Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think Pakistan has not followed the same and allowed people from all over its lands settle in Kashmir....

Any stats indicating the extent of such immigration, or is it just opinion based on a few isolated cases that had no major impact on the demographics?

 

[lamayuru]

Has India offered another course of action? Has India indicated it might be open to the idea of the Kashmiris being allowed their right of self-determination?

Would you rather they take up arms and use violence?

Where is the discussion on what the Indian state can do to resolve the Kashmir dispute with Pakistan, that provides the background for both non-violent and violent protests?

Even keeping in mind that some of the footage might well have been taken without the prospect of it being used as a form of 'protest', the fact remains that enough sentiment against occupation and in favor of self-determination exists to utilize the media, both accidentally and deliberately.

The path (from the example I gave) goes from:
The Hindu : Other States / Rajasthan News : Gujjars take to agitation seeking ST status
to:
Gujjar reservation bill introduced in Rajasthan Assembly | NewsX

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The path (from the example I gave) goes from:
The Hindu : Other States / Rajasthan News : Gujjars take to agitation seeking ST status
to:
Gujjar reservation bill introduced in Rajasthan Assembly | NewsX

That 'path' is essentially what has existed since India reneged on its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and plebsicite.

Kashmir is the most heavily subsidized state in terms of per-capita expense already is it not? And enjoys special status under the Indian constitution. What more does this 'path' offer?

 

[lamayuru]

That 'path' is essentially what has existed since India reneged on its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and plebsicite.

Kashmir is the most heavily subsidized state in terms of per-capita expense already is it not? And enjoys special status under the Indian constitution. What more does this 'path' offer?

The answer to that would be quantifying 'what more is required to be offered'? It is a state of happiness to enjoy some Govt largess in a third world country. Besides, there is no restriction on religion, enterprise or culture. Infact the defining idea of India was as an amalgam of many cultures - roughly one culture would be one religion, and here there is a clutch of them, so a vast majority seem to be doing quite OK.

Outside of the broken promise of plebiscite which is a moral dilemma, what gives ? To lead up to the present confrontation? The average God fearing Kashmiri should be atleast as happy in India as he would be in Pakistan if not more. To suggest human rights violations would be putting the cart before the horse, if you know what I mean.

To some guy it may look like the Kashmiris are just looking to pick up a fight at any pretext. So it is down to hooliganism on streets with Amarnath Shrine board etc. People are used to public venting of their anger and taking on the security forces, literally, in a show-us-what-you-got kind of way.

 

[Peshwa]

Any stats indicating the extent of such immigration, or is it just opinion based on a few isolated cases that had no major impact on the demographics?

India in its effort to preserve the Kashmiri's and Kashmir from being diluted has passed Article 370 more.....Same cannot be said about Pakistan.... unless you can show me proof!!....

Besides we all know how easily one can be made "Kashmiri" in the sub-continent....forging papers/birth certificates/ID cards is very common.

So I throw it back to you....how can you prove to us that Pakistani Kashmiri's are actually "Kashmiri"...in fact I am going to go ahead and say that there is a good chance that the "Militant Mujahideen" fighting and infiltrating are not even Kashmiri....they could be Pushtun, Baloch, Punjabi......Do you have any proof except Pakistani propoganda reports to prove that the insurgency is actually "Kashmiri"?

 

[Lamayurugoaway]

What gives? I'll tell you.

The leaders of this so-called movement, who misuse public forums and religous institutions to instill a hostile attitude towards India in general, and Hindus in particular.

 

[Lamayurugoaway]

Of course, these leaders spend half their time in our dear western neighbour. Soaking up the hospitality, as they say.

 

[Lamayurugoaway]

Amazing how much newsprint a tiny 30 by 60 miles of land can generate, thanks to the efforts of our friendly neighbours.

I guess we could have gone the Pakistani way and had the top separatist brass assassinated, but something tells me that would be counterproductive. Maybe its the fact that Balochistan is currentl going up in flames entirely on its own, thanks to some recent high-profile assassinations by the Pakistani intelligence. Good going Pak. Make martyrs out of them, while we in India just hope that they'll eventually die of old age, or if we're lucky, a stress-induced heart attack.

 

[zombie]

1. Gilgit-Baluchistan has not been integrated into Pakistan - merely given autonomy, and since the UNSC resolutions cover it, a plebiscite would be held there as well.

I fail to see what your point about G-B has to do with the Indian denial of the right to self determination for Kashmir mandated by the UN and agreed to by India and Pakistan.

So what prevents Pakistan from having a plebiscite in Gligit-Baltistan? Are you waiting for India's approval? Give them independence you always hypocritically cry for them. Nice way to snap up northen kashmir and prevent giving them their independence in the pretext of inability to grab more land from India.

2. No terrorists have been sent into Kashmir - the insurgents are fighting an Indian occupation, since it is India that has reneged on its commitment to the right of self determination and unilaterally integrated J&K into India.

True that some insurgents have crossed the line and killed innocents, but many more innocents have been raped, tortured and killed by Indian occupation forces.

Good to know that you have proclaimed yourself the judge. Oh and you have given the verdict also. Very amusing indeed.
Terrorism has been used by Pakistan for its goal to grab Kashmir from India. This is the first time state terrorism has been used by a country for dispute with another and Pakistan is even shameless about it. Add to it religious ideology as another tool for political agenda.

As for Indian forces idulging in torture well Pakistan army hasnt been shy from indulging in rape and torture isnt it? One thing the Indian army could learn from Pakistan army is how to bomb entire villages to root out "terrorists".

Frankly neither pakistans nor those vile pieces of thrash who killed / drove away 300,000 of their fellow citizens in the name of religion deserve any pity.

 

[Lamayurugoaway]

^^^^^word. Make that 400,000. Still living as refugees. Nobody cares for them, while these Kashmiris get all the perks and previliges to go out in the street and attack their own police. Bloody brainwashed idiots.

I tell you, this "muslim youth problem" is there throughout the world. There is something seriously wrong with the way Islam is being preached in mosques across the world. This is where the Jehadi mindset stems from. The idea the somehow, muslims are opposed to the society that they live in, that the only way to achieve pure-ness is to eliminate all the kaffir pollutants.

Only a regime-change in the holy land- Saudi Arabia, can put an end to all this bullshit.

 

[lamayuru]

^^^^^word. Make that 400,000. Still living as refugees. Nobody cares for them, while these Kashmiris get all the perks and previliges to go out in the street and attack their own police. Bloody brainwashed idiots.

I tell you, this "muslim youth problem" is there throughout the world. There is something seriously wrong with the way Islam is being preached in mosques across the world. This is where the Jehadi mindset stems from. The idea the somehow, muslims are opposed to the society that they live in, that the only way to achieve pure-ness is to eliminate all the kaffir pollutants.

Only a regime-change in the holy land- Saudi Arabia, can put an end to all this bullshit.

If you want to bring in the regime in Saudi to this thread, then you have to contend with the fact that it is propped up by the US, in the great game for oil. That is a win-win for both US, US Oil refining/marketing companies, US consumer and in fact the global consumer (US can assume some leverage in 'regulating' oil prices downward) & the Saudi royalty. The Saudi experience may also show that a financially rich populace is still vulnerable to firebrand (Wahhabi) Islam. Money may NOT be a cure all.

 

[Lamayurugoaway]

If you want to bring in the regime in Saudi to this thread, then you have to contend with the fact that it is propped up by the US, in the great game for oil. That is a win-win for both US, US Oil refining/marketing companies, US consumer and in fact the global consumer (US can assume some leverage in 'regulating' oil prices downward) & the Saudi royalty. The Saudi experience may also show that a financially rich populace is still vulnerable to firebrand (Wahhabi) Islam. Money may NOT be a cure all.

That's true. The epicenter of radicalism is a US ally. "Irony" is too mild a term to describe such a gigantic fcukup.

 

[lamayuru]

That's true. The epicenter of radicalism is a US ally. "Irony" is too mild a term to describe such a gigantic fcukup.

The epicenter would have to be post Zia Pakistan, that got religion more than its fair share in politics. Saudi/US may have provided the finance and philosophy, but that may be merely grease compared to powerful people in Pakistan that embraced it whole heartedly. Implemented it, institutionalised it & made it state foreign policy. That coupled with Pakistan not being able to rid itself of a feudal society

Chowk: Society: Views of an Indian in Pakistan

may have been chiefly responsible for the large pool of recruits she offers jihadi organisations.

 

[Halaku Khan]

Dear friends, please spare a moment to feel the anguish of those Kashmiris who are being tortured by Jihadis. This thread is dedicated to such stories. I had started this thread before, but it seems to have disappeared! I hope the mods will not censor it.

-----------------------------------
Jihadis slaughter toddler, grandmother


Omar Abdullah sees ‘hypocrisy’ in separatists’ silence over toddler’s killing

July 24th, 2009 - 6:23 pm ICT by ANI

Srinagar, July 24 (ANI): Reacting sharply to the killing of a toddler and his father by Hizbul militants, Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah on Friday termed the silence of separatist leaders over the barbaric killing in Shopian town as “hypocritical”.

“Why are separatist leaders silent on this issue? Where are Yasin Malik and other separatist leaders? This is the worst form of hypocritical politics,” Omar said while

Arif, 3, was killed when his father Aslam Awam was fired upon indiscriminately by Hizbul militants and the toddler was in his lap when the incident took place.

Hizbul Mujahideen were on a lookout for Aslam and had made an attempt on his life on the intervening night of April 14-15 also.

Though he managed to escape death, the militants killed his 60-year-old mother Reshma.

Omar said the separatists would have taken a different stand, if the child had been accidentally killed in firing by security forces. (ANI)

 

[vsdoc]

Any declaration ..... official or not ..... from the Indian side, would or would not come after the side which started the hostilities first in 1947 first unilaterally withdrew all forces and "players" from the part of kashmir they usurped first.

In financial ledger as well as supply chain management terms its called FIFO .... First In, First Out.

Cheers, Doc