Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Abu Zolfiqar]

ah....so it is about Kashmiri peoples too, not merely the lands?

We have a sane indian here! Red alert, red alert!

 

[Skeptic]

My friend I was as wrong as you were with the UN thing, since it was a recommendation and nothing concrete.

And Pakistan's ex-Foreign Minister Mr. Kasuri has acknowledged that Pakistan and India were very close to declaring Kashmir an autonomous region however change of govt stalled the procedure and Mumbai Incident finished all prospects of it ever happening.

No Sir, I always maintained a single view - UN resolution have no provisions for independent Kashmir. Infact the whole basis for the resolution was:

Noting with satisfaction that both India and Pakistan desire that the question of the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan should be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite,

And provision for:

The Government of India should undertake that there will be established in Jammu and Kashmir a Plebiscite Administration to hold a Plebiscite as soon as possible on the question of the accession of the State to India or Pakistan . including, for that purpose only, the direction and supervision of the State forces and police

Also read other resolutions in follow-up to this one. Several objections were raised by either sides but never was option of independence ever suggested by Pakistan.

Also the Musharraf formula revolved around making the border porous and maintaining Indian and Pakistani Kashmir. I am not sure exact formula has ever been revealed - but it probability of it including provision for independence is questionable at best.

 

[Icarus]

Can we create conditions in which we are helding plebiscite and not being unfair to India, Pakistan and People of Kashmir??? Let me highlight the complexities and would appreciate if someone can share their thoughts

- Part of Kashmir acceeded to China by Pak.

Which part ? I remember Pakistan being given parts of Gilgit-Baltistan by China in the border talks after 62 war but not the other way around.

- Pakistani citizens living in P-O-K. How to identify them and send them back to Pak??

Pakistanis do not have permission to buy/rent/lease any land/property or building in Kashmir, so that shouldn't be a problem.

- Kashmiri Pandits living in exile

I'm sure they are not that large a number.

- Demilitarization of Kashmir - Complete pull back by Pak and minimum level by India

Quite possible if UN troops from neutral countries are stationed there.

 

[deckingraj]

The only reason we don't go to an international forum to discuss freedom for Kashmir is because we are bound not to by the Simla Accord. Talks with India over freedom for kashmir have been initiated various times but ended without any thing of substance being agreed upon.

On the contrary Pakistan has always try to get international community to intervene for resolution of Kashmir.....

Your last piece of information is incorrect, if such was the case then Gilgit-Baltistan would not have been a member of the Unrepresented nations Council.

I am sorry can you please shed more light on it...Based on my discussion with many seniors around here official stand of Pakistan is that Gilgit-Baltistan is not part of Jammu and Kashmir...There have been very very lengthy discussion in which Indian members tried to prove that Gilgil-Baltistan is also conflicted land and is part of Jammu and Kashmir....regarding your comment i will first like to understand the exact position before sharing thoughts....

 

[Icarus]

On the contrary Pakistan has always try to get international community to intervene for resolution of Kashmir.....

We have called for intervention as in the recent rounds of violence in kashmir but that is far from discussing the matter on an international forum.

I am sorry can you please shed more light on it...Based on my discussion with many seniors around here official stand of Pakistan is that Gilgit-Baltistan is not part of Jammu and Kashmir...There have been very very lengthy discussion in which Indian members tried to prove that Gilgil-Baltistan is also conflicted land and is part of Jammu and Kashmir....regarding your comment i will first like to understand the exact position before sharing thoughts....

My pleasure, many people do not consider GB as a part of Azad Kashmir since the people there did not consider themselves such as well. They maintained that since they had secured freedom for themselves through rebellion against Maharaja Hari Singh and were not liberated by the Pathan tribes or the Army, they should be treated as a part of Pakistan even though the international community stated otherwise, it was for this very reason that last year, they were given the status of a Pakistani territory. Now, many bordering regions of GB had been Chinese governed till 62, however in a bid to build trust they listened to Pakistan and returned areas historically parts of GB back to GB.

 

[justanobserver]

Which part ? I remember Pakistan being given parts of Gilgit-Baltistan by China in the border talks after 62 war but not the other way around.

The Trans-Karakoram Tract

In the 1950s Pakistan became concerned that Chinese maps showed areas of Pakistan in China. In 1961 Ayub Khan sent a formal Note to China, and a year later China proposed a provisional agreement, subject to final resolution of the Kashmir dispute. Negotiations resulted in an agreement signed on 2 March 1963. The agreement resulted in China withdrawing from about 750 sq m of territory, and Pakistan abandoning its claim to about 2,050 sq m of territory

 

[TextMiner]

You have to really have your head buried under the ground to have missed the amount of statements against India.

The thing is, India has NEVER been criticized before. Not in the terms its being criticized now, as a tyrant, as brutal, as undemocratic and not with the frequency as it is now.

There is no gun fire against Indian security forces, its stones, kicks and slaps. India can't play the victim card any more.

Do you know why the West is mum over the current situation in Kashmir ? The current turmoil in Pakistan. The West thinks that by lending voice to Kashmiri self-determination will cause anarchy in yet another part of the world, and very soon we will see Kashmir turning into another FATA. And though we see Media reporting on Kashmir frequently crying hoarse (i would dare to say even the Western media) over Indian "brutality", no government in the West has come out openly to condemn this, since they believe that Indian democracy is a far better option to help Kashmiris in their cause of greater autonomy. Thus, the decision is with GoI and hence the ball is in GoI's court.

 

[Donatello]

India deploys more troops in Kashmir

New Delhi has deployed hundreds of additional troops to Indian-administered Kashmir in a bid to quell deadly protests in the disputed Himalayan region.


The deployment comes after troops once again fired on pro-independence protesters, killing two and injuring 16 on Friday.

Security forces say they had to resort force to disperse stone-throwing protesters in the central Budgam district, a Press TV correspondent reported.

Kashmir residents defied the curfew in Srinagar and other major towns, pelting security forces with stones.

Kashmiris say the curfew, which has been in place for six consecutive days, has prevented them from getting food and other necessities.

Top separatist leader, Seyyed Ali Geelani, has called on people to block Indian army camps with sit-in protests.

"I have urged people to stage peaceful sit-in protests in front of army and security force camps in Kashmir," Geelani told reporters in Srinagar on Thursday.

Since early June, violent street protests and crackdowns have left nearly 100 people dead.

New Delhi has been repeatedly criticized for resorting to force rather than finding a diplomatic solution to the issue.

Pakistan has accused India of "brutality" and condemned its deadly crackdown on protestors.

"Pakistan strongly condemns the brutality and the blatant use of force by Indian security forces," said Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi.

Both Islamabad and New Delhi claim the region in full, but rule over parts of it and have fought two wars over Kashmir.

JR/HGH/MMN

PressTV - India deploys more troops in Kashmir

This is really sad because India calls Kashmir it's part and then puts force onto these innocent people.

Compare Bombay, Bangalore, Kolkata with Srinagar and you'll know what i mean.

 

[hahahaha]

This is really sad because India calls Kashmir it's part and then puts force onto these innocent people.

Compare Bombay, Bangalore, Kolkata with Srinagar and you'll know what i mean.

People in these cities don't come on road and use non violence way of protesting.. They live in much more harmony and without infiltration from our dearest neighbour...

 

[deckingraj]

Which part ? I remember Pakistan being given parts of Gilgit-Baltistan by China in the border talks after 62 war but not the other way around.

Trans-Karakoram Tract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a understanding b/w Pakistan and China, though not sure on what basis they signed it since Pakistan(as suggested by people here) does not consider Azad Kashmir as pakistan territory....Anyways India do not recognize this understanding, so in essence this land belongs to Jammu and Kashmit and plebiscite should include it, right???

Pakistanis do not have permission to buy/rent/lease any land/property or building in Kashmir, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I must say i have a very different understanding....Can you please throw some more light on it??? I am under the impression that unlike Indians ordianry pakistan can settle in P-O-K....

I'm sure they are not that large a number.

Yes, however we cannot ignore them, right??? I am sure you would like to include everybody for plebiscite, no???

Quite possible if UN troops from neutral countries are stationed there.

What??? BUt was this promised when Nehru asked for plebiscite(it was Nehru's promise because of which Kashmir case if different from rest of India during partition)?? If not then why are we putting in more conditions now???

 

[NWO]

And though we see Media reporting on Kashmir frequently crying hoarse (i would dare to say even the Western media) over Indian "brutality", no government in the West has come out openly to condemn this, since they believe that Indian democracy is a far better option to help Kashmiris in their cause of greater autonomy. Thus, the decision is with GoI and hence the ball is in GoI's court.

I agree that India has more leverage on the international stage, but that isn't due to any 'Indian democracy' or something similar. It's because Pakistan is viewed more of a terrorist country then India.

As for the Kashmir issue, I never knew anyone who really gave damn about it here in US so I don't know how it's been 'internalized'.

 

[deckingraj]

We have called for intervention as in the recent rounds of violence in kashmir but that is far from discussing the matter on an international forum.

Sorry but you have raised this issue in various international forums with many appeals to US for intervention......Even now Kureshi has asked international community to step in....

My pleasure, many people do not consider GB as a part of Azad Kashmir since the people there did not consider themselves such as well. They maintained that since they had secured freedom for themselves through rebellion against Maharaja Hari Singh and were not liberated by the Pathan tribes or the Army, they should be treated as a part of Pakistan even though the international community stated otherwise, it was for this very reason that last year, they were given the status of a Pakistani territory. Now, many bordering regions of GB had been Chinese governed till 62, however in a bid to build trust they listened to Pakistan and returned areas historically parts of GB back to GB.

Thanks for the explanation...So i am sure you would have held some plebiscite there to find out what actually the people of Gilgit and Baltistan wan't....Secondly did you consider what people of Kashmir think about it??? Since you yourself said that International community consider Gilgit Baltistan as part of Jammu and Kashmir so whenever plebiscite occur will it be fair to not consider GB as part of Kashmir???

Do you see how complex plebiscite would be to conduct???

 

[FreekiN]

You know the population of the people influenced by the pact, right?

It was 0.

That's why Pakistan was so reluctant to give it away and make a friend.

As for the "Pakistan supporting Independent Kashmir" part, what's wrong with that?

 

[karan.1970]

You have to really have your head buried under the ground to have missed the amount of statements against India.

The thing is, India has NEVER been criticized before. Not in the terms its being criticized now, as a tyrant, as brutal, as undemocratic and not with the frequency as it is now.

There is no gun fire against Indian security forces, its stones, kicks and slaps. India can't play the victim card any more.

Asim

Looks like your news is coming in from a parallel universe. Even Pakistan made a tangible statement only yesterday. Get over it. No one's rattled by what's happening in Kashmir.. At least no one who matters. And you know why.. Because most of the parties that matter have accepted the fact that its India's internal matter.

 

[Skeptic]

As for the "Pakistan supporting Independent Kashmir" part, what's wrong with that?

the wrong part is that it is a misnormer. There is actually no support for independent kashmir from pakistan while some pakistanis claim it to be there.
They attempt to hold the moral high ground that we support the cause of freedom to lure kashmiris and score brownie points while it is never backed up by any action. Pls go thru the thread if u need further info.