Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[JanjaWeed]

No no...you didn't get what i was trying to say

Kashmir was pretty much very well discussed internationally even, say, 5-6 years ago. But things are perhaps changing now as far as that 'international spotlight' is concerned.

i don't think i will agree with that entirely. It was always mentioned internationally & off late it was mentioned by recognisable faces. i e.. obama during his presidential campaign & only in september last year libyan leader gaddafi mentioned about this at U N podium. It's just that India doesn't give two hoots to who says what when it comes to Kashmir!!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

they are more than just angry and have no other alternatives except to resist the occupation

Pakistan stands by Kashmir and Kashmiris 24/7. It's too bad there arent more hours in a day. We will continue our moral, diplomatic and other support for our Kashmiri bretheren.

 

[DGMO]

Perhaps time to explore the Musharraf formula again, it appeared to satisfy many on both sides, though at this point the Kashmiris will have to be involved as well IMO.

I think that is the best and most realistic solution to the dispute. It had backers both sides, and as you say, needs Kashmiri's involved also this time around.

 

[foxbat]

If the Indian govt. and people are not listening to their just demand for independence then probably they will pick up guns and next time it may be a grenade!

BTW, Bhaghat Singh and Raj Guru blew a few grenades in the Legislative Assembly and they are heros so these Kashmiris are also heros for standing up to a brutal occupying force!

Go to the "Pro Freedom Insurgents vs Indian army" thread to see whats happeneing to the ones with guns and grenades..

On Bhagat Singh etc, there are some explosions happening outside of India's borders as well in the neighbourhood. Are there more Bhagat Singhs in making there too??

 

[Leviza]

Please do not tax your brain. We will do our thinking for ourselves.Having flags of two countries & waving a third does not constitute internationalisation of the Kashmir issue. We are not in the habit of allowing others to decide what exactly is in our interest.

Well Kashmir is a Disputed land and ..... I have all the right to say/think about Kashmir as you do.....

So stop saying bad things to me and its not jsut your problem. its a humanity issue in Kashmir and I will stand against it in any form i can...

If you cant think of anything then stop posting against me....
typical indian person

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You were never in your senses, when we gave substantial proof that Mumbai perpetrators were from Pakistan, you called them non-state actors.

*ahem*

did somebody call my name???

by the way, they were obviously non-state actors since their actions were not in line with the views or aspirations of the Pakistani govt.

Almost 2 years on and some numb-skulls are still confused on this very basic matter. The proof was obviously not substantial enough (beyond reasonable doubt) for our courts to deem the arrest of certain individuals as legal or justifiable

By the way there is much we can do in kashmir and we are not doing it.

killing 75 people/day as opposed to 18? Numbers are numbers --the sentiments remain the same. Though larger numbers mean more spread out ''enemies'' and ''terrorists'' being created due to hindustan's spectacularly FAILED approach to Kashmir and Kashmiris.


BBC News - Kashmir voices: 'We are angry'

And about killing innocent kashmiri?, you dont worry about that,

oh yes we will! You better believe it.

The day day they allowed themselves to be brain washed and protested against India, they lost that "Innocent" tag.

that day was over 60 years ago.....you reap what you sow

Kashmir is Indian property, Iam not talking abt all kashmir but whatever we hold.

whatever you ''hold'' (artificially) is where all the bloodshed, oppression and chaos is occurring.


your PM singh says (verbatim) that he is “shocked and distressed to see young men and women — even children —joining the protests on the streets,”

this is no new phenomenon; these are all locals protesting against atrocities and occupation being waged on them --and being facilitated by draconian laws such as the AFSPA




''worlds largest democracy''

 

[DGMO]

In answer to the original question I'd say 'yes' to a large extent. Of course it will get exposure and coverage in the international media etc, but in terms of diplomatic criticism, then that is profoundly muted.

I think we need to also look at Kashmir and the way it's slipped on the international stage and consciousness through the prism of 9/11, and more recently 26/11.

India hit the PR jackpot when it coined the simple but devastatingly effective term: cross-border terrorism.

In the eyes of the West, and with the shadow of 9/11 hanging over their thought process, the spectre of 'terrorists crossing borders to kill and injure' resonated spectacularly.

We as Pakistani's were always on the backfoot following that, as it was universally agreed that there could be 'no excuse or justification for the killing of innocents'.

So by coining that term, India IMO took a great deal of heat away from Kashmir, moving it away from a 'indigineous freedom struggle', to one which was stoked by external terrorists.

We were always on a sticky wicket after that, and slowly but surely India has consolidated its internal grip on the problem.

Under Musharraf's time, major positive moves were made, so with tension reduced between the armies, this doesn't grab the international limelight it used to. The fear was always of Kashmir being a 'nuclear flashpoint', and its chances of acting as one have been effectively diminished.

 

[Patrician]

they are more than just angry and have no other alternatives except to resist the occupation

Pakistan stands by Kashmir and Kashmiris 24/7.

Ya...standing...on crutches...please do not take this as a derogatory remark. I only want to bring to your mind the sorry state your country is in because of people who thought pretty much like you. This is the truth...sad...sorry...but the truth...naked truth.

1. Pakistan's economy
2. Internal security
3. Political stability

Tell me my friend, which one of these is not standing on crutches?

How do you guys find enough time to even think of Kashmir? What problem in the world (from terrorism to political instability to natural disaster) do you not have?

Your apathy to your own problems and the pain caused to your people (many of them are homeless because of such sad and devastating floods and many have lost their loved ones because of terrorism) by them is simply disgusting

For example take , everyday there of 4-5 new threads opening on kashmiris and their protests, gloating, and masochistically deriving pleasure in your neighbors pain as it struggles with its achilles' heel.

People and in fact and most importantly Pakistanis themselves seem to have forgotton the plight of millions of people who have been affected by the worst natural disaster in your history.

You guys seem to have 'moved on'...

We will continue our moral, diplomatic and other support for our Kashmiri bretheren.

That 'other support' is the very reason why you guys are in the sorry state of affairs you are in.

Cmon, come out of that Zia-Ul-Haq induced theological utopia.

You should be thinking about those who have lost their everything because of the floos instead of Kashmiris who are pretty much very well off comparably and here you are lamenting how small the number of hours a day has!

This is disgusting...have you no respect for the man on the street who lost his life because of a natural disaster which your govt. has proved to be incapable to handle after so many years of criminal neglect of economy and public welfare?

Do not think of this post as "An Indian ranting out at a Pakistani."

Think of it as "A fellow human being reminding you to be human first."

Regards,

Peace

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

if i slip, fall and injure my ankle -- does it mean that I should not report to work? Does it mean I should lay in bed, sulking like a little sissy?

No, it doesn't.


it's a common and standard hindustany reaction to either

a.) bring up non-issues

or

b.) as of late, bring up floods or political situation in Pakistan



a very flawed, and immature way to approach the argument. Therefore, I will dismiss your post as ''garbage'' before even having read it in its entirety.



try again shortly

 

[Patrician]

if i slip, fall and injure my ankle -- does it mean that I should not report to work? Does it mean I should lay in bed, sulking like a little sissy?

No, it doesn't.

Yes it does. Yes it does if that ankle is bleeding soooo heavily that it puts your life in jeopardy. Such are the desperate times when ensuring survival becomes most important and everything else must take a backseat.

But no, why would you listen? After all I'm an Indian and you are a Pakistani. You would not listen to me even if you were drowning and I were to tell you the secret which could save your life.

it's a common and standard hindustany reaction to either

a.) bring up non-issues

or

b.) as of late, bring up floods or political situation in Pakistan



a very flawed, and immature way to approach the argument. Therefore, I will dismiss your post as ''garbage'' before even having read it in its entirety.



try again shortly

Regular India/Indian-bashing which I see pointless to reply to.

 

[nForce]

Yes there is a difference Between the way I & you think.I said you to choose one option from the three & when you saw that your point have been proved wrong.you started to derail the debate & turned away from the point by posting facts & figures.

You use Facts & Figures when you see that there is no air left in your point & you use Facts & figures to distort from your stance smartly.

Well nothing new this behaviour is very common in majority of Indian population on Internet.And this behaviour show up when they see similar situation like you.

Now tell me what these facts & figures have to do with Situation in "Indian Occupied Kashmir" & the States of India.

Now if you will look thoroughly at your post you will see that you yourself has denied the fact that unemployment is an issue.

You said that Kashmiris were well employed in the past & there was no issue of miliitancy it just started in90's.
Now if kashmiris were so called Well employed,Well earned happily living people & the militancy started in 90's then What caused that militancy??? .
If there was no problem of unemployment then why kashmiris started the Independence movement against India.
Why they turned against the Indian Occupation???
Ever thought about that

You will never answer this question but the answer of this question is that unemployment is not an issue in kashmir.The cause of this movement is Ideology.They can earn by even living in Indian occupation BUT they dont want to live under Indian occupation,Under Indian brutalities because they want to join another nation which is very similar to them.They share comon beliefs, common culture & are very own to them.
So my friend this is called Ideology & this is the isssue in kashmir.
I am glad that you yourself have proved your point wrong

Now it is pretty obvious that we think quite differently.As a matter of fact thinking is not something which can be called your area of expertise,let alone understanding Economics and the figures.

Your points are pretty much invalid to begin with,as you draw your own assumptions with that.Your points go invalid at this very point.You just assume way too much.While I shared the facts that pretty much speak for themselves.
The state of Jammu and Kashmir has been troubled with militancy for a long period of time.Local trouble makers like the separatists have aided further into that trouble not to mention the employment of cross border terrorism as a state policy by Pakistan.The present President as well as the previous dictator of Pakistan have admitted to this,so no point in denying again the facts.

All these issues have seriously deprived the state off development and opportunities of employment.
I had mentioned before that some youth,who were engaged in stone pelting the day before,were also seen in army recruitment camps the next day.That tells so much about their ideology and desperation.

I have also mentioned that unemployment in India,which is almost at-per with developed countries like USA and much less than Pakistan,is not evenly distributed.It is much higher in Jammu and Kashmir.I hope that answers to pretty much of your points.

Here they are

Pakistan is at no 10?? Thats a bit of surpise. I was kind of expecting it to be 50-55

Quoting this phrase pretty much shows how much your mind can actually comprehend.Does the word surprise mean anything to you??You seriously surprised me this time with your thinking capability.Being surprised does not imply either agreement or disagreement.To be honest,I didnt expect Pakistan to be in such a bad shape,but then the agencies in force have done quite a bit of job their it seems.....

Are you so much brain washed by your BIASIN Media that you didn't hasitate a bit from stepping away from your stance.Or i think you guys can do EACH & EVERY THING when it comes to trolling

Do you actually know that Indian media is one of the most free media in the World,which has indeed significantly contributed to the development by showing us where actually is our fault and which mistake we need to rectify.We dont have anybody like Zaid Hamid in Indian media preaching hate,vandalism and radicalism.Here we have educated and sober journalists like Barkha Dutt and Pranab Roy.

About bold part Why we should'nt rejoice.
We are right now concerning about ourselves but they are the one who are more concerned about ourselves.
Kashmiris & Pakistanis are a family.
They always struggle hard to be a part of us & Only people who consider other people family or part of their own goes to such extent of even after knowing that their other family members are in trouble thay still want to join with them.


Only people who consider some people family members or part of thier own do Such a struggle like this to join their family members so that they can together fight the problems faced by their family.

Now when we have family members like this why should we concern about our problems.Once we will complete our family we will fight the problems together & with Unity.

Do you know,it was these very Kashmiris who informed the Indian Army of militant invasion back in 1948.It was again these Kashmiri shepherds who informed the Indian army about intrusion by Pakistani infiltrators at Kargil in 1999.That tells so much about the general consensus and the idea of brotherhood.

As a matter of fact,some Pakistanis are delusional about this idea of brotherhood.They tried to be close to the Americans,but now these Americans are pounding Pakistani areas with their jets.Pakistanis tried to be close to the Arabs and even sent fighter-pilots against the Israelis.But they never came to return the favour.The Pakistanis think of the Chinese as brothers.But they never came to their rescue during the all 4 wars.You now think of Kashmiris as brothers,but then the Pakistani infiltrators were spotted by Kashmiris only and they took a beating in the hands of JAKLI,again raised from Jammu and Kashmir.

By the way
The change is written on the wall.
& its only in the betterment of you people of realising it soon otherwise you people have to suffer the consequences.

The change is pretty much obvious as we can see it.....While India is well on her path to be a global power,with relations all over the World and second fastest growing economy,Pakistan already features in the Top 10 of the Failed state list,with Forex reserves hitting a low of US $ 8 billion with external debt almost 8 times of it and very less or no means to pay it off in any near future.

Regarding facing consequences,at first you deal with the mess that your country has created(The Taliban),then you may be in a position to talk about that.The land of my country is not being pounded by a foreign air force,but yours is,as we speak.......

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

India’s State Terrorism​

Indian brutality in Occupied Kashmir once again came to the fore when its security forces shot and killed sixteen [edit - eighteen] innocent Kashmiris who were in the streets protesting the Quran burning plan of an American priest and the actual desecration by some Christian extremists outside the White House.

These protestors were armed with nothing more than stones, but the targeting of the Kashmiri youth by the Indian security forces has been part of the state terrorism unleashed by India, since June this year, against yet another generation of Kashmiris seeking freedom from Indian Occupation.

While the Indian leadership goes through the farce of expressing regret over these killings and declares the need to address the grievances of the Kashmiri people, the killings by Indian security forces cannot be taking place without the approval of the same leadership.

Unfortunately, the Pakistan government has shown a bizarre muteness on this latest bout of Indian killings in Occupied Kashmir. There is a new indigenous uprising with a new youthful leadership that has now taken up the Kashmiri cause for liberation from Indian Occupation and for their right of self determination as committed to them by Nehru and the UNSC.

Even the women have now come onto the streets and it is evident that despite Indian efforts to subdue the Kashmiris for over six decades the Kashmiris continue to pass the torch of their freedom struggle from one generation to the next.

Only after the killings on Monday did Pakistan officially condemn Indian barbarism and asked the international community to stop these killings. But Pakistan can and should do more.

It can freeze any moves on dialogue, cut off all access to Indian goods coming into Pakistan from vegetables to cotton, as well as the visas regime to get its message across of its foremost commitment to the Kashmir cause.

If our policy is to give all moral, political and diplomatic support to the Kashmir struggle then we should do so on all these fronts. We should also move the OIC, ineffective though it may be but it can exert some diplomatic pressure on India.

We have tended to ignore the latest intifada in Indian Occupied Kashmir – much to our shame – primarily at the behest of the US but also because of the questionable proclivities of our leadership.

It is time to alter course and expose Indian terrorist designs in Occupied Kashmir. India of course has begun a multi-track propaganda for damage limitation including denying access to the media in Occupied Kashmir.

A most devious part of this is the so-called poll by an Indian newspaper that claims to reveal that most Kashmiris favour independence and not joining Pakistan. We should see through such propagandist views and stick to our principled position of the right of self-determination for the Kashmir people which is the only way they can make clear what they want.

But it is already clear what they do not want – and generations of Kashmiris have sacrificed their lives to demonstrate this fact – and that is to remain under Indian Occupation.

India’s state terrorism | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

 

[Speaker]

In answer to the original question I'd say 'yes' to a large extent. Of course it will get exposure and coverage in the international media etc, but in terms of diplomatic criticism, then that is profoundly muted.

I think we need to also look at Kashmir and the way it's slipped on the international stage and consciousness through the prism of 9/11, and more recently 26/11.

India hit the PR jackpot when it coined the simple but devastatingly effective term: cross-border terrorism.

In the eyes of the West, and with the shadow of 9/11 hanging over their thought process, the spectre of 'terrorists crossing borders to kill and injure' resonated spectacularly.

We as Pakistani's were always on the backfoot following that, as it was universally agreed that there could be 'no excuse or justification for the killing of innocents'.

So by coining that term, India IMO took a great deal of heat away from Kashmir, moving it away from a 'indigineous freedom struggle', to one which was stoked by external terrorists.

We were always on a sticky wicket after that, and slowly but surely India has consolidated its internal grip on the problem.

Under Musharraf's time, major positive moves were made, so with tension reduced between the armies, this doesn't grab the international limelight it used to. The fear was always of Kashmir being a 'nuclear flashpoint', and its chances of acting as one have been effectively diminished.

Well you are giving a back-handed compliment, but the fact remains that India merely reacted smartly to what was happening. Cross-border terrorism charges cannot be denied, and 26/11 originated in Pakistan, regardless of whether they were state actors or not.

I don't want to start a fresh debate, but the Kashmiri "ethnic" struggle is limited to the muslims in the valley, and the rest of it was actually stoked by external extremists - calling them terrorists might be slightly overboard.

 

[Bang Galore]

Well Kashmir is a Disputed land and ..... I have all the right to say/think about Kashmir as you do.....

Who's stopping you? People having saying stuff for the last 63 years & it hasn't made an iota of difference to us. You however pretended to speak for India's interests with a mandatory line of improving the lot on the footpath. Don't be under any illusion that such comments will go unanswered.

So stop saying bad things to me and its not jsut your problem. its a humanity issue in Kashmir and I will stand against it in any form i can...

You can stand, sit or do anything you want. We Indians could not care less. I haven't said anything "bad" about you nor am I inclined to do so. just not my style.

If you cant think of anything then stop posting against me...

.

Can think of plenty but I haven't the interest or the inclination to do so.

typical indian person

What did you expect? My flags point that out & I consider your remark of being a typical Indian high praise!

 

[Dash]

*ahem*

did somebody call my name???

by the way, they were obviously non-state actors since their actions were not in line with the views or aspirations of the Pakistani govt.

Almost 2 years on and some numb-skulls are still confused on this very basic matter. The proof was obviously not substantial enough (beyond reasonable doubt) for our courts to deem the arrest of certain individuals as legal or justifiable

I didnt call your name, but Iam sure ur name is not unique, there are many

As per evidence is concerned, the world knows it, you are a Cat who is drinking milk with closed eyes thinks no body is watching it
And Numb skulls???, looks like you have a bigger % of numb skulls.
We have shown it to the world, did any one retun in favor of you. No one...We got what we wanted..

killing 75 people/day as opposed to 18? Numbers are numbers --the sentiments remain the same. Though larger numbers mean more spread out ''enemies'' and ''terrorists'' being created due to hindustan's spectacularly FAILED approach to Kashmir and Kashmiris.

We killed 75 Anti- Indians. Good kashmiries are still with us. No one is above a country, be it a child mother or father. Even our soldiers die!.

oh yes we will! You better believe it.

That doesnt change the reality and the reality is is Kahmir is an integral part of India. Cry until your eys get cold.

that day was over 60 years ago.....you reap what you sow

Who is reaping and who is sawing in actually visible, the world is blind to what is happening in Kashmir, We are not bothered abt you.

whatever you ''hold'' (artificially) is where all the bloodshed, oppression and chaos is occurring

And you were gifted Kashmir by the almighty????...

your PM singh says (verbatim) that he is “shocked and distressed to see young men and women — even children —joining the protests on the streets,”

He is a good man, and his words translates to peace, which you wont understand.

this is no new phenomenon; these are all locals protesting against atrocities and occupation being waged on them --and being facilitated by draconian laws such as the AFSPA

All locals???, stastically poor analysis.

''worlds largest democracy''

No one changes this, we are. We can kill also. Not the communits way, not the barbarian way, but the democratic way, Mindfully killing those who is against the nation, we had the rights, we have the rights and we will use the right in years to come....