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Kashmir terrorist attack : Another civilian succumbs, toll 5

More good for us. We want india to do something so that every kashmiri take up arms.
Ladakh & jammu already want to be declared a union territory since mejority in the region are buddhists & hindus. The only reason we haven't is because most pro India Kashmiris are from here . Making Them UT will loose support from Kashmir political parties since they loose seats .

Also your 'all of Kashmir' chest thumping has one major flaw , terrorists & their leaders drop like flies in military rule , china did it to tibet , sri lanka did it to the tamils , both much bigger territory than south Kashmir , both regions now are more stable than Pakistan.
 
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Ladakh & jammu already want to be declared a union territory since mejority in the region are buddhists & hindus. The only reason we haven't is because most pro India Kashmiris are from here . Making Them UT will loose support from Kashmir political parties since they loose seats .

Also your 'all of Kashmir' chest thumping has one major flaw , terrorists & their leaders drop like flies in military rule , china did it to tibet , sri lanka did it to the tamils , both much bigger territory than south Kashmir , both regions now are more stable than Pakistan.
then do referndum because ladakh and jammu population is very less as compare to kashmir valley population where people want to join Pakistan.
 
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then do referndum because ladakh and jammu population is very less as compare to kashmir valley population where people want to join Pakistan.

Before talking about conducting a referendum in Kashmir we need to talk about conducting a referendum for Pakistan.

On what basis is Pakistan legal?
 
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then do referndum because ladakh and jammu population is very less as compare to kashmir valley population where people want to join Pakistan.
Open your borders ,the ppl are always free to join Pakistan.

The entire state of Jammu & Kashmir is sparsely populated , its a mountainous state . Ladakh & jammu is. Like 70% of j&k area
 
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Before talking about conducting a referendum in Kashmir we need to talk about conducting a referendum for Pakistan.

On what basis is Pakistan legal?
we already did referendum in 1947. still if you insist we can do it again but involving Indian punjab too, where whole punjab is treated as one province.
But indians are not keeping their promise with kashmiris on referendum.

Open your borders ,the ppl are always free to join Pakistan.

The entire state of Jammu & Kashmir is sparsely populated , its a mountainous state . Ladakh & jammu is. Like 70% of j&k area
but 35-40 percent population only.
 
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we already did referendum in 1947. still if you insist we can do it again but involving Indian punjab too, where whole punjab is treated as one province.
But indians are not keeping their promise with kashmiris on referendum.

Yes lets do a referendum in the combined pre-partition India and Pakistan and see if people would choose creating Pakistan or not.
 
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Open your borders ,the ppl are always free to join Pakistan.

The entire state of Jammu & Kashmir is sparsely populated , its a mountainous state . Ladakh & jammu is. Like 70% of j&k area
people and theirland both want to join Pakistan.

Yes lets do a referendum in the combined pre-partition India and Pakistan and see if people would choose creating Pakistan or not.
let's do it because Zee news won't be voting. Our 4 provices along with kashmir are confirm our and dalits+sikhs will vote us too.
 
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bhutto, iskander mirza, benazir bhutto, yahya khan, mushaf ali mir and lot more.

Ok now you are adding politicians too then Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan are sunni too.

Pakistan’s Transition from Shia to Sunni Leadership
From: The Shia Revival: How Conflicts Within Islam Will Shape the Future, by Vali Nasr (W. W. Norton, 2006), pp. 88-90:

Pakistan’s founder, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, was an Ismaili by birth and a Twelver Shia by confession, though not a religiously observant man. He had studied at the Inns of Court in London and was better versed in English law than in Shia jurisprudence, was never seen at an Ashoura procession, and favored a wardrobe that often smacked as much of Savile Row as of South Asia. Yet insofar as he was Muslim and a spokesman for Muslim nationalism, it was as a Shia. His coreligionists played an important role in his movement, and over the years many of Pakistan’s leaders were Shias, including one the country’s first governor-generals, three of its first prime ministers, two of its military leaders (Generals Iskandar Mirza and Yahya Khan), and many other of its leading public officials, landowners, industrialists, artists, and intellectuals. Two later prime ministers, the ill-fated Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and his Radcliffe-educated, currently exiled daughter, Benazir Bhutto, were also Shia. Feeling the wind shift in the 1990s, Benazir styled herself a Sunni, but her Iranian mother, her husband from a big Shia landowning family, and her father’s name, the name of Ali’s twin-bladed sword, make her Shia roots quite visible. In a way, Benazir’s self-reinvention as a Sunni tells the tale of how secular nationalism’s once solid-seeming promise has given way like a rotten plank beneath the feet of contemporary Pakistan’s beleaguered Shia minority.

Benazir’s father came from a family of large Shia landowners who could afford to send him for schooling to the University of California at Berkeley and to Oxford. He cut a dashing figure. Ambitious, intelligent, and secular, he was a brilliant speaker, with the ability, it is said, to make a crowd of a million people dance and then cry. His oratory manipulated public emotion as the best of Shia preachers could, and his call for social justice resonated with Shia values. His party’s flag conveniently displayed the colors of Shiism: black, red, and green. Although he never openly flaunted his Shia background, he commanded the loyalty of Pakistan’s Shia multitudes, around a fifth of the population. What he lacked in the area of regular religious observance he made up for with his zeal for Sufi saints and shrines, especially that of Lal Shahbaz Qalandar, the widely popular Sufi saint of Shia extraction whose tomb is a major shrine in southern Pakistan.

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s years in power (1971–77) marked the pinnacle of Shia power in Pakistan and the high point of the promise of an inclusive Muslim nationalism. But the country that Jinnah built and Bhutto ruled had over time become increasingly Sunni in its self-perception. The Sunni identity that was sweeping Pakistan was not of the irenic Sufi kind, moreover, but of a strident and intolerant brand. Bhutto’s Shia-supported mix of secularism and populism—sullied by corruption and his ruthless authoritarianism—fell to a military coup led by pious Sunni generals under the influence of hard-eyed Sunni fundamentalists. In April 1979, the state hanged Bhutto on questionable murder charges. A Sunni general, Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, strongly backed by Sunni fundamentalist parties, personally ordered that the death sentence be carried out, even after Pakistan’s highest court recommended commutation to life imprisonment.

The coup of 1977 ended the Pakistani experiment with inclusive Muslim nationalism. Shia politicians, generals, and business leaders remained on the scene, but a steadily “Islamizing” (read “Sunnifying”) Pakistan came to look more and more like the Arab world, with Sunnis on top and Shias gradually pushed out. Pakistan in many regards captures the essence of the political challenge that the Shia have faced. The promise of the modern state has eluded them as secular nationalism has been colonized from within by Sunni hegemony.
 
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Long live freedom fighters. After surgical strike inside Indian territory, freedom fighters even attacking them on streets.
 
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Why don't India just quit Kashmir. India would bring peace by stopping its imperialistic ambitions. British India might have created India, but India today doesn't need to expand the borders to that of British India.

Why should one leave something that he won in a war and give it to someone who had failed to secure it even after multiple attempts ?? :)
 
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Ok now you are adding politicians too then Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan are sunni too.

Pakistan’s Transition from Shia to Sunni Leadership
From: The Shia Revival: How Conflicts Within Islam Will Shape the Future, by Vali Nasr (W. W. Norton, 2006), pp. 88-90:

Pakistan’s founder, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, was an Ismaili by birth and a Twelver Shia by confession, though not a religiously observant man. He had studied at the Inns of Court in London and was better versed in English law than in Shia jurisprudence, was never seen at an Ashoura procession, and favored a wardrobe that often smacked as much of Savile Row as of South Asia. Yet insofar as he was Muslim and a spokesman for Muslim nationalism, it was as a Shia. His coreligionists played an important role in his movement, and over the years many of Pakistan’s leaders were Shias, including one the country’s first governor-generals, three of its first prime ministers, two of its military leaders (Generals Iskandar Mirza and Yahya Khan), and many other of its leading public officials, landowners, industrialists, artists, and intellectuals. Two later prime ministers, the ill-fated Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and his Radcliffe-educated, currently exiled daughter, Benazir Bhutto, were also Shia. Feeling the wind shift in the 1990s, Benazir styled herself a Sunni, but her Iranian mother, her husband from a big Shia landowning family, and her father’s name, the name of Ali’s twin-bladed sword, make her Shia roots quite visible. In a way, Benazir’s self-reinvention as a Sunni tells the tale of how secular nationalism’s once solid-seeming promise has given way like a rotten plank beneath the feet of contemporary Pakistan’s beleaguered Shia minority.

Benazir’s father came from a family of large Shia landowners who could afford to send him for schooling to the University of California at Berkeley and to Oxford. He cut a dashing figure. Ambitious, intelligent, and secular, he was a brilliant speaker, with the ability, it is said, to make a crowd of a million people dance and then cry. His oratory manipulated public emotion as the best of Shia preachers could, and his call for social justice resonated with Shia values. His party’s flag conveniently displayed the colors of Shiism: black, red, and green. Although he never openly flaunted his Shia background, he commanded the loyalty of Pakistan’s Shia multitudes, around a fifth of the population. What he lacked in the area of regular religious observance he made up for with his zeal for Sufi saints and shrines, especially that of Lal Shahbaz Qalandar, the widely popular Sufi saint of Shia extraction whose tomb is a major shrine in southern Pakistan.

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s years in power (1971–77) marked the pinnacle of Shia power in Pakistan and the high point of the promise of an inclusive Muslim nationalism. But the country that Jinnah built and Bhutto ruled had over time become increasingly Sunni in its self-perception. The Sunni identity that was sweeping Pakistan was not of the irenic Sufi kind, moreover, but of a strident and intolerant brand. Bhutto’s Shia-supported mix of secularism and populism—sullied by corruption and his ruthless authoritarianism—fell to a military coup led by pious Sunni generals under the influence of hard-eyed Sunni fundamentalists. In April 1979, the state hanged Bhutto on questionable murder charges. A Sunni general, Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, strongly backed by Sunni fundamentalist parties, personally ordered that the death sentence be carried out, even after Pakistan’s highest court recommended commutation to life imprisonment.

The coup of 1977 ended the Pakistani experiment with inclusive Muslim nationalism. Shia politicians, generals, and business leaders remained on the scene, but a steadily “Islamizing” (read “Sunnifying”) Pakistan came to look more and more like the Arab world, with Sunnis on top and Shias gradually pushed out. Pakistan in many regards captures the essence of the political challenge that the Shia have faced. The promise of the modern state has eluded them as secular nationalism has been colonized from within by Sunni hegemony.
article no where close to reality.
 
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