Kashmir The Freedom of Struggle

[HASEEB66]

is kashmir a matter of ego for both the countries india needs to show some more flexibility in their stance...i heard the deal on kashmir was done at agra summit until the beurocrats of bot the countries stuck on something...india can give a few districts indelpendece and than the borders can become permanent..but it requires a change in faces in the indian establishment(politicians beurocrats military advisors)

 

[Bull]

Your wasting your time bro if you think by using logic or trying to find a fair solution to the kashmir issue with the indians..

You are right bro, for India and Indians there is no compromise on Kashmir. Not an inch..

The indians have been talking the same crap on kashmir since 47 and the only person fooled is mushy and a few others..

An that same mushy is hailed as pakistan's saviour by everybody.

The pakistani government needs to back in public the armed freedom movement in kashmir.
We need to start an intifada in occupied kashmir on the same lines as the palestinians and have the freedom fighters modelled on the Hezbollah style.
If a couple off hundred freedom fighters pinned down a large amount of the indian army in kargil what would 10,000 fighters do to the indian army.

Your govt did exactly that from 1974 till now. So just take a guess and think why has Mushraff changed lines now. They probably realised that India cant be defeated by an insurgency.

And also when you start styling something in the line of Hizbullah, have a look at Lebonon. Hizbullah has grown to such strengths as to threaten and challenge the soverignity of Lebonon and act as a govt within a govt.

The same has happened in Paksitan's eastern borders, you created a insurgency backed them up ,gave them all the freedom and they grew to such strengths that PA is now battling to control the monster they created.

And now you are basically asking for that to be created on your west too. All the best.

 

[Neo]

Monday, 5 March 2007

Kashmir's extra-judicial killings

The body is exhumed of a carpenter - seven police are accused of killing him
A young Indian soldier recently stationed in Kashmir reflects on the controversial issue of 'fake encounter' killings - where the security forces are alleged to carry out extra-judicial killings while claiming they were caught up in gun battles with militants.

Since he gave these views to the BBC's Urdu service, seven policemen have been charged with murder in connection with the death of a carpenter that he refers to.

_________________________________________________________________

I heard that there have been some 'fake encounter' killings in Ganderbal [near the summer capital, Srinagar].

It's not that I was not aware of the fact that these things happen, but somehow the number disturbed me.

Apparently the security forces are being held responsible, and they have probably even accepted responsibility.

Some of the people who are part of the security forces are Kashmiris, some of them are even surrendered militants who fought the army at one time. I was appalled, and at the same time very sad.

The question is, why would anybody want to kill a poor carpenter? I mean how harmful can he be? The answer is so obvious that I was at first surprised and then angry at my own naivety.
The answer is the system.

'Tough mercenaries'

The system in the Kashmir valley has become such that "kills" by so-called security forces are associated with medals, monetary benefits, promotions and a host of other perks.

Militants are tough adversaries.

So any organisation getting or registering more "kills" reaps the benefits.

Now, to kill a seasoned militant these days is difficult, because these guys are mercenaries and are tough.

So some elements within the security forces apparently do the next easiest thing: pick up an innocent man from the street and get him killed somewhere else.

And the saddest part about the whole thing is that even Kashmiris themselves are doing this to their own people.

Suddenly everything becomes a blur. It becomes unclear who the real enemy is. I had come to the valley with naive ideas of being able to make a difference, but in reality I can only influence not more than 10 people.

'Dying for a cause'

And then something like this happens, and there are villagers and more villagers protesting on the street, asking for freedom from this kind of oppression.

Obviously they will protest. Anybody would.

A solution to the suffering looks a long way off .

Even if there is no solution in sight one cannot just go and pick up people from the street and kill them. And if they do this there will be never be any solution.

I had dear friends who had nothing to do with the Kashmir problem, who were from places far away from here, who were soldiers, who died here believing they were dying for a cause because they were told so.

But now I realise they do not really want to solve the whole issue.

The big game being played here is that of money. Money being pumped in by Pakistan to wage the war and money from India to conquer it.

And as long as there is a war going on in the valley there will be unaccounted money and people to make good use of it.

I realise that we are just pawns in this game of dirty politics. And I suddenly feel small... very small.

The soldier wished to remain anonymous.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6367917.stm

 

[Janbaz]

Lol, no peace dude. Peace is taken by the gun, dont expect that there will be a resolution of the Kashmir dispute.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic, the current efforts are hope relieving. I just hope for peace at last. We can't fight for ever!:toast:

 

[Bull]

I wouldn't be so pessimistic, the current efforts are hope relieving. I just hope for peace at last. We can't fight for ever!:toast:

good luck mate, sadly it isnt people like you who rule Pakistan.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Pakistan not to betray Kashmiris, says Rashid

RAWALPINDI: Pakistan would never betray Kashmiri people as it is matter of life and death for us and vowed to continue support to the ongoing liberation movement of Kashmiris.

There is no one either a ruler or common man who can take U turn on Jammu and Kashmir dispute if someone does it the people of Pakistan reject him.

These views were expressed by Federal Railway Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmad while talking to the visiting All Parties Hurriayat Conference (APHC) leader and Chairman Jammu and Kashmir National Front (JKNF) Nayeem Khan who called on him on Tuesday.

Sheikh Rashid on the occasion assured Nayeem Khan that the people of Jammu and Kashmir are not alone in their right of self-determination struggle whole Ummah and Pakistan nation are on their back.

Rashid grilled Indian leadership over their negative approach regarding the settlement of this vexed issue that has put the security of the region at stake.

"President Musharraf showed too much flexibility to settle this core issue aimed at giving a chance to the peace in this most important strategic location of the world. We are peace loving nation but on the rights of Kashmiri people we would never accept any kind of pressure," candid Kashmir-born Minister added.

He said being a Kashmiri when I hear the human rights violations in Jammu and Kashmir by India troops I feel shock after all every one in Kashmir is my brother and sister and how a person can tolerate the news about the killing of his motherland's dwellers.

Nayeem Khan thanked the minister and the govt of Pakistan for their cooperation and support to the ongoing liberation movement of Kashmir.

Khan invited Shaikh Rashid to visit Jammu and Kashmir and Shaikh Rashid accepted the invitation. Nayeem Khan was accompanied by the leader of JKNF and All Parties Hurriyat Conference Azad Jammu and Kashmir chapter Altaf Hussain Wani.

http://paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?174041

good luck mate, sadly it isnt people like you who rule Pakistan.

Actually it is India who is having problems. Killing, beating the freedom of the people in Kashmir.

 

[Contrarian]

Im bored of this...India beating freedom of people, etc etc etc, look at those who talk, those who dont have freedom themselves.

 

[dabong1]

BTW, there have been many changes in government since 1947, suprisingly there has been no change in the 'crap' they talk. Does it mean something to you?.

That the indian government is inflexible.

That is not cause of the Indian govt. India wants to make LoC to IB, which would solve the problem..

Yeah solve the "problem" for the indian govt but not help the people of kashmir get there human rights.

Its Pakistan that wants to keep on the whole 'we'r so concerned about the Kashmiri people' thing, and they want the entire Kashmir. Which is not happening as long as Pakistan cannot defeat India militarily, cuz India will obviouly not agree to it on the negotiating table.

Like you said before "the gun will bring peace." and i am pretty sure it will not be the indian gun bringing peace

Then i ask you, do you think that Pakistan can defeat India in a war? If the answer is no, then the status quo continues unless Mushy is thrown from power and a peace loving govt comes in Pakistan who does not support jehadis..

If by the status quo continues you mean that india continues to kill kashmiris and pakistan supports the kashmir freedom fighter ....then yes.What is needed is a peace seeking indian government.

Do you not see the simplicity of the problem? Pakistan wants entire Kashmir or an independent Kashmir(which is the same thing! I mean they claim 'azad kashmir' is...ahem...azad). This India will never agree to...

Why not let people of kashmir decide what they want?

Pakistan has made 4 military overtures for this cause, lost all four times, they cannot win in teh future,...

LOL.......

 

[dabong1]

You are right bro, for India and Indians there is no compromise on Kashmir. Not an inch...

Thankyou for proving how inflexible and militant indians are issues.

So just take a guess and think why has Mushraff changed lines now. They probably realised that India cant be defeated by an insurgency....

There is only a couple of thousand freedom fighters in kashmir,if pakistan wants it can send in thousands in a couple of months.
Mushraff thinks he can reach a deal with india which there is no chance off due to indian stubborness and refusal to give the kashmiri people there human rights.

And also when you start styling something in the line of Hizbullah, have a look at Lebonon. Hizbullah has grown to such strengths as to threaten and challenge the soverignity of Lebonon and act as a govt within a govt...

I was talking about the military aspect of Hizbullah being used by the freedom fighters and also take in tactics used by the iraqi freedom fighters like using the latest IEDs against indian occupation army transport.

The same has happened in Paksitan's eastern borders, you created a insurgency backed them up ,gave them all the freedom and they grew to such strengths that PA is now battling to control the monster they created..

If your talking about Waziristan the pathans have been using guns and defending there "freedoms" for centuries.The PA is not going to defeat these guys and neither is NATO.
But let me guess you reckon the indian army would defeat the waziris

 

[Contrarian]

Listen dabong1, Pakistan cannot do anything now, there will be international repriduccions if Mushy sends thousands of PA into Kashmir, India would get a cause to declare war, etc, etc, etc.

Pakistan wont get a centimeter of Kashmir, there will be no plebicite, the human right violations will ceaese when the militants entering Kashmir cease. So actually its Pakistan's fault that there are human right violations in Kashmir. BTW speaking on human rights, Azad Kashmir's record is not that clean, pathetic infrastructure, etc, etc, etc

 

[Adux]

Why dont you guys send some miltants into Kerala, we have some good muslims over here, who would thrash those idiots..... Wish very where in india was like my state when it came to religious harmony

 

[dabong1]

Why dont you guys send some miltants into Kerala, we have some good muslims over here, who would thrash those idiots..... Wish very where in india was like my state when it came to religious harmony

Taking in that indian propaganda about kashmir being about religion again.

 

[dabong1]

Pakistan wont get a centimeter of Kashmir, there will be no plebicite,

Which there is never going be if india has its way

the human right violations will ceaese when the militants entering Kashmir cease.,

Yout own govt admits that LOC movement has stopped,You have a fence built,but still the same old excuse that no one can prove.

So actually its Pakistan's fault that there are human right violations in Kashmir..,

So its pakistani army that is killing kashmiris is it?

BTW speaking on human rights, Azad Kashmir's record is not that clean, pathetic infrastructure, etc, etc, etc

Its a lot more better then india's,you have probably never been to pakistan so how do you know what the infrastructure is like ....ect ect

 

[Spring Onion]

Yout own govt admits that LOC movement has stopped,You have a fence built,but still the same old excuse that no one can prove.


Its a lot more better then india's,you have probably never been to pakistan so how do you know what the infrastructure is like ....ect ect

Yeh they themselves say the movement have fallen considerbly have a good size of army there, but still they face resistance from Kashmiries.
And if they say all those are from Pakistan thn why there are fake killings which had widely been reported and proved that Indian forces kill innocent Kashmiris in fake encounter.

debong the infrastrcuture in Azad Kashmir was far far better thn IHK, before the earthquake the Hurriat leaders from India visitd Azad Kashmir and they were amazed by the development and infrastructure here

 

[EagleEyes]

Listen dabong1, Pakistan cannot do anything now, there will be international repriduccions if Mushy sends thousands of PA into Kashmir, India would get a cause to declare war, etc, etc, etc.

Pakistan wont get a centimeter of Kashmir, there will be no plebicite, the human right violations will ceaese when the militants entering Kashmir cease. So actually its Pakistan's fault that there are human right violations in Kashmir. BTW speaking on human rights, Azad Kashmir's record is not that clean, pathetic infrastructure, etc, etc, etc

Pathetic infrastructure is your guys only excuse . At least they live a better lives than a majority of the Indians in India.