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Kashmiris must be allowed to decide their future: Imran Khan

Buddhists? Lol. All of them?

Some probably like hindus. That doesn’t make any difference though. Fact is sikhs and hindus were British implants in north punjab and violence against colonists isnt genocide.
 
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A bharti cannot tell what Kashmiri can or cannot do. Try coming to Azad Kashmir with ill agenda...

India really not expecting in future to get any of your part of Kashmir...It is just political talk to continue with status quo....Unless otherwise, there is a big war where Pakistan defeat India, unfortunately, no one from India will be ready to even discuss about Kashmir as a part of the dispute between India and Pakistan
 
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Some probably like hindus. That doesn’t make any difference though. Fact is sikhs and hindus were British implants in north punjab and violence against colonists isnt genocide.
Now that we have that clear. Do you have any source that British "implanted" them.
 
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Now that we have that clear. Do you have any source that British "implanted" them.

Check demographics census of region census by census and you will know what kind of fucked up things British did.
 
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Let's have a referendum for Pakistan first before talking about referendum for Kashmir.
lol keep this attitude and the shit will keep hitting the fan for you.
Pakistan is final but india is not ,india is a wide geographical term it,s not really a country.
Let,s have a referendum for khalistan,assam,naxalites and kashmir.
 
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J&K being part of India
Now that is a fiction which even india knows yet fails to accept!

Shimla agreement:

4. In order to initiate the process of the establishment of durable peace, both the Governments agreed that:

  • (i) Indian and Pakistani forces shall be withdrawn to their side of the international border.
    (ii) In Jammu and Kashmir the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971 shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognized position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line.

    (iii) The withdrawals shall commence upon entry into force of this Agreement and shall be completed within a period of 30 days thereafter.

6. Both Governments agree that their respective Heads will meet again at a mutually convenient time in the future and that, in the meanwhile, the representatives of the two sides will meet to discuss further the modalities and arrangements for the establishment of durable peace and normalization of relations, including the questions of prisoners of war and civilian internees, a final settlement of Jammu and Kashmir and the resumption of diplomatic relations.


India doesnt even honor this final settlement! You see, if Kashmir was part of india like Bombay or Delhi, you wouldnt need BOTH GOVT and BOTH sides to agree on something...I mean when was the last time Delhi was told to sit down with us on a final settlement of something within its borders?


@HalfMoon kindly stop trolling with crap when your own govt violates its own agreements!
 
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Let's have a referendum for Pakistan first before talking about referendum for Kashmir.

Here in India most people (during that period) believe the partition (especially based on religion) itself was unfair.

When Pakistan was established in August 1947, it was constitutionally composed of only those areas of British India which had opted for it.

The British allowed the Muslims to establish a separate homeland for themselves, but only on the basis of the will of the people and through democratic channels.



In Balochistan, the Shahi Jirga and the members of the Quetta municipality voted to join Pakistan on behalf of British Balochistan. It was decided to hold a referendum in Balochistan on June 30, 1947 in Shahi Jirga excluding the Sardars nominated by the Kalat state and non-officials members of Quetta Municipality. That would decide the future affiliations of Balochistan. An extraordinary joint Session of the Shahi Jirga was held on 30 June 1947 to decide the crucial issue. To the dismay of the Congress, 54 members of the Shahi Jirga and Quetta Municipality, voted en-bloc to join the new Constituent Assembly to be set up in Pakistan.



In Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (KPK), the British allowed for a referendum on the issue of Pakistan.. Polling began on 6 July 1947 and the referendum results were made public on 20 July 1947. According to the official results, there were 572,798 registered voters. 289,244 (99.02%) votes were cast in favor of Pakistan. Only 2874 (0.98%) were cast in favor of India. The resulting referendum in July 1947, showed overwhelming support for the new country and so KPK was included in Pakistan.

Punjab and Bengal legislatures voted for partition.

The Sindh assembly was the first British Indian legislature to pass the resolution in favour of Pakistan.


Before that, General elections were held in British India in 1945 to elect members of the Central Legislative Assembly and the Council of State

The Muslim League participated in the elections with a clear cut agenda –

1) Pakistan is the national demand of the Muslims of India and
2) The Muslim League is their sole representative organization.

The turnover was extra ordinary. Leagues performance was even more impressive as it managed to win all the 30 seats reserved for the Muslims. The results of the provincial election held in early 1946 were not any different. Muslim League captured approximately 95 percent of the Muslim seats.



So, Pakistan was "democratically" created in accordance with the the will of the people.
 
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When Pakistan was established in August 1947, it was constitutionally composed of only those areas of British India which had opted for it.

The British allowed the Muslims to establish a separate homeland for themselves, but only on the basis of the will of the people and through democratic channels.



In Balochistan, the Shahi Jirga and the members of the Quetta municipality voted to join Pakistan on behalf of British Balochistan. It was decided to hold a referendum in Balochistan on June 30, 1947 in Shahi Jirga excluding the Sardars nominated by the Kalat state and non-officials members of Quetta Municipality. That would decide the future affiliations of Balochistan. An extraordinary joint Session of the Shahi Jirga was held on 30 June 1947 to decide the crucial issue. To the dismay of the Congress, 54 members of the Shahi Jirga and Quetta Municipality, voted en-bloc to join the new Constituent Assembly to be set up in Pakistan.



In Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (KPK), the British allowed for a referendum on the issue of Pakistan.. Polling began on 6 July 1947 and the referendum results were made public on 20 July 1947. According to the official results, there were 572,798 registered voters. 289,244 (99.02%) votes were cast in favor of Pakistan. Only 2874 (0.98%) were cast in favor of India. The resulting referendum in July 1947, showed overwhelming support for the new country and so KPK was included in Pakistan.

Punjab and Bengal legislatures voted for partition.

The Sindh assembly was the first British Indian legislature to pass the resolution in favour of Pakistan.


Before that, General elections were held in British India in 1945 to elect members of the Central Legislative Assembly and the Council of State

The Muslim League participated in the elections with a clear cut agenda –

1) Pakistan is the national demand of the Muslims of India and
2) The Muslim League is their sole representative organization.

The turnover was extra ordinary. Leagues performance was even more impressive as it managed to win all the 30 seats reserved for the Muslims. The results of the provincial election held in early 1946 were not any different. Muslim League captured approximately 95 percent of the Muslim seats.



So, Pakistan was "democratically" created in accordance with the the will of the people.

The issue is not everyone got to vote. British created Muslim reserved seats and on top of that only a portion of the Muslims were allowed to vote. Hindus never got a chance to vote for or against Pakistan.

Are you okay if India conducts a referendum where only some representatives of Hindus and Buddhists of J&K are allowed to choose if they want to be part of India or not?

Now that is a fiction which even india knows yet fails to accept!

Shimla agreement:

4. In order to initiate the process of the establishment of durable peace, both the Governments agreed that:

  • (i) Indian and Pakistani forces shall be withdrawn to their side of the international border.
    (ii) In Jammu and Kashmir the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971 shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognized position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line.

    (iii) The withdrawals shall commence upon entry into force of this Agreement and shall be completed within a period of 30 days thereafter.

6. Both Governments agree that their respective Heads will meet again at a mutually convenient time in the future and that, in the meanwhile, the representatives of the two sides will meet to discuss further the modalities and arrangements for the establishment of durable peace and normalization of relations, including the questions of prisoners of war and civilian internees, a final settlement of Jammu and Kashmir and the resumption of diplomatic relations.


India doesnt even honor this final settlement! You see, if Kashmir was part of india like Bombay or Delhi, you wouldnt need BOTH GOVT and BOTH sides to agree on something...I mean when was the last time Delhi was told to sit down with us on a final settlement of something within its borders?


@HalfMoon kindly stop trolling with crap when your own govt violates its own agreements!


Yes. Pakistan fooled India. What Indian military won on the ground, Indira lost at the diplomatic table.


Did Bhutto outwit Indira Gandhi?
1306067g.jpg


To Understand the political climate prevalent in the subcontinent in June-July 1972, when the Simla Conference was held, it is necessary to recall the events that preceded it - events that altered some basic perceptions that the Pakistan leadership had held dear. The emergence of Bangladesh as a sovereign state had starkly shown the inadequacy of religion as the sole basis of nationality. It also repudiated the two-nation theory and struck a deadly blow to Pakistan's claim, implicit as well as explicit, that it spoke on behalf of the Muslims of the subcontinent. Bhutto was acutely conscious of this fundamental change of context and he stated this frankly in his preliminary conversation with Indira Gandhi. He referred critically to his own views on these subjects, which he had articulated in extremely bellicose language earlier. He even lamented the tripartite division of the Muslim community in the subcontinent and hoped that, in the new circumstances, the community would become a strong force for peace and stability in the region.Furthermore, Bhutto said he was convinced by the events of 1971 that Pakistan could not acquire Kashmir via military intervention. In March 1972, a month before the meeting of emissaries in Murree, he told Indian journalists that a settlement of the Kashmir issue would emerge on the basis of a "line of peace" and that the right of self-determination, in his view, was not to be exported from outside. "Kashmir troubles me a lot," Bhutto said. He did not want its dark shadow looming over Indo-Pak. relations. He wanted his countrymen to get over the trauma of the emergence of its eastern wing as a separate independent state as quickly as possible and concentrate on making the now smaller Pakistan a prosperous country. He told Indira Gandhi in his meeting with her on July 1: "I have been saying in Pakistan: how can we fight for rights of Kashmiris? I have prepared public opinion for days ahead. But we cannot do it under compulsion." Bhutto was personally inclined to accept the status quo as a permanent solution to the Kashmir problem. However, he had several constraints in this regard which he spelt out as follows:

(a) His political enemies at home, especially the army bosses, would denounce him for surrendering what many in Pakistan considered their vital national interest. This would endanger the democratic set-up which had emerged after fourteen years of army rule. In this context, Bhutto repeatedly talked about his fear of what he called the Lahore lobby, though he never clearly explained what it was.

(b) He was anxious to obtain the support of all political elements in Pakistan in favour of any agreement that might emerge at Simla. He made this point at the beginning of the conference, while apologising for bringing with him an unusually large delegation, consisting of about 84 members, who represented the entire political spectrum of Pakistan. He wanted all members of the delegation to support and be committed to the outcome of the conference. He said there should be no dissenters in his delegation when he left Simla. He was probably thinking of his own negative role vis-a-vis Ayub Khan after the Tashkent Declaration in 1966.

Bhutto was very keen on the support of Aziz Ahmed, who led the Pakistan negotiating team. Ahmed was Pakistan's senior-most civil servant and carried great weight in the ranks of its bureaucracy. He also had the reputation of being a hardliner. Ahmed's support would secure Bhutto the support of Pakistan's officialdom, which constituted a very powerful segment of the country's political elite.

Aziz Ahmed was against enlarging the agenda to include Kashmir. But he yielded ground when the Indian side explained it was not insisting on an immediate and formal acceptance of the status quo, which they believed could be looked upon as the imposition of harsh terms by the victor in war. P. N. Haksar, who had assumed the leadership of the Indian team when D. P. Dhar suddenly took ill, felt that such a move might nurture a revanchist ideology in Pakistan. He reminded his colleagues of the consequence of the Treaty of Versailles and persuaded them against doing anything which could be the basis of another war. The Indian side therefore put their proposal in a low key and in an indirect manner by proposing that the name of the line dividing India and Pakistan in Jammu and Kashmir be changed from the "cease-fire line" to the "line of control". Aziz Ahmed objected to this. He pointed out quite rightly, that the proposed change in terminology would mean a change in the status of the line. He put forth this view vehemently and said he was not prepared to accept the change in nomenclature.

* * *

In the afternoon meeting on July 2, which was to consider the third and last Indian draft agreement, Aziz Ahmed said: "This is our last meeting... Pakistan cannot accept that the ceasefire line has ceased to exist. That is the main reason why we are not accepting the Indian draft." For the Indian side this was a retreat from the statement made by Bhutto in his previous day's meeting with Indira Gandhi in the presence of officials. In that meeting, after Aziz Ahmed's remark that "We have agreed to everything except Kashmir", Bhutto intervened and said: "I have, in a way, agreed to Kashmir being resolved by peaceful means... As regards the Kashmir dispute, an agreement will emerge in the foreseeable future. It will evolve into a settlement. Let there be a line of peace; let people come and go; let us not fight over it."

The transformation of the ceasefire line into the line of control was the core of the Indian solution to the Kashmir problem. The de facto line of control was meant to be graduated to the level of a de jure border. Since no agreement was reached on this point, negotiations were called off and the curtain came down on five days of hectic negotiations which had begun with great hopes throughout the subcontinent. This was the afternoon of July 2. The Pakistan delegation was scheduled to leave Simla the next morning.

Soon, word spread that the conference had failed. Media men rushed off to announce the failure. In the midst of this enveloping gloom Bhutto asked to see Mrs. Gandhi and a meeting was fixed for 6 p.m. at the Retreat, where she was staying. When Bhutto came to see Mrs. Gandhi, he met P.N. Haksar and myself briefly and said: "You officials give up too easily". Mrs. Gandhi and Bhutto then met for an hour while Haksar and I waited in the adjoining room. Emerging from his tete-a-tete with Mrs. Gandhi, Bhutto looked pleased and said, "we have settled the matter and decided to give you some work to do before dinner." After we saw Bhutto off, Mrs. Gandhi briefed us on what had transpired.

Mrs. Gandhi elaborated the merits of the Indian proposal in the following terms: It was the only feasible solution. An important feature of the proposal was that neither country was gaining or losing territory on account of war. It did not involve transfers of population from one side to the other. Kashmiris as an ethnic community were left undivided on the Indian side. The line of control was therefore largely an ethnic and linguistic frontier. In fact in 1947, at the time of partition, it was also an ideological frontier, being the limit of the political influence of Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah and his National Conference party. True, there were some anomalies in this otherwise neatly etched picture, but these, Mrs. Gandhi pointed out, could be removed by mutual consent.

Bhutto resounded with feeling and apparent sincerity. After long reflection he had come to the conclusion that the Indian proposal was the only feasible one. But he could not agree to incorporating it in the agreement for the reasons he had stated earlier. He would, however, work towards its implementation in practice and over time. Mrs. Gandhi herself was worried that a formal withdrawal of the Indian claim on Pak-occupied Kashmir could create political trouble for her. She agreed that the solution should not be recorded in the agreement for the reasons advanced by Bhutto, but it should be implemented gradually, as he had suggested.

It was also agreed that the understanding would not be a written one. The insertion of secret clauses in the agreement was considered inconsistent with the desire to build a structure of durable peace. It was decided, however, that the agreement would be worded in a manner that would not create difficulties of implementation for Pakistan. This resulted in some last-minute negotiations which were carried on during the return banquet of the president of Pakistan on the eve of his departure for his country. Thus, some clauses included in the draft agreement had to be deleted to accommodate Bhutto.

The most important part of the agreement, sub-clause 4(ii), says: In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the ceasefire of December 17, 1971 shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognised position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line. The phrase "without prejudice" to the recognised position of either side was a concession to Bhutto to save him from domestic critics. The second and third sentences were assumed to prevent the abuse of this concession and to lay the foundation for a future settlement of the Kashmir issue.

* * *

Bhutto also knew that the Government of India had opened a dialogue with Sheikh Abdullah. He realised that India was in effect meeting the demand of separatist Kashmiris for representation at India-Pak negotiations on Kashmir via simultaneous but separate talks with Sheikh Abdullah. From his own sources and from reports in the Indian press he was aware of the probability of the Sheikh joining Indian mainstream politics. He knew that the ban on the Sheikh's entry into Kashmir was about to be removed. And when it was removed, three weeks after the Simla conference, the Sheikh told his audience in Srinagar that the tragic events of Bangladesh had proved how correct Kashmiris were in rejecting union with thecoratic Pakistan. The Sheikh's withdrawal of his demand for a plebiscite was expected to help Bhutto face the criticism of people at home.

* * *

Bhutto agreed not only to change the ceasefire line into line of control, for which he had earlier proposed the term "line of peace", he also agreed that the line would be gradually endowed with the characteristics of an international border (his words). The transition was to take place in the following manner. After the resumption of traffic between India and Pakistan across the international border had gained momentum, the movement of traffic would be allowed at specified points across the line of control. At these points of entry, immigration control and customs clearance offices would be established. Furthermore, Pakistan- occupied Kashmir would be incorporated into Pakistan. To begin with, Bhutto's party would set up its branches there, and later the area would be taken over by the administration. India would make proforma protests in a low key (This is what actually happened in 1974, when Bhutto made Azad Kashmir constitutionally a province of Pakistan without much protest from India). It was thought that with the gradual use of the line of control as the de facto frontier, public opinion on both sides would become reconciled to its permanence. In the meanwhile, the opening of trade and commerce and cooperation between India and Pakistan would result in easing tensions between the two countries. When Mrs. Gandhi, after recounting their points of agreement, finally asked Bhutto: "Is this the understanding on which we will proceed? He replied, "Absolutely, aap mujh par bharosa keejiye (you can rely on me).

One of Bhutto's aides, who was also very close to the Americans, fully briefed James P. Sterba (the New York Times correspondent) on the understanding that this leader had reached with Mrs. Gandhi. In his news analysis, which appeared within hours of the signing, Sterba, after referring to the inflexible positions of the two governments on the Kashmir problem, wrote: "these positions have been drummed into the minds of the peoples of each side to the point where any compromise would be viewed largely as a "sell out" in both countries. And for years, such a sell out would have probably toppled the rulers who agreed to it". Sterba added:

President Butto, Pakistan's first civilian leader in fourteen years, came to Simla ready to compromise. According to sources close to him, he was willing to forsake the Indian held two- thirds of Kashmir that contains four-fifths of the population and the prized valley called the 'Vale', and agree that a ceasefire line to be negotiated would gradually become the border between the two countries. The key word is 'gradually' (emphasis added)... President Bhutto wants a softening of the ceasefire line with trade and travel across it and a secret agreement with Mrs. Gandhi that a formally recognised border would emerge after a few years, during which he would condition his people to it without riots and an overthrow of his Government.

This was the understanding between the leaders of the two countries and this was the Simla Solution of the Kashmir problem. The agreement that was signed at Simla in the first hour of July 3, 1972 was the launching pad for an implementation of the Simla Solution. Some Pakistanis maintain that recent events in Kashmir have overtaken the agreement, while Indians insist that the dispute should be resolved through bilateral negotiations, as stipulated under it. This debate misses the crucial point that the Simla Agreement provided not only a mechanism for the solution of the Kashmir problem but also envisaged the solution itself.

The Simla Solution seemed the only way in which the political leadership of the two countries could resolve their conflicting claims over Kashmir. It is still the only way that remains open to them. To be sure, the aspirations of Valley Muslims need to be satisfied. The Indira-Abdullah Accord, which was an answer to this question, has come unstuck due partly to New Delhi's hamhandedness and largely due to the growth of Muslim fundamentalism in the Valley, as also because of the massive intervention of Pakistan, in flagrant violation of the Simla commitments. Had the Simla understanding been converted into the final solution of the problem, the Kashmir issue would have simply become an internal problem for India, namely one of altering the existing centre-state relations in a manner that would satisfy the Kashmiri demand for greater autonomy.

* * *


It was in the context of an utter disregard for the Simla commitments by Pakistan that I decided to make public the substance of the Simla understanding. I did this through a two- part article which was published in the Times of India in April 1995. Pakistani response to this came in an avalanche of statements and comments from the government, political leaders, columnists, and editorial writers questioning the veracity of what I had said. About the only person in authority who did not react was Pakistan's Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto.

The expressions of disbelief in the existence of a verbal understanding between Indira Gandhi and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto were often accompanied by high praise of what Humayun Gauhar called Bhutto's diplomatic artistry. Writing on this subject in the Political and Business Weekly of May 15, 1995, Gauhar wrote:

If it took a private talk between Mr. Bhutto and Mrs. Gandhi in which he made certain commitments to her but which he was clever enough not to have written down in the Simla Agreement or on a separate piece of paper, then it was diplomatic artistry of the highest order. He would have known wn better than anyone else that such a private secret agreement, which is only verbal, was worthless. Face it Mr. Dhar, even if we accept what you say, Mr. Bhutto fooled your Prime Minister.

Gauhar explains the nature of Bhutto's artistry in Bhutto's own words. Three months before the Simla Conference Bhutto told Oriana Falaci, the Italian journalist: "Well, in politics you sometimes have to have light and flexible fingers... have you ever seen a bird sitting on its eggs in the nest? Well, a politician must have fairly light, fairly flexible fingers, to insinuate them under the bird and take away the eggs. One by one . Without the bird realising it."

Commenting on Pakistani rejoinders to my article, Alistair Lamb, the well-known author of several books on the Kashmir question (in which he has vigorously supported Pakistan's point of view), says: "Pakistani refutations of P. N. Dhar's claims (that Z. A. Bhutto did privately agree with the Indian Prime Minister that this was exactly the way in which the Kashmir problem would be settled, with the line of control being allowed to evolve gradually into an international border) have not to date been particularly impressive or convincing though circumstances have removed over the years any significance they may ever have possessed... Its essential veracity has been implied by Akram Zaki, former Pakistan Secretary General, Foreign Affairs". In India too my article was widely noted by the media and the predominant view was not very different from that of Humayun Gauhar, namely that India had lost on the negotiating table what its armed forces had gained in the battlefield.

Extracted from: Indira Gandhi: The Emergency and Indian Democracy,


P. N. Dhar, Oxford University Press, Rs.545.

https://www.thehindu.com/2000/02/06/stories/1306067g.htm
 
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Kashmiris deserve to have their voices heard be it Hindus and Muslims. I think they should partition the land between Muslims and Hindus.
 
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The issue is not everyone got to vote. British created Muslim reserved seats and on top of that only the portion of Muslims were allowed to vote. Hindus never got a chance to vote for Pakistan.

The Indian National Congress represented Indian Hindus, and it was the Congress, not Muslim League, that rejected the Cabinet Mission Plan of 1946. It was Nehru's and Gandhi's refusal to accept the plan that divided India in 1947.


Are you okay if India conducts a referendum where only some representatives of Hindus and Buddhists of J&K are allowed to choose if they want to be part of India or not?

Yes, It will be justified if the representatives of Hindus and Buddhists minorities of J&K are allowed to choose to accede the Hindu and Buddhist majority parts of Kashmir to India. .. Muslim minority of British India was given a similar choice ... Muslim majority parts of British India became Pakistan, the Hindus, as they were in majority, got the much larger part of British India.
 
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Yes, It will be justified if the representatives of Hindus and Buddhists minorities of J&K are allowed to choose to accede the Hindu and Buddhist majority parts of Kashmir to India. .. Muslim minority of British India was given a similar choice ... Muslim majority parts of British India became Pakistan, the Hindus, as they were in majority, got the much larger part of British India.

I think this is the most reasonable solution to the problem in Kashmir.
 
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The Indian National Congress represented Indian Hindus, and it was the Congress, not Muslim League, that rejected the Cabinet Mission Plan of 1946. It was Nehru's and Gandhi's refusal to accept the plan that divided India in 1947.

Both India nor Pakistan were still dominions and not independent republics when J&K accession document was accepted by Lord Mountbatten, the British Governor General of India

Either you accept all acts of British or you do not. You cannot just cherry pick what suits you.

JK1.jpg


JK2.jpg



https://thewire.in/history/public-first-time-jammu-kashmirs-instrument-accession-india


Yes, It will be justified if the representatives of Hindus and Buddhists minorities of J&K are allowed to choose to accede the Hindu and Buddhist majority parts of Kashmir to India. .. Muslim minority of British India was given a similar choice ... Muslim majority parts of British India became Pakistan, the Hindus, as they were in majority, got the much larger part of British India.


When Hindu majority of the subcontinent did not have a vote to create Pakistan, why should Muslim majority in J&K need a vote?

Again you are just cherry picking what suits you.

Either we start with valid plebiscite for Pakistan or accept J&K accession to India.

If J&K accession to India is not valid then Pakistan as a country is also not valid.
 
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But do mind that every favour will be reciprocated wherever it matters. ;)

Karma's not real.

Well keep. On repeating the same broken record. It ain't gonna change anything on ground.

The ground situation is Kashmiris don't like you lol. I remember on Facebook they were all cheering about Muhammad Bin Qasim, and the Indians got so offended that their fellow citizens could do such a thing. It was hilarious.

The reason why we had a Hindu, Sikh, Muslim etc. as or P.M's and presidents throughout history is more than enough to prove the fact.

You've never had a real Muslim lead your country ever since the last Mughal bit the dust.

We are in a good if not better position compared to you.

:cheesy:

So what were they centuries ago?

North Punjabis in general or the ancestors of the people currently living there? If you mean north Punjabis prior to Islam, then most of them were Buddhist with a few Hindus here and there (especially among the elite). If you mean the ancestors of modern-day north Punjabis, Zoroastrians and Arab pagans get chucked into the mix as well.

Hinduism is inherently secular

More like inherently contradictory.
 
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Both India nor Pakistan were still dominions and not independent republics when J&K accession document was accepted by Lord Mountbatten, the British Governor General of India


JK1.jpg


JK2.jpg



https://thewire.in/history/public-first-time-jammu-kashmirs-instrument-accession-india

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^^ This document is bogus. In 1995 Indian authorities claimed that the original copy of the treaty (letter of accession) was either stolen or lost

International law clearly states that every treaty entered into by a member of the United Nations must be registered with the Secretariat of the United Nations. "The Instrument of Accession" was neither presented to the United Nations nor to Pakistan. Hence India cannot invoke the treaty before any organ of the United Nations


Either you accept all acts of British or you do not. You cannot just cherry pick what suits you.

Mountbatten accepted the Instrument of Accession in the capacity of the Governor General of India, not as the Viceroy of British India. Moreover, Mountbatten stated that this accession was subject to approval by the people of Kashmir. So, your argument is invalid.

When Hindu majority of the subcontinent did not have a vote to create Pakistan, why should Muslim majority in J&K need a vote?

Again you are just cherry picking what suits you.

Either we start with valid plebiscite for Pakistan or accept J&K accession to India.

Hindu majority of the subcontinent got the major part of Indian land, they were only not given a choice to decide the future of the Muslim minority.

Similarly, Muslim majority in J&K too should get their share of land. Hindu minority can decide their own future,

Do you get it now?
 
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