Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[god]

I think our stand should be clear. if these guys wanna talk we should call them on negotiation table but the use of stones should be replied with gun shots.

Anyways when the people are on Pakistan payroll i dont think that we are not short of people who would be ready to work on Indian pay roll. what you sow is what you reap

 

[PAFAce]

Not on high horses, I'll give you that.

You're just in denial.

Hence, we should conclude that the Kashmir issue is Pakistan's doing, right? I mean, the massive civilian demand for freedom is all Pakistan's doing, it's only been a problem since our state sponsored terrorists began the insurgency in the 1980s. Before that, all was fine and dandy when you were left alone with your whips and the poor Kashmiri populace.

Nice try to compare the Afghanistan situation. It's something I see often amongst the desperate ones. Historical facts, it seems, are second to nationalism in their books. But guess what, nobody's buying what you're selling. We were never in violation of any UN resolutions, like you are in Kashmir and Israel is in Palestine. Peas in a pod, really, Israel and India; trying to teach us about human rights. And we're the ones on the high horse? It makes me wonder how fortunate the Kashmiris are to have a country with a spine to stand up to their oppressors right next door, unlike the poor Palestinians.

Kashmir is our issue as much as it is yours, you may not like that, but I think after 60+ years, you probably realise you can't really do much about it. We'll stand up for them, as we have for the last six decades, if you don't like it, go ahead, try us. Kashmir does not belong to Pakistan, it doesn't belong to the Indians either, it belongs to the very Kashmiris you choose to opress. Tell me I am wrong, go ahead, it doesn't change the ground reality, it doesn't change the fact that even today most kids in Kashmir chant "le ke rahenge, Azadi". But no, according to you, we occupied Kashmir in 1948, it had nothing to do with them wanting the same freedom given to the rest of Pakistan. I'm sure its a popular fairytale in your part of the land.

And we're the ones in denial. Very rich.

I think our stand should be clear. if these guys wanna talk we should call them on negotiation table but the use of stones should be replied with gun shots.

That's always been your policy. Like I say, peas in a pod, India and Israel.

 

[ssheppard]

it does not matter who reports it here is the vedio link "http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4334246.cms" cant say the guy didnt say what was reported can you?

These buggers have sold their souls to Pakistani Terror machinery....and they are making money like hell....and a normal Kashmiri has to live under threat from Terrorists and Security forces equally......Terrorists come and kill Common man for being an informer...and Security forces come and accuse them of supporting terrorists.

Now that the truth is out ....they are running and hiding there faces....I talked to my friend in Srinagar....he said ....the separatists are running for cover ...they are not willing to face media..and answer the questions..... There masks have been ripped off...and soon you will see these people being thrown out like mad dogs.

 

[BlackSonic]

Srinagar: Following Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) report giving clean chit to the four accused policemen in the Shopian rape and double murder case, a local group Majlis Mashawarat and the victim families have called for a bandh in Kashmir on Tuesday as a mark of protest.

The CBI has ruled that the two women whose bodies were found several months ago were neither raped nor murdered. But activists say they are not convinced the women simply drowned.

Shakeel Ahangar, husband of Neelofar and brother of teenaged Asiya Jan, the two women who were reportedly raped and killed burned the CBI report outside the Jammu and Kashmir High Court.

Ahangar and others have been livid at the CBI report that the two girls died due to drowning and there was no evidence of any rape or murder.

The CBI report claimed that the hymen of Asiya was intact when her body was exhumed.

"The two died of drowning. We have filed chargesheet against 13 people including doctors and lawyers for fabricating evidence," CBI counsel Anil Bhan said.

The family and the Majlis committee that has been at the forefront of the agitation have been crying foul. They have been claiming that the two women were raped and murdered allegedly by members of the armed forces in May 2009.

"it was not recovered from the water but from the boulders just lying on the side. We will continue our struggle for the justice. We demand international probe into the matter," Majlis Mashawarat spokesman Mohammad Shafi Khan said.

The Majlis has accused the CBI of subverting truth and said many questions remain unanswered.

Opposition People's Democratic Party, too, said people have lost faith in CBI.

The valley erupted many times over the murder of 22 year-old Neelofar and 17-year old Asiya Jan. A judicial commission had also rejected the rape and murder theory.

Now the CBI report is before the High Court.

For the CBI probing the six-month old incident, the case is clear and stands closed but for the families of the victims the hunt to unravel the truth behind the deaths is far from over.

Majlis, Shopian victims' family protest CBI report

 

[Spitfighter]

Hence, we should conclude that the Kashmir issue is Pakistan's doing, right? I mean, the massive civilian demand for freedom is all Pakistan's doing, it's only been a problem since our state sponsored terrorists began the insurgency in the 1980s. Before that, all was fine and dandy when you were left alone with your whips and the poor Kashmiri populace.

Were there any large scale riots in Kashmir before the 1980's? Did the Kashmiri's rise up against the 'Indian occupation' in 1965 as the PA had hoped? and if not, why? any ideas?

The military presence in Kashmir is a direct result of Pakistan's policy of state sponsored terrorism.

Also, in case you haven't read the article, if what it says is true then it is clear that the so called 'popular sentiment' is a farce. Pakistan has played on the emotions of the Kashmiri people for its own ends.

Can you explain why Pakistan would finance separatist leaders if not to agitate the population and turn them against the GoI?

Nice try to compare the Afghanistan situation. It's something I see often amongst the desperate ones. Historical facts, it seems, are second to nationalism in their books.

That's funny, I thought you guys were all about granting people their civil rights. You know, things like education, equality, everything the Taliban stands for.

You needed a reminder friend. Pakistan isn't in this to 'help' the Kashmiris, you want the land for yourself, lets not beat around the bush, its getting real old real fast.

But guess what, nobody's buying what you're selling. We were never in violation of any UN resolutions, like you are in Kashmir and Israel is in Palestine.

Hmm..lets see..Kargil?!
1965!?

Also, Pakistan violated the very same UNSC resolutions you guys like to harp about in '65.

Peas in a pod, really. How fortunate the Kashmiris are to have a country with a spine to stand up to their oppressors right next doot, unlike the poor Palestinians.

Haan yara, very fortunate. First, they invade your country in the name of freedom, start a war that they can't finish and perpetuate your misery by pumping in thousands of jihadis who target everything from schools to markets. All in the name of 'Islam' and 'freedom'

Wah! what lions!

Surprisingly the population couldn't have cared less when the PA invaded in '65.

Torch bearers of freedom, really.

Kashmir is out issue as much as it is yours, you may not like that, but I think after 60+ years, you probably realise you can't really do much about it.

Has Pakistan come to a similar realization? its been 60 years hasn't it? what have they accomplished so far?

Kashmir does not belong to Pakistan, it doesn't belong to the Indians either,

The maharaja of Kashmir actually ceded the state to India, so it does belong to us.

it belongs to the very Kashmiris you choose to opress.

Belongs to the Kashmiris too of course, after all they're Indian.

Tell me I am wrong, go ahead, it doesn't change the ground reality.

You're wrong. The ground reality is that Kashmir, at least most of the land and population, is part of India.

We occupied Kashmir in 1948, it had nothing to do with them wanting the same freedom given to the rest of Pakistan. I'm sure its a popular fairytale in your part of the land.

And I'm the one in denial. Very rich.

Of course not, if it did, why would those J ahil tribals invade in the first place, or better yet, why did operation Gibraltar fizzle out? and lets not forget Kargil!

No answers I'm sure.

Sorry bro but you're still in denial.

 

[toxic_pus]

First, a posit.

Historical facts, it seems, are second to nationalism in their books.

Followed by the proof:

We were never in violation of any UN resolutions, like you are in Kashmir...

The Cease Fire clause of Resolution on 13th August, 1948 states:

The High Commands of Indian and Pakistan forces agreed to refrain from taking any measures that might augment the military potential of the forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. (For the purpose of these proposals "forces under their control shall be considered to include all forces, organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities on their respective sides).

In 1965, Pakistan merrily, and diligently, broke that clause by invading India in Kashmir.

The Truce Agreement of the same resolution states:

When the Commission shall have notified the Government of India that the tribesmen and Pakistan nationals referred to in Part II A 2 hereof have withdrawn, thereby terminating the situation which was represented by the Government of India to the Security Council as having occasioned the presence of Indian forces in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and further, that the Pakistan forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of their forces from the State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission

Pakistan, to this date hasn't withdrawn those 'tribesmen and Pakistan nationals'.

So congratulations, for proving your own posit.

Btw, which exact clause did India 'violate'?

The rest of your post is what one would expect when the proverbial sh!t hits the keyboard.

 

[afriend]

Why do people want to put preassure and influence a death in a way they want..!!! In nithahri killings and another incident in delhi.. in all these places some people jump guns and destroy public property alleging something they percieve and look like fools when the truth come out.

 

[Hari]

NEW DELHI: Ever since May, when the bodies of two women washed up near Shopian, journalists have chronicled the multiple failures of administration and policing that allowed the tragic deaths to spark off some of the worst street violence ever seen in Jammu and Kashmir.

Following the release of the findings of the Justice Muzaffar Jan Commission of Enquiry on Friday, the Jammu and Kashmir government has announced that it intends to prosecute four police officials for some of those failures.

But both journalists and the Jammu and Kashmir government have maintained a stoic silence on one institution blamed by Justice Jan for spreading falsehood and inciting violence: the media itself.

Stories fabricated?


Justice Jan’s report highlights disturbing evidence that some journalists may have fabricated elements of their stories.

Early in June, several Srinagar-based journalists reported that one victim’s husband had received a call from her at 7 p.m. on May 29. During the call, the accounts said, the victim reported that she was being chased by CRPF personnel.

In their testimony to the Jan Commission, though, the victim’s husband and her brother made it clear that she had never owned a mobile phone, a fact first reported in this newspaper. Jammu and Kashmir police investigators attached to the Commission studied 32,686 cellphone calls made in Shopian on May 29, and were able to establish that none was made to or from any phone that may have been in the victim’s possession.

Efforts were also made by sections of the media to suggest that the local police may have sought to hush up the case on the orders of their superior. Journalists in particular turned on Constable Mohammad Yaseen, who was reported to have made several phone calls to superiors even as a search for the victims’ bodies was underway — evidence, it was argued, of the unusual interest of his bosses in the case.

In fact, the Commission found, Mr. Yaseen had made only four calls during the whole day and none between 10 p.m. on June 29, when the search for the victims began, until 6 a.m. on June 30, when the bodies were found.

Local resident Jamal-ud-Din Wani, claimed by the media to be an eyewitness to the killings, was alleged to have been abducted after the bodies were found. The Jan Commission found him living in a tent at the hamlet of Dehgam, close to Shopian, where he works as a watchman at a local seminary.

For the most part, Justice Jan found, the media misrepresented forensic evidence. Media accounts insisted that both women appeared to have been badly beaten and gang raped. However, the Jan Commission states, pathologists found no evidence to support the proposition of gang rape. Moreover, only one victim’s body was found to bear visible external injuries. Claims that one victim was pregnant at the time of her death, Justice Jan states, were also wrong.

Perhaps in order to buttress claims that the two women had been raped before they were killed, some journalists asserted that their clothes were torn. However, witnesses interviewed by the Jan Commission said that the women’s Feran and shalwar were intact.

Most disturbing, though, is Justice Jan’s finding that the media incited hatred by broadcasting communal propaganda.

Based on the accounts of individuals claiming to be eyewitnesses, newspapers said that one victim’s forehead had been smeared with sindoor — an allegation that suggested that the rapists were Hindus, and the rape itself macabre religion-driven hate crime. However, the Commission noted, the red marks on her forehead were in fact blood from a head wound. “The flow of blood,” the report states, “was shamefully distorted and projected as a mark of sindoor.”

Noting that this kind of reporting has fuelled violence in Jammu and Kashmir, Justice Jan has suggested that “firm guidelines are made to ensure that, before publication of any news, the authenticity of the news be verified.”



Corrections and Clarifications
The eighth paragraph of a report "Media misrepresented key facts on Shopian rape-murder" (July 12, 2009) was "In fact, the Commission found, Mr. Yaseen had made only four calls during the whole day and none between 10 p.m. on June 29, when the search for the victims began, and 6 a.m. on June 30, when the bodies were found." The dates are May 29 and May 30.

The Hindu : Front Page : Media misrepresented key facts on Shopian rape-murder

 

[Hari]

One of the Shopian victims was a virgin, says autopsy

SHOPIAN(J&K): In the latest in the series of twists and turns in the alleged Shopian rape and murder case, a forensic probe has found that one
of the two young victims was a virgin in evidence suggesting the girl may not have been raped.

A CBI team with the help of a special forensic team comprising doctors from AIIMS and local medicos cam to this conclusion during an on-the-spot examination of the body of Aasiya, one of the two victims whose body was exhumed yesterday at a graveyard in Bonigham in this district.

The forensic experts have found that Aasiya's hymen was intact, official sources said.

17-year-old Aasiya was found dead alongwith her sister-in-law 22-year-old Neelofar in a stream here on May 30.

The forensic experts shared their finding with the doctors of Mushawarat Majlis-e-Committee, an amalgam which spearheaded the 47-day agitation against the alleged rape and murder of the duo by suspected security personnel, who were present at the site, the sources said.

A special CBI forensic team on Monday collected samples from the bodies of the two women after exhuming them nearly four months after their burial.

The team, comprising senior AIIMS doctors, collected a number of samples from the bodies in a process that started at 7 AM and continued for nine hours. The Exhumation was carried out after obtaining necessary approval of the family of the two.

The CBI team was now trying to ascertain the motive behind the murder or cause of death. The forensic experts believed that some breakthrough was imminent once all the tests were completed, the sources said.

The team had brought modern equipment that would help determine ante-mortem and post-mortem injuries on the bodies, officials said.

The bodies of Neelofar and Asiya were recovered from a stream on May 30 after they went missing in town the previous evening.

Their deaths had led to 47 days of protests in the town with locals alleging that security personnel were responsible for the crime.

Ahead of the exhumation, a doctor, who was part of the second post-mortem team from neighbouring Pulwama district hospital and had prepared the vaginal slides of the victims, had told CBI that no samples from the duo had ever been taken and the samples for the slides sent to Forensic Laboratory were taken from gloves used in the gynaecological ward of the district hospital.

The CBI took over the investigation into the case on September 17 and a team headed by Deputy Inspector General Satish Golcha has been camping here since then. The agency's Special Director S C Sinha had also visited the village recently and taken stock of the situation.

It had come to light last month that the vaginal swabs of the two victims sent to Central Forensic and Scientific Laboratory did not match with that of Neelofar and Aasiya.

Ahead of the CBI probe, state government had appointed one-man commission headed by Justice (Retd) Muzzafar Jan which among other things had recommended a detailed questioning of the relatives of the victims, including Neelofar's husband Shakeel Ahnger and her brother Zirar Shah.

One of the Shopian victims was a virgin, says autopsy - India - The Times of India

 

[Gazzi]

Oh oh oh.............I think we have to agree with the Indian CBI as we will be accussed by our Indian brothers of prejudice. I do however, agree that the Indians should also agree with Pakistans investigation with Indian state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan and nearly all its neighbouring countries without reservation also.

I do however, seem baffled that post mortem results before revealed something totally different and now we are being told something else.....this is definately wrong as there CANNOT be two results especially of a sexual nature, it is not possible as I have dealt with post mortems and there is no way you can have two different results.

 

[god]

oho
Then we are waiting for the day when Freedom of Kashmir will be given by Govt of India under "Public Pressure"

1947: "we are waiting for the day when Freedom of Kashmir will be given by Govt of India"

1965: "we are waiting for the day when Freedom of Kashmir will be given by Govt of India"

1971: "we are waiting for the day when Freedom of Kashmir will be given by Govt of India" Oops we lost east Pakistan but still kashmir banega Pakistan

1999: "we are waiting for the day when Freedom of Kashmir will be given by Govt of India"

2009: "we are waiting for the day when Freedom of Kashmir will be given by Govt of India"

This example shows some people are hopelessly hopeful.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Oh oh oh.............I think we have to agree with the Indian CBI as we will be accussed by our Indian brothers of prejudice. I do however, agree that the Indians should also agree with Pakistans investigation with Indian state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan and nearly all its neighbouring countries without reservation also.

I do however, seem baffled that post mortem results before revealed something totally different and now we are being told something else.....this is definately wrong as there CANNOT be two results especially of a sexual nature, it is not possible as I have dealt with post mortems and there is no way you can have two different results.

CBI is the main civil investigations agency for the Indian nation. There were no political connotations attached to the death. Accusations were that the soldiers who allegedly killed these women acted criminally. I still hold the view that an external investigation agency should have been called in to observe the investigations since the matter was so sensitive and there were allegations of bias against the CBI by the Kashmiri Bar Association. A private investigation could still follow and I recall reading something to this effect which was being proposed by the KBA prior to official confirmation of the appointment of the CBI team. Until then the victims should be given the dignity of not making this a politcial issue as it remains a criminal investigation and nothing else.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Oh oh oh.............I think we have to agree with the Indian CBI as we will be accussed by our Indian brothers of prejudice. I do however, agree that the Indians should also agree with Pakistans investigation with Indian state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan and nearly all its neighbouring countries without reservation also.
I do however, seem baffled that post mortem results before revealed something totally different and now we are being told something else.....this is definately wrong as there CANNOT be two results especially of a sexual nature, it is not possible as I have dealt with post mortems and there is no way you can have two different results.

Will Pakistan agree to a joint Indian investigation into all of its alleged state sponsored terrorism not only in Asia but internationally ? I think not. People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones

 

[ssheppard]

People just getting pissed off because they got busted....they thought that they will be able to take India for a ride using fake acusitions and fabricated media stories... they though they will be able to create a media frenzy against India in world community...but they failed to realize that the truth prevails in the end....their proofs got busted one by one........and now they just want to continue harping about ....biased reports......


They just want to blame security forces.....and are going crazy about the fact that their claims got slam dunked ....and their so called evidence proved false....... Poor job done by Pakistani Paid separatists...and good job done by Indian Investigating agencies.

 

[ssheppard]

Report indicts 13 for fabricating evidence

Srinagar, Dec 14: The premier investigating agency, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), which filed its report before the High Court Monday, has chargesheeted 13 persons in the Shopian case, involving the alleged rape and murder of two women, Asiya and Neelofer.

The thirteen persons chargesheet before CJM Srinagar include six doctors, five lawyers from Shopian, including Shopian Bar president, and two civilians. Interestingly, the agency has brought no charges against the four cops who were earlier arrested by the Special Investigation Team (SIT) on July 15.

The CBI, which took over the investigation from the SIT on September 17 into the alleged Shopian rape and murder case, has now finalized its investigation, terming the Shopian case as a case of drowning. Talking to the mediapersons, CBI counsel Anil Bhan, advocate, who earlier represented the agency in the court, told Rising Kashmir: “The CBI has finalized its investigation. It is a case of drowning. It is neither a case of rape nor murder. The CBI has chargesheeted 13 persons for fabrication of the evidence,” adding the chargesheet was presented before the CJM Srinagar on December 10 by the CBI.

Earlier, talking to the mediapersons, CBI chief investigating officer Sanjay said,
“We have charged 13 persons, which include six doctors, five lawyers and two civilians.”
When asked why CBI filed its chargesheet in Srinagar and not Shopian, he said, “CJM Srinagar is the notified court for the CBI cases in Kashmir Valley, that is why we filed the chargesheet in CJM Court Srinagar.”

The 13 persons chargesheeted by the CBI include Dr Nighat Shaheen, Dr Ghulam Qadir Sofi, Dr Mohd Maqbool Mir, Dr Ghulam Mohammad Paul, Dr Bilal Ahmad Dalal, Dr Nazia Hassan, advocates Dr Abdul Majid Mir (Shopian Bar president), Mushtaq Ahmad Gattoo (Public prosecutor), Mohd Yousuf Bhat, Mohd Altaf, Sheikh Mubarak, besides Ali Mohammad Sheikh (civilian) and Zahoor Ahmad Ahanger (Shakeel's brother).

In the 66-page chargesheet prepared by the CBI, it has been submitted as regards the findings of the exhumation carried out by the AIIMS doctors on September 28,

“After examining the aforesaid samples, the Board of Directors of AIIMS, New Delhi forwarded their opinion, including the findings of the CFSL, New Delhi vide their opinion No. CL.For.Med.22/2009 dated 15.11.2009 which is as under....”

The charge sheet further reads, “In view of the above findings, we are of the considered opinion that the cause of death in the case of Asiya was due to asphyxia, as a result of ante-mortem drowning. The lacerated wound on the forehead could be produced by blunt force/striking head against the hard surface and was not sufficient to cause death in ordinary course of nature. There was nothing suggestive of penetration of penis or like object through the hymen opening as the hymen was found intact.”

Drawing their conclusion in case of Neelofer, the Board adds, “in view of the findings, we are of the considered opinion that the cause of death in this case was due to asphyxia as a result of ante-mortem drowning. There were no external ante-mortem injuries on the body.
In section 16.16.13.6, the charge sheet, while giving clean chit to the police officers, adds: “The call detail records of the mobile phones used by the suspected police officers were checked and verified from all angles but nothing adverse was found. Hence the investigation has revealed that the four arrested police officers were not involved in any manner with this incident.”

The charge sheet adds, “the investigation has revealed that the six doctors mentioned such false facts in their different post-mortem reports which supported the theory of rape and murder of the deceased ladies, whereas it has been conclusively proved by the findings of the AIIMS/CFSL that the deceased ladies had died due to ante-mortem drowning, besides these being no evidence to support any attempt to rape."

The charge sheet adds, “similarly, the five accused advocates induced, assaulted and threatened the witnesses to make false statements implicating the police, troops in a false case of rape and murder of the two deceased in order to defame, discredit and cause injury to the personnel of the police/security forces and get them wrongfully convicted for capital offence.”

Further, the charge sheet adds: "Thus the accused have committed offences under section 120-B, 167, 193, 194, 195 A RPC and substantive offences under section 167, 193, 194 and 195 A RPC. It is therefore prayed that the accused persons named above may be summoned and tried according to the law.”

Rising Kashmir, Daily Newspaper, Srinagar Jammu and Kashmir - Report indicts 13 for fabricating evidence