Kashmir polls

[Flintlock]

65% turnout in second round of J&K polls
24 Nov 2008, 0137 hrs IST, M Saleem Pandit, TNN


SRINAGAR: With thousands of armed troops standing guard, Kashmiris yet again defied the separatist boycott call and harsh weather to vote in
large numbers in the second phase of Jammu and Kashmir polls on Sunday. About 65% of the nearly five-lakh electorate voted to decide the fate of 81 candidates, including National Conference leader Omar Abdullah. The first round of voting last week saw a turnout of 67%. ( Watch )

Kashmir divisional commissioner Masood Samoon said polling in six constituencies — Kangan, Ganderbal in the Valley and Nowshera, Darhal, Rajouri, Kalakot in the Jammu region — was by and large peaceful. Polling in the region was between 44% and 73%. Kangan and Ganderbal reported turnouts of 60% and 44%, he said, against 52% and 35% in 2002.

National Conference chief Omar Abdullah said the jump in the turnout in his constituency of Ganderbal would work in his favour and help him reclaim his family's traditional stronghold. "I toured Ganderbal and was delighted to see the voters' excitement," he said. "I'm confident that I'll win by a huge margin and this would be an index to National Conference's popularity."

Analysts say absence of the militant threat has also contributed to the high voter turnout. For the first time in 20 years, militants have pledged non-violent elections. More than 800 people were killed in the terrorist violence sin the run up to polls in 2002.

The second round of the vote in the staggered balloting came less than 24 hours after police killed two anti-poll protesters at Baramulla fuelling concerns about its likely impact on Sunday's polling.

Sporadic incidents of violence were also reported. Hundreds of protesters stoned a polling station and clashed with security forces at Kurhama near Ganderbal. "Police and paramilitary soldiers swung batons to drive away the protesters," a police officer said. The violence temporarily halted voting at the booth, but scores of voters soon returned to cast the ballot.

"Voting is my right and nobody can stop me from exercising it. Hurriyat's boycott call doesn't bother me. They don't run the government but only create the fuss," said Masooda Bano (20), a first time voter.

 

[nitesh]

hey that's gr8

"Voting is my right and nobody can stop me from exercising it. Hurriyat's boycott call doesn't bother me. They don't run the government but only create the fuss," said Masooda Bano (20), a first time voter.

This is a good response to all the nay sayers.

 

[Halaku Khan]

Hello folks - here is a statement by Dr. Shabir Choudhary, founder of JKLF, on the polls that are now in progress. I do not necessarily agree with all of it, but here it is:

------------------------------

WE VOTED "BECAUSE OF THE HATE OF OUR OWN LEADERS"

We voted 'because of the hate of our own leaders'. - Yahoo! India News

Mon, Nov 24 02:55 PM

London, Nov.24 (ANI): Second phase of elections in the Indian administered Jammu and Kashmir have finished with astonishing outcomes. If we look at the Pakistani media or views of those who support Pakistan,irrespective of what they have done to the Kashmir dispute, we find that there has been a total boycott of elections and that the Indian Army has only one mission and that is to kill innocent people.

But when we look at other media and speak directly to people on ground, a totally different picture emerges, which shows that some members of the Pakistani media and their puppets have only one mission; to tell lies and hide facts from people, as they have been hiding facts from their own people regarding matters directly related to Pakistan and its security.

According to BBC representative Altaf Hussain, he has not seen such long queues for any voting in the past. And despite cold weather, people have come out in thousands to vote.

In his report, filed on November 23, 2008, Altaf showed long lines of people standing outside polling stations.

According to BBC, turnout in today's voting was 65%, however voting in Noshera and in Kalakote was 70% and 73% respectively.

Another interesting aspect of this election is the attitude of young people, who have openly defied calls for boycott and used their democratic right to vote. People seehis as a protest vote against pro-Pakistan leaders who used the Kashmiri struggle to feather their own nests. n this regard this, a member of Al - Fatah Force wrote from Bandipora: "Our leaders Geelani Sahib, Mirwaiz Sahib, Yasin Malik, Javed Mir and others had appealed earlier that people should stay away from these elections but we want to tell them that our people voted not because of the love of pro-Indian leaders but because of the hate of our own leaders."

"These so called pro-movement leaders make huge property on the blood of our martyrs, especially on the sacrifices of our common Mujahideen. We will not raise our fingers on other leaders. Take the example of our own Ameer Mohammad Farooq Rehmani. This lucky man is from Bandipora but for the past 15 years enjoys a luxurious life in Pakistan. Many mujahideen of our party are married now but we have no money and no future of our children. Rehmani spent more than rupees 1,200,000 (1.2 million rupees) for the wedding of his son in Pakistan while our brothers are denied even the life saving drugs from his office. We are treated as slaves, how can we stop our brothers and sisters from taking part in the elections'. (Author of this statement could be reached on this email:alfatahforce@yahoo.com).

Apart from these reports, I have personally spoken to many journalists who were monitoring these elections. They confirmed that people have clearly rejected calls of boycott as ordinary masses have no trust in those who give calls of boycott.

One person I spoke to said: "It is true we want independence and don't want to be part of India, but by staying away from polling booths we will only strengthen hands of those who are promoting a Pakistani agenda in Jammu and Kashmir, and are getting rewards for this."

The amazing turnout (in first and second phase of elections) has bewildered everyone. After 'successful communalisation' of the Kashmiri polity, anti-election leaders and their mentors thought they have won the battle, and they were predicting a total boycott and a possible 'blood bath' which could have helped them make political gains.

Even Indian government officials were worried that the turnout could be low compared to the elections of 2002; and that 'terrorists would stage bloody incidents', which could have embarrassed India.

But the voting in six constituencies of Ganderbal, Kangan, Darhal, Kalakote, Rajouri and Nowshera have hugely surpassed the figures of 2002 Assembly elections; and those elections were, by and large, accepted and hailed by all those who believe in democratic values.

One has to understand that there was pressure on the voters from both camps - one urging them to stay away from polling stations, and the other encouraging them to exercise their democratic right in favour of their candidates. Making the conditions worse for those wishing to vote, weather was extremely cold; and despite that the turn out was better than 2002 elections.

Masuad Samoon, Divisional Commissioner of Kashmir gave details of the voting in a press conference held on Nov. 23, which confirmed that turn out was much better than 2002 elections. For example in Rajouri constituency, the polling was 27.05 percentage in 2002, and it shot up to 67% in the polling held today. Similarly the turnout in Kalakote has surprised everyone which increased from 48.66 per cent in 2002 to 73 per cent today. Mufti Sayeed, former Chief Minister was also astonished by the turn out; and called it a 'trendsetter for the rest of the phases'. He was among those who wanted the elections to be postponed because in his opinion the situation was "unfavourable" for the elections, as he also feared low turn out and bloody incidents.

"Gun is no solution and we have had a bitter experience of it. America has used it in Iraq and Afghanistan and the outcome is before everyone. We want to resolve problems through democratic process, as there is no other way to resolve the Kashmir issue, said Sayeed while adding that in order to resolve the Kashmir dispute, "We all, including India and Pakistan, have to move from stated positions."

What has angered many people is the hypocritical approach of anti-elections lobby - they support elections in areas occupied by Pakistan; but are prepared to go to any lengths to oppose elections in areas occupied by India. They all know that elections are not substitute for referendum and there is the UN Security Council resolution on this matter as well.

In view of many analysts, they oppose elections for two reasons: rewards from Pakistani agencies for doing this; and fear that if they took part in fair and impartial elections, they will lose their seats, hence fully exposed before everyone. They would like to take part in kind of elections which are held in Pakistani-administered Kashmir where outcome is decided in favour of the higher bidder.

At the time of elections in 2002, I had a meeting with the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials, and pleaded that the APHC (All Party Huriyat Conference) leaders could possibly win the elections. I was told that in their judgement and in light of reports they have, there was no way they could win elections. And that if these leaders had even 50-50 chance of winning, they would have opted to participate in the elections.

They further said if they were so sure about their popularity, the best way was to take part in elections, and then speak with authority, as Sinn Fein leaders used to do - they used to take part in elections in Northern Ireland and after winning their seats, they would refuse to come to Westminster.

In other words resentment against India or against certain issues does not mean support for these leaders, who after 20 years of blood, killings, rapes, custodial deaths and destruction, still don't know what they want to achieve.

They still have no strategy on solution of the Kashmir dispute. Still they are not sure, if they want some kind of accession or become independent. Some of them are happy with the status quo; others cannot tell the difference between right of self-determination and right of accession, which is available to people of the State under the UN resolutions.

It is because of this confusion they keep on demanding on implementation of the UN Resolutions.

In view of the confusion these leaders have, and because of their egoist approach and lack of sincerity, majority of the people of Jammu and Kashmir don't see them fit to lead a forcibly divided nation of Jammu and Kashmir.

The present turnout should also be seen as a protest vote against policies of Pakistani governments. Kashmiri youths see Pakistan's Kashmir policy changing like weather changes in England.

Kashmiri youths are annoyed with continued proxy war, proxy politics, forced division and subjugation; and want to make their wishes known. By Dr. Shabir Choudhry (ANI)

 

[Halaku Khan]

The Daily Etalaat Srinagar - Female voters? enthusiasm beat males in second phase (Daily Etalaat)


Abid Gani Wani

Kangan Ganderbal November 23: Unlike the first phase of polling in Bandipora, the female voters turned up for the polling in large numbers in most of the polling station in the two constituencies of the Ganderbal district.

Women voters were waiting in long queues outside the polling booths to caste their votes. The women in the polling station at Lar and Tulmulla in Ganderbal constituency and Kangan and Margund in kangan constituency were waiting in long queues for their turn to cast their votes.

Even at some polling stations, there were incidents of scuffles between the party agents about the casting of votes by the females in the polling stations who were married a year before.

Nazir Ahmad Parray, a polling agent of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in the Wail Polling station had a hot exchange of words with his counterpart Ghulam Ahmad Sheikh of National conference (NC) for bringing the married females on the polling station and caste the votes.

"The NC workers brought their daughters and sisters from their in-laws to cast the votes for their party candidates. So far 8 votes have been cast by the married females and we will not let it happen here," said Nisar.

Upbeat to cast vote for their favorite candidate, a female voter (wishing not to be named) at the Barsoo polling booth told this newspaper that she was waiting for day to cast her vote.

"I was very enthusiastic about the elections, particularly for my favourite candidate, to cast vote in his favor," she said.

The scene was no different in the Tulmulla polling booth where the female voters were waiting in line for their turn.

"There is a swing in mood after some local candidates entered into the fray. We were in favour of poll boycott but the boycott in this polling booth would give an edge to the opponent which we would not put the developmental work in this area into oblivion," said a veiled female identifying herself as Fahmeeda Akhtar.

The female voters, as per the eyewitness, has impersonated in casting the votes. The female voters cast votes twice and even thrice in some polling stations taking the advantage of non availability of identity cards.

"The female voters are wiping out the stain marks (a blue mark on the nail of thumb after casting vote) and come again to impersonate for others," said Bilal Ahmad a local resident.

--------------------------------------------

I had seen some other reports that in the first phase too, women and elderly people were much more enthusiastic about voting. There is probably a deep sociological reason for this. Maybe women, fundamentally, value peace, stability and development more than "angry young males" do.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That sounds like an ethnic division issue. There are deep ethnic fault lines in Pakistan and everyone is aware of that.

I am talking of political parties espousing separatism being allowed to function the way they are in Kashmir and their leaders actually being protected by the Indian government.

That was the leader of a Baluch separatist party - point being that seperatist views are allowed, and widely covered in the media.

And you claimed tolerance for India, not for Pakistan - I pointed out an example of a lack of tolerance from India, and how separatist leaders and parties are allowed to voice even denigrating comments like those above in Pakistan.

That is, your point was incorrect.

Ethnic divisions in Pakistan exist as they do in any multi-ethnic society. Barring the strongholds of the nationalist leaders, they never get to the point that this particular leader was at.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

hey that's gr8



This is a good response to all the nay sayers.

Indeed,

And as I pointed out to Malay, since Indians are trumpeting this as proof that most Kashmiris accept India, implementing the UNSC resolutions and carrying out a plebiscite should validate that opinion.

 

[nitesh]

Indeed,

And as I pointed out to Malay, since Indians are trumpeting this as proof that most Kashmiris accept India, implementing the UNSC resolutions and carrying out a plebiscite should validate that opinion.

AM, this thing has been discussed umpteen times and if we start here again there is no point of repeating the same things.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM, this thing has been discussed umpteen times and if we start here again there is no point of repeating the same things.

If one is going to claim 'support of the Kashmiris', then I have every reason to point out that then the UNSC resolutions should be implemented.

However I think everyone realizes there is a difference between voting to improve your life, but not owing allegiance to the entity that controls you. This was mentioned by quite a few voters in articles in the BBC and other Western media.

Just pointing that out, before triumphalism gets out of hand.

 

[Flintlock]

Indeed,

And as I pointed out to Malay, since Indians are trumpeting this as proof that most Kashmiris accept India, implementing the UNSC resolutions and carrying out a plebiscite should validate that opinion.

Erm...I really don't see any Indian claiming that an internal election is a substitute for a plebiscite.
Howeve, the enthusiastic participation does Indicate that the separatist leaders call for boycott hasn't worked.
The reason is simple - the Kashmiris are voting for their local leaders, who have obviously local ties and are popular among their electorate. These leaders are not appointed by New Delhi, and there's no reason why they wouldn't turn up to vote for them if the polls are conducted in a fair and transparent manner.

However, no territory of India has the option of seceding - and neither do Kashmiris. You are not allowed to vote to decide whether you want to remain a part of India.
Nehru might have considered it once, but he's long gone and the no current or future government will dare to consider it again.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Erm...I really don't see any Indian claiming that an internal election is a substitute for a plebiscite.
Howeve, the enthusiastic participation does Indicate that the separatist leaders call for boycott hasn't worked.
The reason is simple - the Kashmiris are voting for their local leaders, who have obviously local ties and are popular among their electorate. These leaders are not appointed by New Delhi, and there's no reason why they wouldn't turn up to vote for them if the polls are conducted in a fair and transparent manner.

However, no territory of India has the option of seceding - and neither do Kashmiris. You are not allowed to vote to decide whether you want to remain a part of India.
Nehru might have considered it once, but he's long gone and the no current or future government will dare to consider it again.

Kudo's to the kashmiris for participating. No point wallowing in misery while the dispute drags on. There should be a government running the affairs till a resolution of the dispute, and better one the Kashmiris elect.

And once again - it isn't Indian territory, so the question of 'Indian territory seceding' does not arise. That point I clearly made during our last exchange on this thread.

International commitments and obligations do not end with 'leaders'.

The entire nation continues to be responsible for them, until some other commitment or obligation with the concerned entities overrides the earlier commitments.

 

[Flintlock]

Kudo's to the kashmiris for participating. No point wallowing in misery while the dispute drags on. There should be a government running the affairs till a resolution of the dispute, and better one the Kashmiris elect.
And once again - it isn't Indian territory, so the question of 'Indian territory seceding' does not arise. That point I clearly made during our last exchange on this thread.

I think its quite clear that Pakistanis don't consider it as Indian territory, and nobody is trying to dispute that fact.
However, for all intents and purposes, it is a part of India and there is no reason why it will not remain a part of India for a long, long time.

The sooner Pakistanis accept this reality and move on, the better it will be for all parties involved.

International commitments and obligations do not end with 'leaders'.

India's first obligation is to its territorial integrity. All other obligations come second.

The entire nation continues to be responsible for them, until some other commitment or obligation with the concerned entities overrides the earlier commitments.

Indeed, and the Indian people will never allow the government to barter away our territory.

 

[Flintlock]

Infact, I often say that Kashmiris have got a pretty sweet deal here - they get autonomy, they don't have the pressure of outsiders immigrating into their state in large numbers, they can elect their own government, they are part of a larger entity which ensures that their interests are taken care of on the world stage without having to fight any wars, and they can get access to all the resources provided by India in the field of technology, education, industry, commerce. They can get access to a huge pool of central funding at little or no interest, and best of all they get complete religious freedom.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think its quite clear that Pakistanis don't consider it as Indian territory, and nobody is trying to dispute that fact.
However, for all intents and purposes, it is a part of India and there is no reason why it will not remain a part of India for a long, long time.

The sooner Pakistanis accept this reality and move on, the better it will be for all parties involved.

Not just Pakistan, the territory is considered disputed in the international community as well, as it should be, since India reneged on her commitments under the IoA and UNSC resolutions to resolve the dispute, and unilaterally and illegally annexed it.

India's first obligation is to its territorial integrity. All other obligations come second.

Indeed, and the Indian people will never allow the government to barter away our territory.

International commitments and agreements override Indian 'obligations to herself'. Thats like a thief saying that he is refusing to implement a court order to return stolen property since returning the goods makes the thief poorer. Absurd rationale from you.

India cannot 'barter away' that which is not hers.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Infact, I often say that Kashmiris have got a pretty sweet deal here - they get autonomy, they don't have the pressure of outsiders immigrating into their state in large numbers, they can elect their own government, they are part of a larger entity which ensures that their interests are taken care of on the world stage without having to fight any wars, and they can get access to all the resources provided by India in the field of technology, education, industry, commerce. They can get access to a huge pool of central funding at little or no interest, and best of all they get complete religious freedom.

Then India should 'sell them' on this 'sweet deal' and follow through on her international and bilateral commitments.

 

[Flintlock]

Not just Pakistan, the territory is considered disputed in the international community as well, as it should be, since India reneged on her commitments under the IoA and UNSC resolutions to resolve the dispute, and unilaterally and illegally annexed it.

Well as far as India is concerned its not illegal. You can either agree with that or disagree with that, but its not going to change ground realities.

International commitments and agreements override Indian 'obligations to herself'. Thats like a thief saying that he is refusing to implement a court order to return stolen property since returning the goods makes the thief poorer. Absurd rationale from you.

Right, the way Pakistan has kept its international commitments?

This is the real world Agno, all nations take care of their interest first, and once that is secured, they consider the larger interest of the world.

There is no world court, and therfore there are no "thieves" or "police". Your logic I'm afraid is absurd.

India cannot 'barter away' that which is not hers.

You are going around in circles - Kashmir is part of India for all practical purposes and it really doesn't matter what Pakistan's or the world's opinion on the matter is!