Kashmiri Pundit : What was done to them by Kashmiri Muslims

[indushek]

@KS @Joe Shearer @Capt.Popeye @sandy_3126 @Bang Galore

Comments please.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Good that you edited it, otherwise others also have right to draw analogy.

Anyway do you think that there was no problem in IOK before 89?

No, there was no problem in Jammu and Kashmir before 1989.

 

[KRAIT]

No, there was no problem in Jammu and Kashmir before 1989.

I am surprised to see few people in my social circle who didn't know of this story.

We are again not learning from History.

 

[Sugarcane]

No, there was no problem in Jammu and Kashmir before 1989.

That's your version of story and that as credible as Pakistan's version.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Anything from UN human rights organisations, Amnesty Intl & dedh sara NGOs based in India, on the plight of these Kashmiri Pandits? Then again... who am i kidding? they are there only to look after culprit's interest... not victim's!!

 

[Bratva]

No, there was no problem in Jammu and Kashmir before 1989.

1984: Maqbool Butt was hanged on February 11, 1984 in Tihar Jail in New Delhi after his conviction on the charge of killing an Indian intelligence officer.


1987: Farooq Abdullah wins the elections. The Muslim United Front (MUF) accuses that the elections have been rigged. The insurgency in the valley increases in momentum from this point on, given the consistent failure of democracy and limited employment opportunities. The MUF candidate Mohammad Yousuf Shah is not only cheated in the rigged elections, but also imprisoned and he would later become Syed Salahuddin, chief of militant outfit Hizb-ul-Mujahedin; His election aides called the HAJY group -Abdul Hamid Shaikh, Ashfaq Majid Wani, Javed Ahmed Mir and Mohammed Yasin Malik- would join the JKLF.
Balraj Puri, Kashmir: Towards Insurgency, New Delhi 1993, p.52

Amanullah Khan takes refuge in Pakistan, after being deported from England and begins to direct operations across the LoC; Young disaffected Kashmiris in the Valley such as the HAJY group are recruited by JKLF.

1988: Protests begin in the Valley along with anti-India demonstrations, followed by police firing and curfew.

1989: End of Soviet occupation of Afghanistan releases a great deal of militant energy and weapons to Kashmir. Pakistan provides arms and training to both indigenous and foreign militants in Kashmir, thus adding fuel to the smouldering fire of discontent in the valley.

1990: In January, Jagmohan is appointed as the Governor; Farooq Abdullah resigns. On 20 January, an estimated 100 people are killed when a large group of unarmed protesters are fired upon by the Indian troops at the Gawakadal bridge. With this incident, it becomes an insurgency of the entire population.

Kashmir | Timeline 1987-1998

What happened in 2010 was done in 1990. Pakistani aided the insurgency not orchested the insurgency. If you people had removed grieviances of Kashmiris in 1990 or in 2010, you would not have faced such things.

 

[Screambowl]

I am surprised to see few people in my social circle who didn't know of this story.

We are again not learning from History.

I have a Kashmiri friend and he is a Muslim. The version he told me was totally opposite but he accepted that Kashmiri pandits were forced to leave. He said kashmiri Pandits were at higher position and did not allow Muslims to come in top brass so there was a revolution. But these facts were wrong about Kashmiri pandits not allowing any Muslim at high positions. But If this was the fact he would have not admitted in a school where the owner and director was a Kashmiri pandit.

 

[KRAIT]

When curfew is imposed and security forces are pelted with stones, what choice security forces have. It happened in 1990 when threats were made to Hindus, killed, forced to evict their homes by these "peaceful" protesters.

 

[Screambowl]

1984: Maqbool Butt was hanged on February 11, 1984 in Tihar Jail in New Delhi after his conviction on the charge of killing an Indian intelligence officer.


1987: Farooq Abdullah wins the elections. The Muslim United Front (MUF) accuses that the elections have been rigged. The insurgency in the valley increases in momentum from this point on, given the consistent failure of democracy and limited employment opportunities. The MUF candidate Mohammad Yousuf Shah is not only cheated in the rigged elections, but also imprisoned and he would later become Syed Salahuddin, chief of militant outfit Hizb-ul-Mujahedin; His election aides called the HAJY group -Abdul Hamid Shaikh, Ashfaq Majid Wani, Javed Ahmed Mir and Mohammed Yasin Malik- would join the JKLF.
Balraj Puri, Kashmir: Towards Insurgency, New Delhi 1993, p.52

Amanullah Khan takes refuge in Pakistan, after being deported from England and begins to direct operations across the LoC; Young disaffected Kashmiris in the Valley such as the HAJY group are recruited by JKLF.

1988: Protests begin in the Valley along with anti-India demonstrations, followed by police firing and curfew.

1989: End of Soviet occupation of Afghanistan releases a great deal of militant energy and weapons to Kashmir. Pakistan provides arms and training to both indigenous and foreign militants in Kashmir, thus adding fuel to the smouldering fire of discontent in the valley.

1990: In January, Jagmohan is appointed as the Governor; Farooq Abdullah resigns. On 20 January, an estimated 100 people are killed when a large group of unarmed protesters are fired upon by the Indian troops at the Gawakadal bridge. With this incident, it becomes an insurgency of the entire population.

Kashmir | Timeline 1987-1998

What happened in 2010 was done in 1990. Pakistani aided the insurgency not orchested the insurgency. If you people had removed grieviances of Kashmiris in 1990 or in 2010, you would not have faced such things.

sir in 1986 in anantnag crisis what do you have to say on. Point is Jagmohan was not there yet.

 

[Thorough Pro]

It's a talk show from indian media, do you have any neutral source which can verify all these claims?

Look at the section. If you guys can discuss Kashmiri terrorist hanging, we can't discuss Kashmiri Pundits forced to move out.

And an Indian can post about Indian problems.

I wonder you all will call it propaganda.

@arp2041 Your thoughts.

they are fighting oppressive foreign occupier forces involved in war crimes of mass murder, looting, destruction and rape of local muslim population.

Did you even saw that video. There are terrorist within Kashmir. You guys paint it as war crimes. First check what LeT and JeM did in Kashmir.

BTW what's your take o plight of Kashmiri Pundits ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Talking about his book Palimpsest, the American literary great Gore Vidal made the interesting observation that "a memoir is how one remembers one's own life, while an autobiography is history, requiring research, dates, facts double-checked."* Judged by this definition, Rahul Pandita’s Our Moon Has Blood Clots (Random House India, 2013; p. 258; Rs. 499) is memoir and autobiography, both – for it is quite clearly how Pandita has remembered, and continues to remember, his own life even as the co-terminous historical bits that provide the overall tapestry appear to be well-researched by him. Its sub title “The Exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits” is an apt caption for the overall concern of the book, which is narrated through the memory of a young boy cut suddenly from his moorings and cast adrift, this memory growing and segueing into a memory of adulthood and late adulthood with its attendant heartbreaks and heartaches, broken dreams and hopes, always in one exile after another. And then the overlapping lives, and in turn memories, of many other people. Genre classification being an easy way to identify the type of book one has bought/ intends to buy or is inclined to read is hardly iron-clad, overlaps being rather common in contemporary literature. Many such genre-benders are around. The memoir that has close parallels with OMHBC, Curfewed Night, is one such. It has a thirteen year old Basharat Peer reconstructing his own personal life over the next decade and a half and providing a glimpse of the universal around him in the process. Rahul Pandita was a year older but his personal and universal ‘remembrance’ over the next two decades from that identical reference point is uncannily similar to that of Peer. Only that it is the ‘other’ narrative – in no way cancelling the other ‘other’ out, nor even in an adversarial space – completing, in a way, the circle of understanding. The takeoff point in both narratives is the same – January, 1990, but as Pandita perceptively observes this is also the point of divergence of ‘truths’. The point where decades or centuries of modus vivendi that came about through various little life strategies of generations of people belonging to the two communities – one a preponderant majority* – of Kashmir came suddenly unstuck. This was the clear point of rupture from where there are two sharply different perceptions of truth – at least one of them being visible till now to the world of literature while the other was unarticulated. Our Moon Has Blood Clots fills that void.
For more than two decades a dominant, self-contained and seemingly seamless narrative has sought to occupy the public mindspace as far as Kashmir, the problematique, is concerned. The separatist discourse in Kashmir has arrived at a homogenized, standardized narrative that puts the point of inflection of the underlying social tension in Kashmir in 1947, or even earlier in 1931. It has undergone a subtle change from its early expression by excising the tribal invasion of October 1947 and linking social tension to the beginning of Indian presence on October 27, 1947 thereby placing an overarching ‘nationalist’ political narrative on a social one. It would have one believe that the jackboots that became visible in the nineties were present all through the earlier years of ‘occupation’ in much the same way and tenor. For those who know their Kashmir, and most certainly for Kashmiris themselves, this will come across as a monstrous lie for Kashmir valley was demonstrably the very picture of peace in the intervening period of time that is sought to be clubbed with the period of tension at either end. This separatist or ‘nationalist’ discourse makes its own myths to formulate its ‘truth’. One may well ask here: what, after all, is the truth about Kashmir? The truth is that there are several truths about a multi-dimensional event envelope like the one Kashmir has been for more than six decades in general and during the two decades gone by in particular. Karl Popper, the eminent 20th century philosopher, says: “Whenever a theory appears to you as the only possible one, take this as a sign that you have neither understood the theory nor the problem which it was intended to solve.” Harold Pinter, the celebrated playwright, in a direct and unscripted ‘address to camera’ in his Nobel lecture in 2005 said: “Truth in drama is forever elusive. You never quite find it but the search for it is compulsive. The search is clearly what drives the endeavour. The search is your task. More often than not you stumble upon the truth in the dark, colliding with it or just glimpsing an image or a shape which seems to correspond with the truth, often without realising that you have done so. But the real truth is that there never is any such thing as one truth to be found in dramatic art. There are many. These truths challenge each other, recoil from each other, reflect each other, ignore each other, tease each other, are blind to each other. Some times you feel you have the truth of a moment in your hand, then it slips through your fingers and is lost.” Again, in the chapter ‘How not to Talk about Fictions’ in Literature against Itself Gerald Graff, the literary theorist, argues that the question which postmodernist criticism has apparently laid dead, the question whether literature makes a claim to knowledge, a claim to be true, needs to be ‘reopened’. He gives as his very simple reason for this that literary works do not merely contain sentences dealing with particulars but something more. I would go a little further and say that literary works work towards a gestalt – a paradigm more than the sum of its constituent parts that contains, within itself, a truth that is at once personal and universal, seminal and terminal.
Our Moon Has Blood Clots is unmistakably a literary work, a deeply moving account of loss, dying and ‘re-incarnation’. It would be wrong to try and situate it in the palimpsest, if you will, of competing political narratives that has come to describe Kashmir, for it is not political writing. A memoir (that incidentally contains a dazzlingly cinematic ‘memoir within a memoir&#8217 that can at the very most be called a social document by the reductionist social/ political critic (who has usurped the literary space of our times and is forever at turning art academic) – a social document that chronicles a deeply felt personal story of loss across space and time, across generations and geographies, unremitting and ever present. OMHBC neither legitimizes any politics nor delegitimizes a competing one but simply chronicles the coming apart of a society and the concomitant loss of home and hearth of a part of the same society, and for that untainted vision the author needs to be complimented. The language of OMHBC is not the chiselled, artful language of ‘high literature’. It is unpolished and a little raw, lending a charming cadence to the book that might well go on to define it stylistically. This excellently produced book is not free of copy and typographical errors, but these are minor.

That's your version of story and that as credible as Pakistan's version.

If you asked my opinion, and when it is offered, you do not accept it, why did you ask in the first place?

 

[Screambowl]

they are fighting oppressive foreign occupier forces involved in war crimes of mass murder, looting, destruction and rape of local muslim population.

You are not understanding the thread. It is about 300000 Kashmiri Pandits who have left their homes under the fear of being killed by some mob which is Muslim. Army came after Kashmiri Pandits suffered and pushed out. Why don't you understand this simple genocide?

 

[indushek]

@Joe Shearer

It seems that the video itself contains at least two distinctive narratives. Two Kashmiri Pandits saying they faced oppression from the start and were marginalized long ago and one old timer claiming peaceful times between communities and the known terror wave.

So does this mean that the Kashmiri Pandits were never accepted in the first place and were doomed to be thrown out ?? did the local Muslim populace use the aid from across the border as a tool ?? If so i am forced to ask the question how long will the valley be held with army presence not that any country can wrest it from us but from the people per se.

If the narrative lies some where middle then may be there is hope that some day in future things can change ??

 

[KRAIT]

You are not understanding the thread. It is about 300000 Kashmiri Pandits who have left their homes under the fear of being killed by some mob which is Muslim. Army came after Kashmiri Pandits suffered and pushed out. Why don't you understand this simple genocide?

The answer is in his post. He just care about Kashmiri MUSLIMS. Since when Kashmiri Pundit ever talked by any Pakistani leader ever ?

They care about the water resources and these same Kashmiri Muslims will be killed by the extremists in the name of sect, religion and definition of Kafir, just like they were killed by the terrorists for causing troubles to India.

Pakistan don't care about Kashmiri Muslims too. Otherwise the terrorist sent by them wouldn't have killed Kashmiri Muslims. Its fight of water resources control.

 

[Screambowl]

The answer is in his post. He just care about Kashmiri MUSLIMS. Since when Kashmiri Pundit ever talked by any Pakistani leader ever ?

They care about the water resources and these same Kashmiri Muslims will be killed by the extremists in the name of sect, religion and definition of Kafir, just like they were killed by the terrorists for causing troubles to India.

Pakistan don't care about Kashmiri Muslims too. Otherwise the terrorist sent by them wouldn't have killed Kashmiri Muslims. Its fight of water resources control.

But India's duty is to maintain the peace in Kashmir for both Hindus and Muslims so that no one gets thrown out again by a mob supported by some anti national elements in the name of sharia, Islam, etc. And give Justice to Kashmiri Pandits.