestic consumption) and increase in corporate tax will encourage the companies to move out of Korea. I think Korea needs to cut all these unnecessary projects otherwise it will end up like Japan; a bankrupt and poor country which can only see its standards of life quickly going down.
Japan currently and lost decades suffered the same problem. After the consumption tax hike in 1995 they suffered from low consumer spending and deflation. High corporate tax made Japan unatractive for both foreign and domestic companies. This along with deflation severely hurt investment in Japanese economy which resulted in lost technological edge and inefficencies in infrastructure and workforce so no one wanted to hire Japanese workforce and public debt soured so the Japanese got poorer so they spent less which resulted in deflation and the death cycle repeated itself. In the meantime eorporate executive mindset changed from innovation to cost cutting and this is why you see no big Japanese company be born and already powerful ones get weaker day by day.
So do you want Korea to follow the same path? They worry about such scenario.

Your point of view is interesting though Korea is a place where they spent 22 trillion won or 18.3 billion dollars for 'four rive refurbishment project' in 3 years and 20 trillion won / 18.1 billion dollars for gender equality in one year. KFX is a project which will consume 8.6 trillion won through more 10 years and about 22 trillion won for purchase and lifetime maintenance. This project is not a project that can shake Korean economy, Mister. South Korea is 15th most economically developed country in the world, it is the member of OECD and G20. The chaebol is growing anyways, like Samsung, LG, Hyundai, i.e and these major companies or so-called chaebol is not only a pessimistic being to Korean economy, but who keeps the minor companies alive. How can KFX shake Korea, would you explain?

Also Japan is currently in 30 years long economic depression, so called 'the lost 10 / 20 / 30 years'. Still they are spending humongous amount of money every year for their aerospace industries and recently conducting ATD-X / i3 fighter jet project.