Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA

[Dillinger]

After crimea they are under tremendous pressure

No amount of pressure will ever force them to relinquish critical technologies associated with hot section designing and fabrication, TBCs like YSZ (lab samples of which have already been fabricated in India) or other critical tech. There is only one nation is the world which was willing to part with critical engine tech, said nation has already been tapped out. No JV will help us.

Kaveri's de-linking from the Tejas project came too late as it is. I do not understand how the current article has provided any new information in any way. Neither the Mark-1 nor the Mark-2 will ever be operationally utilized with the Kaveri engine, even if the said engine achieves the required attributes by then. The contents of the article will be news only to those who've been living under a rock.

 

[IND151]

No amount of pressure will ever force them to relinquish critical technologies associated with hot section designing and fabrication, TBCs like YSZ (lab samples of which have already been fabricated in India) or other critical tech. There is only one nation is the world which was willing to part with critical engine tech, said nation has already been tapped out. No JV will help us.

Kaveri's de-linking from the Tejas project came too late as it is. I do not understand how the current article has provided any new information in any way. Neither the Mark-1 nor the Mark-2 will ever be operationally utilized with the Kaveri engine, even if the said engine achieves the required attributes by then. The contents of the article will be news only to those who've been living under a rock.

This is something new for me, can you please name that nation?

 

[Dillinger]

This is something new for me, can you please name that nation?

Ukraine

 

[he-man]

No amount of pressure will ever force them to relinquish critical technologies associated with hot section designing and fabrication, TBCs like YSZ (lab samples of which have already been fabricated in India) or other critical tech. There is only one nation is the world which was willing to part with critical engine tech, said nation has already been tapped out. No JV will help us.

Kaveri's de-linking from the Tejas project came too late as it is. I do not understand how the current article has provided any new information in any way. Neither the Mark-1 nor the Mark-2 will ever be operationally utilized with the Kaveri engine, even if the said engine achieves the required attributes by then. The contents of the article will be news only to those who've been living under a rock.

Thats true.
Then we need to get down and start making a new engine on our own,there is no other way

 

[IND151]

Ukraine

As I expected.

Let me guess, they offered help in early 1990s as they themselves needed money but the deal didn't take place.

And now they will not enter JV with us.

 

[narcon]

Ukraine

What aircraft jet engine is manufactured by Ukraine?

Breaking News:

 

[Dillinger]

What aircraft jet engine is manufactured by Ukraine?

Breaking News:

View attachment 24560

None as such. All the engine tech (specially in terms of material tech) that they possess are fruits of their history (Soviet Union). They never produced many Korshuns either, didn't stop them from happily selling every bit of the technology involved to those who would pay top dollar for it (China).

As I expected.

Let me guess, they offered help in early 1990s as they themselves needed money but the deal didn't take place.

And now they will not enter JV with us.

No, to the best of my knowledge they never overtly offered us help in this area.

Thats true.
Then we need to get down and start making a new engine on our own,there is no other way

Nothing wrong with the design as such, India needs to progress further in material tech and invest in critical infra required for testing engines. As such, a new engine will still be derived from the Kaveri itself. Bridging the engine gap will take time.

 

[narcon]

None as such. All the engine tech (specially in terms of material tech) that they possess are fruits of their history (Soviet Union). They never produced many Korshuns either, didn't stop them from happily selling every bit of the technology involved to those who would pay top dollar for it (China).



No, to the best of my knowledge they never overtly offered us help in this area.



Nothing wrong with the design as such, India needs to progress further in material tech and invest in critical infra required for testing engines. As such, a new engine will still be derived from the Kaveri itself. Bridging the engine gap will take time.

Do you know how complex is the Aero Engine Technology?
Advanced country like Sweden, which produces jet fighters can not make one.
Jet Engine (Pratt and Whitney types) has more than 100K pcs.
It is simple to reply like this: Ukraine
But think beyond!

And I have lived in Sweden and Norway combined for nearly 4 years..

 

[Dillinger]

Do you know how complex is the Aero Engine Technology?
Advanced country like Sweden, which produces jet fighters can not make one.
Jet Engine (Pratt and Whitney types) has more than 100K pcs.
It is simple to reply like this: Ukraine
But think beyond!

And of course engine tech means having the blue prints for a whole engine right? Ukraine happens to have a lot of left over knowledge of nickle based super alloys and TBCs, not enough to make an engine ab initio but more than enough to allow a nation such as India or China a leg up in their projects and ambitions.

 

[narcon]

More, Ukraine's best brain left their shores for Russia/China?europe for hefty dollars.

 

[Dillinger]

More, Ukraine's best brain left their shores for Russia/China?europe for hefty dollars.

Not that. If someone could hand us the premium formula for say YSZ and the production engineering details involved in its applications then that alone would mean a decade's worth of expertise being accrued for us. On the other hand it has taken us years to just get to the point where we can fabricate small batches of the same in a lab. That's where the difference lies, add enough of such inputs together and things become easier. Try and cook up each and every component on your own and in an ab initio manner and you end up with a long lag time between initiation of R&D and actual utilizable results.

 

[Aarush]

Obviously, question is how we are going to do it?

Building a turbofan engine on own is enormous, resource draining and very complex task.

No nation will help us to develop turbofan engine.

can't we copy the tech, sounds crazy but.......yes it is indeed a complex task but in short time we will achieve the goal.....yes it is illegal..but national interest should come first either legally or illegally....otherwise wait for decades...no nation will give us and by the time we develop, they would develop the next generation engines..

 

[narcon]

And of course engine tech means having the blue prints for a whole engine right? Ukraine happens to have a lot of left over knowledge of nickle based super alloys and TBCs, not enough to make an engine ab initio but more than enough to allow a nation such as India or China a leg up in their projects and ambitions.

Ukraine is in tatters.
Stop yr (this) dialogue..

Coming to your "Blueprint"
If a nation, never ever made a single jet engine on its OWN, what blueprints are you talking of?
Who would buy such a so called blueprint?

Not that. If someone could hand us the premium formula for say YSZ and the production engineering details involved in its applications then that alone would mean a decade's worth of expertise being accrued for us. On the other hand it has taken us years to just get to the point where we can fabricate small batches of the same in a lab. That's where the difference lies, add enough of such inputs together and things become easier. Try and cook up each and every component on your own and in an ab initio manner and you end up with a long lag time between initiation of R&D and actual utilizable results.

India HAS produced its prototype, something that Sweden has NOT.
Which (Sweden) is more advanced than India.
India needs some crucial help in this engine technology. But certainly not from Ukraine - which has nothing adequate to offer to India to fulfill their deficiency.

Russia YES.
Refine your thinking please.

 

[Dillinger]

Ukraine is in tatters.
Stop yr (this) dialogue..

Coming to your "Blueprint"
If a nation, never ever made a single jet engine on its OWN, what blueprints are you talking of?
Who would buy such a so called blueprint?




India HAS produced its prototype, something that Sweden has NOT.
Which (Sweden) is more advanced than India.
India needs some crucial help in this engine technology. But certainly not from Ukraine - which has nothing adequate to offer to India to fulfill their deficiency.

Russia YES.
Refine your thinking please.

Soviets made A LOT of jet engines among other things, the data/tech/blueprints were left by the Soviets when the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic became plain old Ukraine. Comprende?

 

[he-man]

can't we copy the tech, sounds crazy but.......yes it is indeed a complex task but in short time we will achieve the goal.....yes it is illegal..but national interest should come first either legally or illegally....otherwise wait for decades...no nation will give us and by the time we develop, they would develop the next generation engines..

We couldn't do it in 20-30 years,what will we achieve now