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Kashmiri Pundit : What was done to them by Kashmiri Muslims

@Developereo Hindu Indian Army, Are you kidding ? Dude, Indian Army has saved Muslims even in riots, leave aside terrorist attacks. We have lost 10,000 soldiers too.

Remember few comparison :

The Victim Nation | Soldiers Killed | Civilians killed

India(1989-present) | 10,000 | 70,000

Pakistan (2001-present) | 5,000 | 40,000

In both cases, there was been extrajudicial killings, war crimes, bodies dumped in isolation etc.

So tell me, why you have one problem which you clearly define as "terrorism" and other as "freedom fight".

They are two different things entirely that is why. Funny how you say this is about kashmiri pundits when someone else brings up other topics but yourself bring up Balochistan and Pakistan in every other post. Practice what you preach boy.

The majority of TTP accept themselves as Pakistani but want regime change so they are REBELS and not freedom fighters. The majority of Baloch accept themselves as Pakistani and just want more attention payed towards them while BLA only represents two out of 231 tribes in Baluchistan. Once again with so little support (you cannot even call that a minority more like a micro minority) they are just a bunch of rebels. Meanwhile in kashmir the majority want freedom from your occupation, the majority never accepted themselves as Indians EVER and therefore they are freedom fighters. Yes that includes Kashmiris on Pakistan's side because they are a part of the same region.
 
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@KingMamba93 We consider BLA as freedom fighters trying to remove Pakistan occupation of Baluchistan., just like you say about Kashmir.

As for Kashmir, terrorists sent by you have killed over 70,000 innocent men, women and children along with 10,000 soldiers. So basically these terrorists are killing same people they are supposed to fight for freedom.

BTW what these freedom fighters are doing in Mumbai hotels, railway station, local trains, Jaipur etc. killing innocent people. I thought the war is for Kashmir ?

Pakistan should keep one thing in mind, Kashmir will never be given independence nor to Pakistan. No matter whatever you try to do. We have been fighting against terrorists for 24 years.

And if Pakistan doesn't stop it, consider BLA and TTP as a trailer. We will give you same medicine but double in dosage.

Since Pakistan is using language of terrorism, Pakistan will be abused by India in same language.

I don't like Proxy wars, but if enemy doesn't changes tactics, we will use their own tactics on them.

Kashmiri Pandits: Why we never fled Kashmir - Kashmir: The forgotten conflict - Al Jazeera English:disagree:the PA isn't even in Balochistan and hasn't been for some years.....and even if they were, Balochistan is a Province of Pakistan - not a disputed or separate territory.therefore your 'comparison' (one i've seen so many times I've lost count) -- is INVALID. sorry.
PA oir FC, whatever, security forces.

And Kashmr is not disputed territory for us. We consider it as our part. We will do anything to keep it. Try anything, you won't get an inch of Kashmir. And once a govt. at Center with PM of iron fists comes in 2014. all these Kashmiri Pundits will be rehabilitated in their land.
 
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All of you Pakistanis/Kashmiris of PDF should be more vocal about this and work hard to counter this treacherous myth being peddled by the indians about "genocide of hindu pundits"

it's simply a means of discrediting Kashmiri nationalism. So do your part also and don't remain silent or apathetic about it; counter this propaganda of theirs. Thankfully now with twitter, facebook and blogosphere (despite draconian measures, threats and harassment by indian intel and security apparatus) are existing and are a good way to get undigested facts from the people of Kashmir themself --rather than Arnab Goswami or some other twits sitting in another country and talking authoritatively about Kashmiri affairs



The truth of the matter is there is or never was any kashmiri nationalism... It was a few kashmiri muslim leaders on pakistani payroll and the psuedo-ulema revivalist dimwits. Rest of it is nothing but unadulterated asymmetric warfare evident of spineless pakistani military's cowardice which failed time and again to take kashmir by force from us weak 1/10 equivalent evil hindoooos. Out of all options, ISI/pak admin tried the afghan formula in kashmir, and now the results are evident... Same cadre that once fought in kashmir now turning guns on pakistani civilians and butchering them in wholesale lots. Although the human loss is regrettable, as you sow, so shall your reap!!
 
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@KingMamba93 We consider BLA as freedom fighters trying to remove Pakistan occupation of Baluchistan., just like you say about Kashmir.

As for Kashmir, terrorists sent by you have killed over 70,000 innocent men, women and children along with 10,000 soldiers. So basically these terrorists are killing same people they are supposed to fight for freedom.

BTW what these freedom fighters are doing in Mumbai hotels, railway station, local trains, Jaipur etc. killing innocent people. I thought the war is for Kashmir ?

Pakistan should keep one thing in mind, Kashmir will never be given independence nor to Pakistan. No matter whatever you try to do. We have been fighting against terrorists for 24 years.

And if Pakistan doesn't stop it, consider BLA and TTP as a trailer. We will give you same medicine but double in dosage.

Since Pakistan is using language of terrorism, Pakistan will be abused by India in same language.

I don't like Proxy wars, but if enemy doesn't changes tactics, we will use their own tactics on them.

PA oir FC, whatever, security forces.

And Kashmr is not disputed territory for us. We consider it as our part. We will do anything to keep it. Try anything, you won't get an inch of Kashmir. And once a govt. at Center with PM of iron fists comes in 2014. all these Kashmiri Pundits will be rehabilitated in their land.

Consider whatever whoever u want,bt in the end world consider,s kashmir a disputed land?
If pakistani kashmir was held against the will of the kashmiri peoples, there should be same kind of resistance movement ,which world has seen in indian occupied kashmir?
There nothing like that, cause kashmiris live with fullfreedom under pakistan,s security assistance!
BLA, TTp, non of them can claim anything disputed, & will be finished with thier time frames?
I mean how long india or others can push them for artificial support?lol lol lol
Bt in kashmir, kashmiri peoples are unstopbles, even with no support from any where?
I think minorities of indian held kashmir should join freedom fighting instead staging paid drama,s of dehli just for the sake of money?lol
 
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Consider whatever whoever u want,bt in the end world consider,s kashmir a disputed land?
If pakistani kashmir was held against the will of the kashmiri peoples, there should be same kind of resistance movement ,which world has seen in indian occupied kashmir?There nothing like that, cause kashmiris live with fullfreedom under pakistan,s security assistance!BLA, TTp, non of them can claim anything disputed, & will be finished with thier time frames?I mean how long india or others can push them for artificial support?lol lol lolBt in kashmir, kashmiri peoples are unstopbles, even with no support from any where?I think minorities of indian held kashmir should join freedom fighting instead staging paid drama,s of dehli just for the sake of money?lol
Well Pakistani Kashmir is not attacked by terrorists unlike Indian Kashmir for past 24 years.
 
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Well Pakistani Kashmir is not attacked by terrorists unlike Indian Kashmir for past 24 years.
yes just because, it wasnt been occupied by pakistan,& kashmiris hve full rights if compared wit pakistanis?
they take active part, in every activity ?
i think its in best interst of india, to let indian held jummu & kashmir lived like hongkong at least, & thn ask pakistan do the same?
at the same time hve a mixed policing system, or UN police to adminster the both kashmirs?
& finish the dam whole thing forever?
 
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here's a VERY inconvenient truth the indians and their media would be scared & uncomfortable to share with the world:



Anecdote by 4 Kashmiri Hindus becomes VERY inconvenient truth of well-being of Kashmiri Hindus? :woot:

Why are we not surprised :lol:


All of you Pakistanis/Kashmiris of PDF should be more vocal about this and work hard to counter this treacherous myth being peddled by the indians about "genocide of hindu pundits"

All of those insulated from Religious bigotry, pseudo-ethnic superiority and inferiority complex , witness above how the opposite side functions and amuse yourself :D

it's simply a means of discrediting Kashmiri nationalism. So do your part also and don't remain silent or apathetic about it; counter this propaganda of theirs. Thankfully now with twitter, facebook and blogosphere (despite draconian measures, threats and harassment by indian intel and security apparatus)

Another paradigm text-book example of those who drag the laymen populace away from the idea of nation that failed to materialize properly, towards apathy on suffering of Kashmiri Pandits :cry:


are existing and are a good way to get undigested facts from the people of Kashmir themself --rather than Arnab Goswami or some other twits sitting in another country and talking authoritatively about Kashmiri affairs

Here is undigested facts from the people of Kashmir themself, which will leave, Pakistanis used to likes of Zaid Hamid, conspiracy theories and supreme truth anecdotes :lol: etc, constipated for eons.

surveyforpakistanchatha.png
 
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I represent Kashmiri pandits though and the other millions of non Muslims who are citizens of J and K, but you do not represent anybody not even the Kashmiri Muslims who overwhelmingly want nothing to do with Pakistan.

As i pointed out before my family is from kashmir so i represent there point as much as you represent the hindu point.

As to what they wanted - the Maharaja wanted a separate state so did the Kashmiri's - but there wasn't an option of an independent state - so might be the Kashmiri Muslim population have had a thought of joining another muslim state = but that's conjecture at the moment - but after the invasion from Pakistan they were overwhelmingly supporting the Maharaja on his decision.

If there so much "overwhelmingly supporting" for india by the kashmiris then why dont you put it to a vote?....what are you scares off? you might lose the vote and your BS will fall apart.
 
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As i pointed out before my family is from kashmir so i represent there point as much as you represent the hindu point.



.If there so much "overwhelmingly supporting" for india by the kashmiris then why dont you put it to a vote?....what are you scares off? you might lose the vote and your BS will fall apart

I am talking about what happened in 1948 - after the tribals started plundering and killing the locals were confused and supported Indian action against the invaders.

While discussing about brutalities of the Tribal attack, Khawaja Abdul Samad said: ‘Hindus and Muslims were taking refuge in separate areas. Most of the properties that belonged to Hindus had been burnt down. Many Hindus and Sikhs had been mercilessly slaughtered and most of their bodies were still lying in their homes or on the streets. In the past two days, the tribesmen had dragged numerous bodies and thrown them into the river………..Their attack had totally devastated Muzaffarabad. The homes of Hindus and Muslims were looted, shops were plundered and all the stock loaded onto trucks. Places of worship were not spared; they entered and took whatever they considered to be of value. They tore down mandirs and desecrated masjids. In their lustful search for gold, silver and rupees they even used digging equipment to search beneath the stone floors of shops. Whatever they could find would be amassed in a collective place where tribal leaders would supervise the whole process. From here, everything would be loaded onto trucks and sent on their way to the North West Frontier Province. In Muzaffarabad and its surroundings, no Muslim home was spared from this tribal bounty-hunt.’

This All Began in 1947: The Jihadist Operations of Pakistani State*|*LUBP
 
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I am talking about what happened in 1948 - after the tribals started plundering and killing the locals were confused and supported Indian action against the invaders.

The reality is shrouded under lies and half truths. To understand the truth we need to seek help from history.

Distortion of history leads to the distortion of the nations. Same has been done with the State of Jammu Kashmir right from uprising of 1931, changing of Muslim Conference into National Conference, genocide of Muslims in Jammu Province, invasion of India on 27th October, 1947 and many more. Here I would like to demystify the myth regarding tribal invasion which was actually Poonch rebellion against Dogra rule.
In World War II, of the 71,667 citizens of the State of Jammu Kashmir who served in the British Indian forces, 60,402 were Muslims. This has been cited by Josef Korbel in ‘Danger in Kashmir’ (p-55). But of these Muslims, majority was from Poonch and Mirpur.
After the war, Hari Singh (the ruler of the State at that time) fearing lest the Poonchies and Mirpuries rise against his authority after British withdrawal issued an order in July 1947 asking them to hand over whatever firearms and ammunition they had to the state authorities. Some Muslims of these areas even complied with the order but found themselves betrayed when discovered that the weapons confiscated from them turning up in the hands of their non-Muslim neighbors ——— Hindu and Sikh which constituted about 10% of the total inhabitants of that area.
The Muslims were angered and therefore sought fresh weapons from the tribes of the North-West Frontier who were well known for their manufacture of arms resulting a deep relation between the two regions which has been further testified by Victoria Schofield in her book ‘Kashmir in Conflict : India, Pakistan and the Unending War’. “This laid the basis for direct contact between the members of the Poonch resistance and the tribesman who lived in the strip of mountainous ‘tribal’ territory bordering Pakistan and Afghanistan” (p-41)
Besides this, the Muslims of the Poonch and Mirpur found themselves under duress of high taxes imposed by Hari Singh in order to regain control of these areas. “There was a tax on every hearth and every window. Every cow, buffalo and sheep was taxed and even every wife,” writes Richard Symonds who served with a group of British Quakers in Punjab as quoted by Josef Korbel in ‘Danger in Kashmir’ (p-68)
Another event of importance that occurred in the State the same month was that the General Council of All Jammu Kashmir Muslim Conference passed a resolution on 19 July 1947 to the effect that,——— on the basis of geographical, economic, linguistic, cultural and religious considerations the accession of the State to Pakistan is indispensable because more than 80% of State’s population are Musalmans (Muslims) and all the major rivers of Pakistan flowing through the Punjab have their origin in Kashmir and the people of the State are strongly linked with Pakistan by dint of their religion, culture and economics. Therefore, it is imperative that accession of State be accomplished with Pakistan.
On 12th August 1949, Cyril Radcliffe handed over final copies of Bengal and Punjab boundary awards to Mountbatten who announced the boundaries on 17th August 1947, two days after independence of India and Pakistan and the termination of the British paramountancy. With a delayed announcement, millions of people found themselves on the wrong side of the border. August 18, 1947 was Eid Day, a day of festivities for Muslims which however saw them victims of wholesale death, loot, massacre, arson, rape, abduction at the hand of Hindu and Sikh extremists.
Seeing better part of Gurdaspur District i,e two Muslim dominated tehsils, Gurdaspur and Batala, and a small portion of Shakargarh tehsil awarded to India, Muslims of the State of Jammu Kashmir, of Jammu division in particular for their proximity to the area in question, suspected a rat in the pack and grew restless, Muslims of Poonch and Mirpur the more so. The Muslims denounced Hari Singh’s right to rule the State and demanded that Jammu Kashmir should be federated to Pakistan but Dogra forces opened indiscriminate fire killing and wounding scores of peaceful demonstrators.
In Jammu city and its adjoining parts, Hari Singh’s government launched an ethnic cleansing operation against Muslims in which Dogra Army personnel took a vigorous part actively assisted by Hindu and Sikh extremists —— both local and those imported from the East Punjab.
The Hari Singh was undertaking a systematic purge of Muslims. “Certain it is that the Hari Singh government was using its Dogra troops to terrorize many Muslim villages in the neighborhood of Jammu,” writes Horace Alexander in his book ‘Kashmir’ (p-7). “Later in the year, I myself saw villages near Jammu that had been completely gutted.”
Dogra forces had wrought havoc on Muslims of the State of Jammu Kashmir and those of Jammu region particularly. Ian Stephens, editor of The Statesman (Calcutta) noted in his book ‘Pakistan’ that “unlike every part of the State, Hindu and Sikhs slightly out-numbered Muslims and within a period of about 11 weeks, starting in August, systematic savageries ——— practically eliminated the entire Muslim element in the population, amounting to 5,00,000 people. About 2, 00,000 just disappeared, remaining untraceable, having presumably been butchered.” (p-200).
On 10th October 1947, London Times gave news that “in one area 2, 37,000 Muslims were wiped out in a well conceived manner except those people who escaped to Pakistan along the border. This massacre of Muslims was done by Dogra forces of the State and Hari Singh was himself guiding (the operation).” This has been further authenticated by a renowned historian, Professor Harry Alastair Lamb in his book “Kashmir: A Disputed Legacy’, “These atrocities had been perpetrated not only by uncontrolled bands of hooligans but also by organized units of the Hari Singh army of police”. (p-123)
In retaliation of this large-scale massacre, arson, loot, rape and abduction of Muslim women at the hands of Hindu and Sikh extremists facilitated by Dogra Army, Muslim youths under the leadership of Sardar Mohammad Ibraheem Khan organized a strong army of about 50,000 in number. They got arms from here and there and started fighting the Hari Singh Dogra Army. Incidentally, this Sardar Mohammad Ibraheem Khan of Poonch was an elected Muslims Conference member of Praja Sabha who narrowly escaped arrest in Srinagar and flew secretly to Pakistan. Here he set in Muree to collect weapons and ammunition for Poonchies and Mirpuries so that they could use them in their struggle against Dogra troops.
At Muree one Khursheed Anwar, an Ex-major of British Indian Army, joined him. He was a cosmopolitan and knew Kashmir, Punjab, North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) and the tribal area very well. Sardar Muhammad Ibraheem now hoped to get weapons through him from Ilaqa Ghair where the Pakhtuns manufactured them in their own workshops.
Major Khursheed succeeded not only arranging weapons but also mustered a few dozen pathan volunteers also. They came to help out their brethren in Poonch as they had old ties with each other. Many of them were themselves descendants of pathans who had settled there during Durrani supremacy over Poonch and Kashmir.

A number of Kashmiri Muslim families from Poonch were settled in the Rawalpindi and Jehlum districts of the Punjab. In addition, the Chief Minister of the North-West Frontier Province, Khan Abdul Qayoom Khan was a Kashmiri from Poonch. (Ayesha Jalal, The State Martial Rule, Cambridge, 1990, p-58) The transfer of power by the British to the new Dominions of Pakistan and India on 14th and 15th August, 1947 brought no respite to the troubled situation which the Hari Singh now faced as an independent ruler. Unrest in Poonch had turned into an organized revolt against the Dogra rule. The Pakistani Government however believed that the uprising in Poonch was a legitimate rebellion against the Dogra rule, which was gaining increasing sympathy from the tribesmen of the North-West Frontier, who were also sympathetic to the troubles in the Punjab. The Pakhtuns came to know that the Dogra forces were killing and looting thousands of Muslims in the State of Jammu Kashmir. In order to stop the genocide of Muslims in Jammu Division of the State, a couple of thousand Wazirs, Mahsuds, Afridis and Mohmands etc slung their bundles of ammunition and rifles on their shoulders and boarded their buses and trucks to proceed to Kashmir. On 21st October, 1947 they reached at Hazara- Muzaffarabad frontier near Domel where Rawalpnidi-Srinagar roads crosses over Jhelum via a bridge which was guarded by 4th Infantry Battalion under the command of Lt. Col. Narain Singh. This Lt. Col. Was a Dogra as were half of the members of the garrison and the other half was composed of Muslims of Poonch. These Muslims soldiers had got disaffected with Dogra regime for its connivance in the ethnic cleansing of Muslims of Jammu Division including those of Poonch and Mirpur. They knew that the Dogra regime intended to accede to India and New Delhi had annexationist design over the state. Besides the presence of Patiala State infantrymen stationed at Jammu and Patiala gunners positioned at Srinagar Airfield on 17th of October 1947 could not have gone unnoticed. In order to fore-stall New Delhi’s grand design, the Domel Muslim garrison mutinied on 23rd October 1947 and killed their commander Narian Singh and majority of Dogra solders but some of them managed to board jeeps to flee towards Muzaffarabad and Uri. On hearing of the shots the Muslim Army under the command of Major Khursheed rushed towards the bridge and crossed over to Domel. The Poonch-Mirpur front was left to the command of Mohammad Zaman Kiani, an ex-INA veteran. On 24th of October 1947, All Jammu Kashmir Muslim Conference formally declared independence and announced the establishment of the Republic of Azad (free) Kashmir with advocate Sardar Mohammad Ibraheem Khan as President. When the situation in Kashmir particularly in Jammu Division developed into mass killing, the government of Pakistan and Kashmir exchanged a number of telegrams. Karachi accused Srinagar of organized expeditions against Muslims, and of the Dogra troop’s raids into West Punjab. In many such telegrams as quoted in the Security Council Official Record, Thrid year, No 1-15, pp (75-82), the Governor General of Pakstan, Quaid-i-Azam, Ali Muhammad Jinnah suggested that Prime Minister of Kashmir may visit Karachi to discuss the developments that have taken place and endorsed the suggestion made by Prime Minister of Kashmir to have an impartial inquiry made into the whole affair. But despite this, nobody from the Dogra Government came to Karachi, and no Commission to carry out an impartial inquiry was ever established. The arrival of Tribal Pathans could not have remained a secret. Their news of march in buses and trucks was communicated by George Cunningham, Governor of the North-West Frontier Province to Mountbatten, Governor General of India. ‘I am afraid the Kashmir situation is going to be serious crises’, writes George in Cunningham in his dairy on 20th October 1947. ‘My own position is not too easy,’ wrote Cunningham. “If I give my support to the movement thousand more will flock to it and there may be a big invasion; if a resist it, I have to bear the brunt if the movement fails through lack of support” he wrote in his dairy on 22nd October 1947. Cunningham however does not refer to Jinnah or any other Pakistan official either ordering or having any knowledge of a specific invasion plan. This has been further authenticated by K.H Khursheed, Jinnah’s Private Secretary “I left Karachi on October 1, 1947. My last meeting with the Quaid-i-Azam was on September 30, 1947. We discussed Kashmir for two hours. We discussed everything and the Quaid-i-Azam told me: please convey to our leader in Kashmir that I do not want to create any trouble for the Maharaja at the moment. I want them to remain calm and we shall deal with the situation later on as it arises.” (Quoted by Rajendera Sareen in his book Pakistan: The India factor, New Delhi, 1948, p-221) Government of India in order to justify their invasion on State of Jammu Kashmir launched a propaganda that there was no Poonch rebellion but that 1,00,000 ferocious Tribesman had invaded Kashmir at the instigation of Pakistan Government who looted and killed everyone coming in their way; and that they had been imparted training and supplied transport facilities by Pakistan Army. (Reflected in Jammu Kashmir Confilict by A.H Bhat p-393) Sheikh Abdullah who was released on the behest of Nehru and Patel came into existence subsequent to Indian occupation of state of Jammu Kashmir likewise launched a false propaganda that the Pathans were rapists and that they were so greedy and ignorant that they broke into the house of Kashmiri and broke open the brass handles of Samavors thinking them to be made of gold for being of the same colour. This was designed to generate hatred in Kashmir against Pakistan and tribesmen. Only a simple minded fellow could believe that the world’s finest gunsmiths could not differentiate between brass and gold (p-393). Government of Pakistan knew what was going across Jehlum as such a big operation could not remain secret. However, they did not have time nor resources at their command to finance irregular warfare in State of Jammu Kashmir. The propaganda launched by government of India and National Conference against the Poonch Rebellion labeling it as tribal invasion was a process which leads to the complete invasion of State of Jammu Kashmir on the fateful day of 27th October 1947.
 
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@dabong1...

Tribal Invasion: An American Reportage

Margaret Bourke-White was a correspondent and photographer with American magazine LIFE. She authored many books, based on her coverage of Africa, England, France, China, Russia, Italy and Germany during the Second World War. Bourke-White also covered tribal invasion of J&K in 1947-48. Her reportage on Kashmir - "Democracy in the Himalayas' and 'Struggle for Kashmir' form part of her book on India 'Halfway to Freedom' (New York, 1949).

The 'Struggle for Kashmir' deals specifically with Raiders' invasion. Bourke-White was in Pakistan when invasion was beginning. Pakistan government was reluctant to let her cross into Kashmir. They feared that an upright journalist like Bourke-White would not hesitate to tell the world truth about Pakistan's complicity in the invasion. Pakistanis trotted out excuses to put her off saying, 'there was nothing to photograph', 'it was very dangerous for a woman,' 'Tribesmen abducted women'. When she insisted on visiting places which were bases for invasion local officials escorting her would drive her over 'picturesque but deserted roads to the border of Kashmir and show her 'a breathtaking vista of mountain scenery which had fine picture-postcard value but little news value'.

On occasions Bourke-White was able to slip out unescorted and meet tribal Pashtun invaders. She narrates her conversation with one Invader leader, Badsha Gul of Mohmand tribe. Gul had brought one thousand tribals, a convoy of trucks and ammunition for invasion of Kashmir. The trucks and buses would at times come back within a day or two "bursting with loot, only to return to Kashmir with more tribesmen, to repeat their indiscriminate "liberating" - and terrorising of Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim villagers alike".

About the buses and lorries Bourke-White writes "taxi companies (in Rawalpindi) were donating twenty or ten or a couple of trucks each, the number I suppose depending on the intensity with which the owner believed the Muslims in Kashmir needed 'rescuing'.

Bourke-White debunked the myths that arms for the invasion came from tribesmen themselves, some of whom owned arms factories. She writes, "I photographed one of the larger of these munition works, belonging to the Afridi tribe. It was a rock-bound shack where five men worked. Since it took one man a month to make a rifle, it is doubtful whether all the shacks on the North-West Frontier would account for more than a fraction of the equipment with which the tribesmen poured into Kashmir during the fall of '47. Certainly these miniature ballistics establishment would hardly explain the mortars, other heavy modern weapons, and the two aeroplanes with which the invaders were equipped".

In an eyewitness account about the delivery of arms she writes, "In Pakistan towns close to the border, arms were handed out before daylight to tribesmen directly from the front steps of the Muslim League headquarters".

She makes revelations e.g. 'From Pakistan's Capital a train loaded with medical supplies and volunteer personnel left every Wednesday morning for the Kashmir frontier, "some of the 'Azad Kashmir' soldiers, taken as PoWs by the Indian army, were found to have pay books of the Pakistan Army in their pockets'.

While Bourke-White was still in Abottabad she had the opportunity to meet the nuns from St. Joseph Hospital in Baramulla who survived the carnage. They had escaped over the border at dawn. A nurse gave her a detailed description of how raiders ransacked the babies' ward on the Convent grounds. She said, "the tribesmen began smashing up X-Ray equipment, throwing medicine bottles to the ground, ripping the statuettes of saints out of the chapel, and shooting up the place generally. Two patients were killed: an Englishman and his wife who were vacationing at the mission were murdered; and two nuns were shot".

For nine days Baramulla witnessed reign of terror under the forces of occupation. About the situation in the Convent Bourke-White records, "The nuns, their hospital patients, and a few stray towns people who had taken refugee at the mission were herded into a single dormitory and kept under rifle guard. On one of these days, after an air attack from the Indian Army had left the tribesmen in a particularly escited and nervous mood, six of the nuns were brought out and lined upto be shot. It was the accident that one of them had a conspicuous gold tooth that saved the sisters. One of the riflemen wanted to get that tooth, before his colleagues had a chance at it. In the scuffle that followed, one of their chiefs arrived; he had enough vision to realise that shooting nuns was not the thing to do, even in an invasion, and the nuns were saved".

Bourke-White visited Baramulla soon after its liberation by Indian forces. She records, "The once lovely town, straddling the Jhelum River at the gateway to the Valley, was as heaped with rubble and blackened with fire as those battered Jewels of Italian towns through which many of us moved during our war in Italy...the deserted convent on the hill was badly defaced and littered...We made our way into the ravaged Chapel, Wading through the mass of torn hymnbooks and broken sacred statuary. The altar was deep in rubble". She also gives a graphic account of how martyr Maqbool Sherwani was killed by Pakistanis. Bourke-White met Sherwani's father and brothers. On seeing Sherwani's photograph Bourke-White notes, "Even the soft-focus effect of the fuzzy studio portrait could not erase the intensity of the eyes and the look of strength in the high forehead". (Sentinel Research Bureau)

Raiders' Evidence

Major General Mohammad Akbar Khan was in active service in the Pakistan Army in October 1947. He commanded the raiders under the pseudonym "General Tariq". Excerpts of his interview published in the "Defence Journal" (Karachi, June-July, 1985) are reproduced below:

Planning of the Invasion:
"A few weeks after partition, I was asked by Mian Iftikharuddin on behalf of Liaquat Ali Khan (Prime Minister of Pakistan) to prepare a plan for action in Kashmir. I found that the Army was holding 4,000 rifles for the civil police. If these could be given to the locals an armed uprising in Kashmir could be organised at suitable places, I wrote a plan on this basis and gave it to Mian Iftikharuddin. I was called to a meeting with Liaquat Ali Khan at Lahore where the plan was adopted, responsibilities alloted and orders issued. Everything was to be kept secret from the Army. In September the 4,000 rifles were issued at various places and the first shots were exchanged with the Maharaja's troops and the movement gathered weight.

He (Khurshid Anwar) had joined the Muslim League and he had been appointed commander of the Muslim League National Guards. In September 1947, when the Prime Minister launched the movement of the Kashmir "struggle" Khurshid Anwar was appointed Commander of the Northern Sector. Khurshid Anwar then went to Peshawar and with the apparent help of Khan Qayyum Khan raised the Lashkar which assembled at Abbottabad... Thereafter he (Khan Qayyum Khan) continued to take active interest in Kashmir and helped with the tribal Lashkars through the Kashmir operations."

On Looting of Non-Muslims:

"It was part of their (Pakistan Govt.) agreement with Major Khurshid Anwar of the Muslim League National Guards who was their leader that they would loot non-Muslims. They had no other renumeration". Conclusions drawn: Once a Sufferer, always a SAFFERER. (Source: kpindia, kpnetwork)

Source: Kashmir Sentinel
@dabong1...

The tribal Invasion in Kashmir
Historians have a duty to transfer truth to the posterity
FACTS ABOUT HISTORY
BARRISTER HAMID BASHANI
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In the fall of 1947, the people of Jammu and Kashmir witnessed many tragic events. The tribal invasion was one of the most tragic. It was an earth shattering event. This single event turned the course of history in the Indian sub-continent. It was a deep wound which is still bleeding. It becomes fresh and painful when some an intellectual in Kashmir tries to deny or distort this event. I have read a couple of such articles in Srinagar’s newspapers in the past couple of weeks. There could be two reasons for the denial or distortion of these events: one, lack of knowledge of these historical events; and two, intellectual dishonesty. It is the responsibility of Kashmiri intellectuals and writers to transfer the correct narratives of our history for posterity and to keep the record of our history straight. I very often write about this issue in my columns, and whenever I do so I feel like blood is dripping from my pen. I feel like I am hearing the cries of those innocent women who were robed, raped, kidnapped, and killed by the raiders. I pause and mourn for them. I feel deeply sorry. These events not only effected our past, but they also effected our present and future. These events gave birth to the Kashmir issue, a constant threat for peace in the Indian sub-continent. Therefore, it is very important to clarify the confusions around these events. The first confusion is that the tribals invaded Kashmir of their own accord to help their Muslim brothers and sisters against the oppressive regime of Maharaja Hari Sing. The second confusion is that the tribes were not involved in loot, rape, and destruction of the properties. The third confusion is that the tribes had no connection with the Pakistan military or rulers of that time. The fourth confusion is that there were no tribesmen at all, but that these fighters were actually from Poonch and Jammu who were Mujahidin, local tribes, and former military personnel from the British army. There are many books and documents on these four confusions. We also have testimonials of several people who were part of these events. But due to the limitations of this newspaper article, I will quote only those who played a fundamental role in those events; those who were an important part of the government of Pakistan and Military at that time. Among those who planned, lead, and financed the tribal invasion the most prominent was Sardar Shoukut Hayat Khan. Sardar was one of the closest confidants of Muhammad Ali Jinnah and a top leader of the Muslim League, a powerful ruling party at that time. Sardar spoke several times in the public as well as in the press about the tribal invasion of 1947.His detailed interview on this subject was published in Daily Jang, London, in April 1995. In his famous book, The Nation that Lost its Soul, Shoukut Hayat Khan has written in detail about the tribal raid in Kashmir. On page 278 of this book, he wrote that he was appointed Supervisor of the Kashmir operation. He requested Brigadier Akbar Khan and Brigadier Sher Khan to provide him with their services. Both officers belonged to 6/13 Frontier Force at that time. They also requested the services of Colonel Dara, Kayani, and Khanzada along with guns from Lahore fort. On page 218 he wrote that Minister of Treasury, Ghulam Muhammad, had named Khurshid Anwar for the command of this operation. Khurshid was a reserve officer in the Railway battalion and former National Guard of Muslim League. His only qualification was that he was the first cousin of Minister Ghulam Muhammad. Shoukut Hayat Khan opposed his nomination, but he was appointed because Minister Ghulam Muhammad and Prime Minister Lyaqut Ali Khan insisted on it. Three hundred thousand rupees were given to them from the treasury by Ghulam Muhammad for this operation. They gathered the tribesmen in Sawat and fixed a date on which to attack Kashmir. Shoukut Hayat Khan stayed at the border of Muzaffarabad, Kashmir. He was not allowed to go further because he was a minister of the Pakistan government and did not want to be seen in Kashmir, because this war had to be presented as a peoples’ rebellion against Maharaja Kashmir. Sardar writes that the tribal men refused to listen to Khurshid Anwar when they arrived in Baramullah. They asked Khurshid to distribute the three hundred thousand rupees. Khurshid refused to hand them the money because that amount had been given for the whole operation. At that point the tribesmen got angry and started looting and plundering. They took jewelry from the local women, looted bazaars and houses, and even kidnapped and raped several women. This book written by a government minister and close associate of Mr. Jinnah clearly states that the tribes did not raid Kashmir on their own initiative. They were brought into Kashmir, the Pakistan government and Military led and financed this operation, and tribes were involved in pillaging. If this proof is not enough, then I would like to draw your attention towards Major Hamayun Ameen’s book, The War of Lost Opportunities. This book is considered a reliable source in the military circles of Pakistan. In this book, Major Ameen writes that Mr. Jinnah deputed the responsibility of Kashmir to Prime Minister Lyaqat Ali Khan. Lyaqut Ali gave this task to IftiKhar-ud-Din, who in turn consulted Sardar Shoukut Hayat and Brigadier Akbar Khan. A meeting was held on this issue in Lahore which was presided over by Prime Minister Lyaqut Ali Khan. In this meeting, decisions were made about the impending Kashmir operation. Major Amen writes that there were three fundamental parties in the Kashmir operation: Muslim league leaders like Sardar Shoukut Hyat, Iftikhar- ud-Din, and Khurshid Anwer; the tribal men; and Brigadier Akbar Khan. The Brigadier was in charge of the weapons and equipment department at the General Military Headquarters, Rawalpindi. He was asked to arm the tribal raiders. He was asked to use all the means at his disposal without letting the British officer, who was commander of the Army at that time, know. Major Ameen writes that the tribal men were brought from the North West Frontier Province in Government trucks to Abbottabad to launch a raid in Kashmir under the command of Khurshid Anwer. Some of the facts of Major Ameen’s book are reinforced in Brigadier Akbar’s book, Raiders in Kashmir. But the most reliable source on this count is Air Marshal Asghar Khan. Mr. Asghar Khan wrote in his book that he personally participated in the Kashmir invasion. He also wrote that his brother, Major Aslam Khan, was leading the Pakistan Military and tribesmen in Muzafferabad sector. These sources from the Pakistan military and government circles clearly accept the fact that the tribes were brought to fight under the command of Pakistan military. Some of the tribesmen were also handed over to the former military men in Pooch to fight against the Dogra army there. They did not go to Kashmir to help their brothers and sisters who were in need. They were hired to fight, and their main motives were money and war booty. Apart from this unchallengeable evidence, we also have testimonials of the people who have been part of these events. The Azad Kashmiri leaders who participated and, in some cases, led these events publicly admitted to the tribal invasion and looting in Kashmir. Among them the founder President of Azad Kashmir Sardar Ibrahim Khan and Justice Yusuf Saraf are prominent. Some tribesmen who participated in this operation are still alive in Waziristan. They admit to having been brought by Pakistan military officers in military trucks to fight in Kashmir.
 
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Ian Stephens, editor of The Statesman (Calcutta) noted in his book ‘Pakistan’ that “unlike every part of the State, Hindu and Sikhs slightly out-numbered Muslims and within a period of about 11 weeks, starting in August, systematic savageries ——— practically eliminated the entire Muslim element in the population, amounting to 5,00,000 people. About 2, 00,000 just disappeared, remaining untraceable, having presumably been butchered.”

London Times gave news that “in one area 2, 37,000 Muslims were wiped out in a well conceived manner except those people who escaped to Pakistan along the border. This massacre of Muslims was done by Dogra forces of the State and Hari Singh was himself guiding (the operation).”

Professor Harry Alastair Lamb in his book “Kashmir: A Disputed Legacy’, “These atrocities had been perpetrated not only by uncontrolled bands of hooligans but also by organized units of the Hari Singh army of police”.

the Dogra regime intended to accede to India and New Delhi had annexationist design over the state. Besides the presence of Patiala State infantrymen stationed at Jammu and Patiala gunners positioned at Srinagar Airfield on 17th of October 1947 could not have gone unnoticed......please do tell us what the indian army was doing kashmir before any "invasion" by the pakistani side has taken place.
 
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@dabong1...

Tribal Invasion: An American Reportage

So basically the article is saying that pakistani army was also involved in the liberation of kashmir and helped the kashmiris fight india is not disputed by me.
The indians make out as if a load of patthan tribesman with pak army help came into kashmir on there own whim is a total myth.....they came in to help the kashmiris fight the dogra-india army the exact same way you indians came in to help the hindu dogras is the same way the muslims from pakistani muslims helped the kashmiris.
 
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Battle Casualties of Azad Kashmir Regiment during 1947-1948

Total

17 Officers

100 JCO's

2516 OR

4668 Wounded

7301 Total

Pakistan Military Consortium :: www.PakDef.info

Now don't tell me this wasn't a military cum Pushtun tribe operation..

So basically the article is saying that pakistani army was also involved in the liberation of kashmir and helped the kashmiris fight india is not disputed by me.
The indians make out as if a load of patthan tribesman with pak army help came into kashmir on there own whim is a total myth.....they came in to help the kashmiris fight the dogra-india army the exact same way you indians came in to help the hindu dogras is the same way the muslims from pakistani muslims helped the kashmiris.

It was an invasion by Pak regulars and Pushtun tribes - please read the article I posted which is written by a Kashmiri.
 
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Battle Casualties of Azad Kashmir Regiment during 1947-1948


Now don't tell me this wasn't a military cum Pushtun tribe operation..



It was an invasion by Pak regulars and Pushtun tribes - please read the article I posted which is written by a Kashmiri.

I have read the article but i did point out in the previous post saying that "pakistani army was also involved in the liberation of kashmir and helped the kashmiris fight india is not disputed by me."

To add further i have never said that no tribesman or pak army was not involved in the 1947-48 kashmir war but i have to add that the kashmiris rose up first against dogra rule and then the help from pakistan came after.
If india can help the dogra ruler then the pakistanis can help the people.
 
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